RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops.

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 3:47:11 PM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

Some of the responses on this thread say it all..

I don't think it matters all that much. Back in the 20th century everyone loved American culture and they were the good guys, the buddies.

But Iraq, Afghanistan and the ever increasing popularity of the Internet all over the world (and yes, people all over the world can read this section and get to know how Americans interact with one another online) has revealed a darker side to American culture and society which before lay hidden.

And these are written words, all recorded on a medium which is searchable.

The first ten years of this century will cost Americans dearly and will continue to blight further generations of Americans.

If you are in the States and love your children and grandchildren, I strongly advise you to take this into consideration and think about it.

Think about the culture and history that you are creating.

Because things like this will be recorded and I would hate them to be remembered in history.

For your sakes.,

< Message edited by stellauk -- 1/12/2012 3:48:20 PM >

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 101

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 3:54:03 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivineDemise

There are things that happen like this & more in every war & on all sides. The media needs the hype & ratings so they chastise a few without telling the full story. When people are st war the worse comes out of them, it doesnt make them a bad person but the war itself can. The media really needs to be censored more on what is allowed.

This strikes me as the worst possible response. It is only by continually exposing bad behaviour such as this incident that such behaviour will be eradicated.

For far too long people have used the excuse "all's fair in war" to justify barbarity. It doesn't. If in doubt, ask any death camp survivor. The West claims its privilege because of the operation of democratic values and the undiscriminating rule of law - because of its values.

When those values are pissed on by those doing the fighting, the fight is effectively lost and the entire effort is nothing more than an indefensible waste of time, money and lives. It is as Aswad has pointed out, treasonous. When we turn a blind eye to bad behaviour by our troops - people authorised by us to act in our name and on our behalf - we have reduced ourselves to savages.

It is not the case that war is a moral vacuum. It is the case that our toleration of war as a moral vacuum turns us into moral vacuums. Is that where any one wants to go?

Tweak, we shouldn't be turning a blind eye to bad politically correct behavior either, do you want to be reduced to a savage?
The problem (in the U.S. anyway) is how do we get the mainstream media to expose people like that when we have such an awful president in the W.H. who's testicles they'd lick to just get a parting glance from?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 102

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 3:57:25 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

But Iraq, Afghanistan and the ever increasing popularity of the Internet all over the world (and yes, people all over the world can read this section and get to know how Americans interact with one another online) has revealed a darker side to American culture and society which before lay hidden.

Bull... our culture is yours....In fact there is no difference in the vulgarities of war...All civilizations have and will repeat these types of behavior. It is part of our nature... not just the US. It is only our free press and availability of media devices like cell phone video that is the difference from wars of the past.

I wish folks would get off their high horses in thinking that their country or soldiers are any different then mine.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 103

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 3:57:54 PM

DivineDemise

Posts: 95
Joined: 1/7/2012
From: West Memphis,Ark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

What backstory could possibly have excused this?!?

The only thing I can think of is 9/11 which isnt a good excuse in my eyes. I wish I knew what causes a person to be vile but I dont. Also has anyone thought of the idea that these soliders may have been under order to do this? I have a friend who was deployed to Iraq in the begining. When he returned he was a shell of who I used to know. He told me of various things that made me sick. Most of these things was by order pf his C/O it was do it or face consequences. They are hyped up & told its their job to do certain things. Maybe these soliders didnt want to but was to afraid to refuse.

_____________________________

Behind every beautiful thing, there's some kind of pain.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 104

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:04:02 PM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

But Iraq, Afghanistan and the ever increasing popularity of the Internet all over the world (and yes, people all over the world can read this section and get to know how Americans interact with one another online) has revealed a darker side to American culture and society which before lay hidden.

Bull... our culture is yours....In fact there is no difference in the vulgarities of war...All civilizations have and will repeat these types of behavior. It is part of our nature... not just the US. It is only our free press and availability of media devices like cell phone video that is the difference from wars of the past.

I wish folks would get off their high horses in thinking that their country or soldiers are any different then mine.

Butch

But you haven't got our diplomats, and that's usually a major difference.

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 105

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:04:51 PM

DivineDemise

Posts: 95
Joined: 1/7/2012
From: West Memphis,Ark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bull... our culture is yours....In fact there is no difference in the vulgarities of war...All civilizations have and will repeat these types of behavior. It is part of our nature... not just the US. It is only our free press and availability of media devices like cell phone video that is the difference from wars of the past.

I wish folks would get off their high horses in thinking that their country or soldiers are any different then mine.

Butch

My point exactly. Its not just the U.S who has done such things many others have & worse. For instance Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Saddam. However media wants to put it off on one & not others.

_____________________________

Behind every beautiful thing, there's some kind of pain.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 106

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:08:00 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivineDemise
The only thing I can think of is 9/11 which isnt a good excuse in my eyes. I wish I knew what causes a person to be vile but I dont. Also has anyone thought of the idea that these soliders may have been under order to do this? I have a friend who was deployed to Iraq in the begining. When he returned he was a shell of who I used to know. He told me of various things that made me sick. Most of these things was by order pf his C/O it was do it or face consequences. They are hyped up & told its their job to do certain things. Maybe these soliders didnt want to but was to afraid to refuse.

A defense that didn't work at Nuremburg or My lai.

Soldiers are only required to follow lawful orders. A soldier is obligated to disobey (and report) any order that is in violation of the UCMJ, The Geneva conventions, and common human decency.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to DivineDemise)

Post #: 107

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:11:30 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Well, hold on there puffnstuff,. it did work at Mai Lai (cuz them were americans on americans) soon as it faded headlines Calley was a free man. Not that his BOQ arrest was the end of time for him either for those three years.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 108

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:11:48 PM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Polite Sub,...."more dangerous?" How they gonna do that, shoot them 18 times instead of 12?
And being in the military *is* an honorable endeavor.
Didn't you Brits used to draw and quarter the enemy?

Slow down tiger, I never said being in the army is dishonourable, which you should have noticed when reading my OP.

As for making things more dangerous, I am really surprised that you cant see how this latest act will encourage more to side with the Taliban. That clearly makes it more dangerous for the other troops still in the field.

We Brits used to draw and quarter each other back in the day, hung drawn and quatered was reserved for those charged with treason, but what`s that got to do with anything ?

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 109

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:14:35 PM

wittynamehere

Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Each and every incident is like a recruiting ad for the Taliban and endangers all the decent and brave troops (the majority) serving in Afghanistan.

These guys are paid to brutalize, terrorize, control, injure, and kill brown human beings for a living. That's what they do. That's why we call them "brave and decent", courageous, noble, patriotic, etc.
But when they act immature and pee on those they've terrorized and killed, we say it went too far.
I say it went too far when we hired them to terrorize and kill their fellow man.

_____________________________

I almost never return to a thread, so if you saw my post and want me to hear your reply, please message it to me.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 110

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:16:55 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

The grip on history is just as lousy as the grip on facts.
loose and messy

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 111

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:17:19 PM

DivineDemise

Posts: 95
Joined: 1/7/2012
From: West Memphis,Ark
Status: offline

True however many wont report it. Just like with countless rape cases. Alot of people feel reporting wil cause more issues than needed. Then the ones in wrong have built a cockyness knowing they can get away with it & cycle continues.

_____________________________

Behind every beautiful thing, there's some kind of pain.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 112

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:18:27 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, hold on there puffnstuff,. it did work at Mai Lai (cuz them were americans on americans) soon as it faded headlines Calley was a free man. Not that his BOQ arrest was the end of time for him either for those three years.

quote:

ORIGINAL Wikipedia
The events in My Lai had initially been covered up by local divisional command. In April 1969, nearly thirteen months after the massacre, a G.I. who had been with the 11th Brigade wrote letters to the President, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense. In these letters the G.I. described some of the atrocities by the soldiers at My Lai, that he had been told about.

Calley was charged on September 5, 1969, with six specifications of premeditated murder for the deaths of 104 Vietnamese civilians near the village of My Lai, at a hamlet called Son My, more commonly called My Lai in the U.S. press. As many as 500 villagers, mostly women, children, infants and the elderly, had been systematically killed by American soldiers during a bloody rampage on March 16, 1968. Had he been convicted, Calley could have faced the death penalty.

NOT fellow Americans, sweetpants LOL! You're a good egg, Ron; even if we agree upon almost nothing!

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 113

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:21:24 PM

lemarquis2

Posts: 24
Joined: 9/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivineDemise

My point exactly. Its not just the U.S who has done such things many others have & worse. For instance Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Saddam. However media wants to put it off on one & not others.

nice company for these guys ... and I am inclined to believe you might be quite right ...

(in reply to DivineDemise)

Post #: 114

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:26:11 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

yeah, that aint what I am talking about there is a vast difference in americans prosecuting germans and americans prosecuting americans for war crimes or such.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 115

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:27:10 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
yeah, that aint what I am talking about there is a vast difference in americans prosecuting germans and americans prosecuting americans for war crimes or such.

My bad. I didn't grasp your meaning. I apologize.

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 116

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:29:26 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Ditto!

My Irish Catholic grandmother considered creamation "blasphemy" because,....."those bastard Vikings did it."
Since when did we start worshipping cadavers?

Oh yeah, I can just see all the Sailors and Marines on ships at sea; "Hey Charlie, don't you feel...... disgraced today?"
Oh yes old chum, exceedingly so."
Gee, I wonder how the German, Dutch, French militaries are "feeling" today?
Still nothing from Tweak on the psychological state of the Australian Military! Tweak, any news yet?
Maybe Polite Sub could give us a report on how the Brit soldiers and Marines are walking around, heads hanging in shame?

Maybe you should read the reactions of your own leaders, both military and political. You feeling it is fine to urinate on dead bodies says more about you than I ever could.

"That murdering Popeye! He killed a fly and left two others severely wounded! Then, he poured honey on them so the carpenter ants could tear them to pieces! "Oh,.....the horror!!!"

Let's rewind to 1944; "But Admiral Halsey, just because that Japanese citizen/soldier threw a grenade at six of your Marines doesn't mean he doesn't have rights!"
Admiral Halsey;........................................... you fill in the blanks.

Anyone who's politically correct doesn't belong in the government or the military.
In WW2 they pulled the Japs ears off for souveniers and any gold teeth.

This is going to be another feather in Oblunder's cap, come on November!
Is he going to say; "Those poor Taliban,.....or..."We brought them to justice?"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/12/2012 4:35:56 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 117

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:37:19 PM

VideoAdminGamma

Posts: 2233
Status: offline

Fast reply

At this time I would like everyone to be reminded of this:

"The primary intention of this board is to provide a forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas. Considering the natural diversity of opinion and expression, it is expected that disagreements will often occur. While debate is fine, postings of the sort generally known as "flames" is not. Participants are not expected to coddle one another, but they are expected to keep things within the realm of maturity. "

http://www.collarchat.com/m_72/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#72

Thanks,
VideoAdminGamma

_____________________________

"The administration has the authority to handle situations in whatever manner they feel to be in the best interests of the forum, at that moment, in response to that event. "

http://www.collarchat.com/m_72/tm.htm

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 118

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:44:21 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

Gamma, I'll sincerely try not to "disgust" anyone but that'll be a Yeoman's job!
Some people are so,....."sensitive."

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to VideoAdminGamma)

Post #: 119

RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops. - 1/12/2012 4:56:27 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Codes of discipline are lipstick on a pig.

Aside from what Kirata said, which is absolutely credible, I would also point out that voicing that opinion, or evidencing that attitude, is one of the shortest routes to a dishonorable discharge around these parts that I know of, but not before the CO tears the offender a new one. If it's one of those I know, said new hole is likely to be very thoroughly reamed out, too. Our soldiers are professionals doing a difficult and demanding job. We have no use for armed mobs.

quote:

Atrocities occur in all wars b/c all wars are Atrocities.

You can't seriously be comparing the present war in Afghanistan with Nanking, Armenia or Congo?

When mothers beg your troops to kill them that they may be mercifully rid of the memories of what those same troops have done to their daughters; when there are literal rivers of blood along the roads to the mass graves; when the remains of eaten humans litter the firepits and men play football with the unborn torn from the womb; then you may have a point. Meanwhile, you're just displaying a frightening level of ignorance or indifference.

Nobody's claiming that Afghanistan is a walk in the park, but your statement requires some tempering perspective.

quote:

There can be no such thing as honorable war.

Without defining the term 'honorable', you might as well say "There can be no such thing as a twiddlybangwhooshy war."

I get that fewer people in the western hemisphere have any meaningful concept of honor these days, and that the term has had varied meanings across different periods and cultures, but that doesn't make it a meaningless one, nor one devoid of a theme. If you wish to contend that war cannot be fought in an honorable manner, you will have to provide your definition of 'honorable' for reference, as it may well have a different meaning than what some other posters read into it. The usual colloquial sense of "well regarded by the public" clearly doesn't work when describing war.

quote:

Wars are the most despicable, sordid, and horrific of all human endeavors.

Clearly, you have been spared exposure to a wide range of human endeavours.

Either that, or you're conflating quantity with quality.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to vincentML)

Post #: 120

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: The actions of a few disgrace all allied troops.

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109