RE: BDSM out of necessity? (Full Version)

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crazyml -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:09:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

I think the people who agree with me just don't like to be called fascists for disagreeing with them, or have their significant others be called assholes.

I haven't directly told anyone on this thread that they were disgusting or an asshole or whatever.

If you don't like what I have to say, then you are welcome not to post, or to disagree with me, without calling me or my fiance names.


Are you claiming that I have called either you or your fiancé names?

I would strongly suggest that you ask the people who wrote privately to agree with you to have the balls to make their case here. Because, if they're afraid of being judged by a bunch of strangers on the internet they surely don't have much courage or conviction.





DesFIP -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:10:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clickofheels


"...and she is on the arm of that jackass, making her one by association."

Good luck.



Considering the fact that his fiance' has said absolutely NOTHING on this thread, don't you think that comment was a bit hasty and uncalled for??? PLEASE rethink your comment. I think you're better than that, JstAnotherSub.

Thanks,
Ms Click


Sorry, I aint above that.  I mean it.


I agree with JAS. When you stand by a bigot and don't disassociate yourself from the bigoted things he says, then you are a bigot yourself. Because decent people don't associate with bigots.

Lie down with dogs, rise up with fleas. Both members of this couple would benefit from a metaphorical flea dip. But I suggest not with their local community, members of whom will shortly have read this thread and be disinclined to associate with them.




Dscouple7383 -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:11:12 AM)

Now THAT is funny!!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fornica

Names like fat, or lazy, or cat puke, or say that you couldn't pay someone to fuck you?
Oh wait. That was you.

Crazymyboyfriend~ your post was so awesome that I filled your inbox with my giant tittehs.
JAS~ I'm glad you meant it.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

without calling me or my fiance names.







Kaliko -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:22:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

Somehow this got turned into being about obese.

I said that people don't fix their hair, wear makeup, etc...

People who don't TRY.


I read your original post and didn't reply - not because I was ticked or anything but because I saw it for the loaded gun that it was. I hadn't had my coffee yet. :)

Mmm...I've written a paragraph and deleted it three times now. I'm not really sure how to say what I want to say. I don't completely disagree with you, though I do take umbrage at the attitude that accompanies the theory. I do feel that there is generally more acceptance in the non-vanilla world. I think that some of us have fetishes (talking even outside BDSM now, but kink in general) that would cause us to consider a partner that maybe we otherwise wouldn't.

Using myself as an example:

Believe it or not, I've come across men that would not like to see me with another woman, or don't care to have their privates caressed and cradled for hours on end, or don't care to engage in me servicing them in some sort of watersports activity, or don't want me to get them a beer and kneel on the floor. (I know - seems odd to me, too.) Anyway, if a man tells me he would embrace that, as opposed to someone who would not be willing, I have to say I would give more attention to the kinkier gentleman. He may not be as traditionally visually appealing, but he's got what I want on a sexual level.

If I was more vanilla, these (and other) kinks wouldn't take precedence like they do. So perhaps that less traditional looking man might not make my radar.

I would imagine that there are at least a few people, both men and women, that have learned that a willingness to partake in certain activities is, in fact, a way in to a relationship. I would never presume that it is the bulk of the BDSM community, nor would I presume that if someone is overweight/unkempt/whatever and on a BDSM site it is because they have no other alternatives. That is quite insulting to the many, many of us - of varying looks and sizes - that are here because we like it here.

As far as the post quoted above, makeup may be your standard, but the type of man that I would look for would much prefer a woman who doesn't wear makeup, but instead would be able to wake up in a tent and wash her hair in a mountain lake and not be squeamish about not having a mirror or being able to put lipstick on for fear of being unattractive. I myself wear very little makeup. If a man told me he considers whether one wears makeup to be the equivalent of "trying," he is not a man I would want to be with. To each his own there, though. Which is kind of my point. What you consider attractive, or unattractive, is not necessarily what everyone feels.












Dscouple7383 -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:23:55 AM)

Well, this is Danielle, I suppose that I should post a little something. Especially since the people who are upset with Derek's posts are including ME in their responses. I didn't realize that it was the general assumption that because my significant other has an opinion on a matter *I* automatically have the same exact feelings on the subject. I am pretty sure he DID post that when he read the original message to me I told him that he was overly harsh as well. And here I am being called a jackass by association. Hmmmm none of your partners have a "jackass opinion" on ANY topic that you don't agree with? None of your friends have a differing view that could possibly put them in the "JACKASS" classification? I'm sooo delighted to see that while you are all jumping over Derek because of his OPINION, most of you are doing the exact same thing in regards to me. And for those of you who don't find us attractive...LOL as other's have pointed out beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I can point out my flaws, and I DO have them, physically, emotionally and mentally, but at least I TRY.
This may come as a shock to everyone, but [sm=hewah.gif] we both have jobs! [sm=hewah.gif] we raise THREE children! [sm=hewah.gif] we MAKE time to go to the gym! [sm=hewah.gif] We eat healthy! [sm=hewah.gif] We shower regularly! [sm=hewah.gif] When we are lounging around the house we don't wear our finest clothing (case in point I'm in sweats and a t-shirt right now). BUT when we go out we both brush our hair, put on some of our nicer clothes and look PRESENTABLE!
THAT is the problem we have, MOST of the people in OUR AREA don't seem to care enough to TRY. I disagree with Derek saying it's across the board because as someone else pointed out we haven't been to events all over the country or even the world. But where WE are, we find ourselves surrounded by people who don't feel the need to put forth their best effort.
So while everyone is on their mighty horse about how terrible a person Derek is for having the opinion he does, why do you take a good long hard look at yourself, especially the people that are saying we: aren't attractive, anorexic, narrow minded, fascist, swallow, jackass....seems to me that you are doing the exact same things you are calling him names for doing.

The beauty of message boards is that you can [sm=hewah.gif] choose not to read things that offend you!

Have a nice day.




angelikaJ -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:28:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

So, I know it sounds mean, but is bdsm (and especially in the community) mostly for people who CAN'T find someone on their own, and they use the d/s construct just to get attention that they couldn't almost PAY for in the vanilla world?


This was your actual question.

It had nothing to do with your preferences.

You may have written the post out of frustration because you can't find anyone attractive enough... for you.
Age, weight, make-up and hair are all obviously important to you and it was within your OP... but this was your original question.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:28:14 AM)

You are of course unaware that I am classed as clinically obese, that I have been since I first heard the term in my early 20's. About 25 years ago. Now you are also unaware that I am an ex pro ball player & that I am just fucking heavy. Not fat heavy, I'm scarred to hell for the same reason, what you would call ugly maybe, I'm old too. However I'm still capable of what I did 25 years ago it just takes me longer, I is tantric.

Now here's my point. You might dislike my lack of aesthetic qualities but you would tread carefully around me. You might like the quality of my conversation, you might like the quality of my intellect, you may well find me good company so why judge me purely on looks?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

Is it fair to say that there is a standard for being overweight? Sure there is. Is it fair to say that someone's age is easily calculable? Of course it is.

Then, I have made the OBSERVATION that (through my own experiences) the majority of people in the "community" are older and overweight. That's not by MY standards. It's merely an observation.

So, my question, as shallow as it's been pointed out, is valid.

Based on what I've seen with my own experience, I am making up my own mind. You may not like what I like, and that's cool.

Some people like blond hair. That's fine!! Some people like facial hair, other's don't.

Some people like big, beautiful people....other's don't.

So......my question is......to determine whether I want to be active in a real life community.

I don't prefer obese people to have a sexual relationship with. Does that make me a bad person? NO!!! Sure, what I said was inflammatory, and I've taken back some of the more mean things I said. But....IF the bdsm local community AS A WHOLE is made up of mostly obese, and an older crowd....then as a preference, I would choose not to participate.

To each their own.





Dscouple7383 -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:29:55 AM)

No, I'm not saying that you have, but others on here certainly have. I have not singled out anyone. I made generalized comments (which always causes debate), and did not single any one person out in particular.

Look.....I have made the observation that from what I've seen, most people in our community are overweight and older. That doesn't upset me. The people who don't TRY to make themselves presentable DO upset me.

And I'll answer why......

Your appearance is your FIRST impression. If you present yourself as disheveled, hair not attempted to be done, or ANY effort to be attractive, tells a lot about yourself, and what you think of yourself. Appearance isn't EVERYTHING!!! But......it IS what gets you in the door. Nobody can get to know you and how "awesome" of a person you are, if they aren't attracted physically to you in the first place. Sure, there are exceptions to that, but as a whole, your appearance is what gets the initial interest going.

We like domestic service because the way a sub takes pride in the quality of work they perform ALSO is a quick way to tell why the person is in the lifestyle.

In short, we look for subs who take PRIDE in their work and their appearance. That speaks volumes as to who they are as a person.
So, if I see someone who appears to not care about the way they look, and make NO attempt at it, then it says that they take no pride in themselves.
And, if that is the prevailing personality type that exists in the local communities, then we know to not take part.
And as others have pointed out, we wouldn't be welcomed there anyway.
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

I think the people who agree with me just don't like to be called fascists for disagreeing with them, or have their significant others be called assholes.

I haven't directly told anyone on this thread that they were disgusting or an asshole or whatever.

If you don't like what I have to say, then you are welcome not to post, or to disagree with me, without calling me or my fiance names.


Are you claiming that I have called either you or your fiancé names?

I would strongly suggest that you ask the people who wrote privately to agree with you to have the balls to make their case here. Because, if they're afraid of being judged by a bunch of strangers on the internet they surely don't have much courage or conviction.







Lockit -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:31:01 AM)

I'm jumping in here later in the thread and am doing an almost unforgivable thing, in that I haven't read all the responses so I don't know what has been said. Having been here a few years I can imagine what's been said. lol

For some the fat etc. will stand out and just the comments on appearance... for me its the old part because I'm one of the older ones... but more-so than that, I see this as a life change thing that naturally happens with many of us.

As we age and the body naturally becomes a battle field of trying to retain that youthful appearance when the body is changing, people tend to become more comfortable with their body. We tend to see that many things beyond appearance are what is more important to our lives. In other words... people and the person matter more than how they look. We have had the youthful appearance and we have done hunks or babes and... well, honestly have often times found them lacking in what has become far more important to us. Personality, common views on life and living and personal ethics or honor codes we might have.

That doesn't mean we want to be with a filthy piggish type of person! That means that within a certain balance, we may not care how a person looks and for all the polish we might expect... the appearances... the arm candy... the superficial. We are looking for substance and if that person has substance, we are attracted to that and the rest comes after that.

Personally I do think we need to try to keep ourselves up because I tend to believe we are happier, but people pleasing isn't high on my list of important things to do and trying to look like a twenty year old isn't really realistic.

Now... for what I found important after that and my real point. As we age, we often become more open to different lifestyles or things in life. Younger people may be hesitant to tell a partner what they like sexually, where a lot of the time an older person may not have any problem expressing what they want. With age comes the physical changes, but also there are emotional and mental changes that we come to realize is more about us and a comfort zone than following the crowd. It shouldn't be an excuse for being accountable for our own health and appearance, but we don't care to play the game either.

We know more of what we want, have more time to go out and take part in things and you are seeing the natural result of many things. I didn't look to see the age of the OP, but I would bet they are at least twenty years younger than I am. You will see changes coming your way that might make you cringe later on when you review how you thought at this age.




crazyml -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:32:42 AM)

Danielle,

I presume that this is a general reply not to me?

I went to pains to emphasise how you are both finger-lickingly attractive.

I don't think that Derek is a terrible person at all, my two main points were...

1) While appearance may give clues as to someone's nature, relying solely on appearance is likely to result in your missing out

2) Given the intelligent, thoughtful, person he is, he ought to at least acknowledge how someone might fall into the terrible error of assuming he's a shallow jackass from his OP.




Kaliko -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:34:22 AM)

Eh, people really have differing opinions, though, on what is acceptable as a first impression. I just heard about a town that made it illegal to wear pajamas in public. You know what? I really don't care. Some of those pajama bottoms are just so friggin' cute, they're like sweatpants, and why doll myself up to go get a container of Ben and Jerry's?





xxblushesxx -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:34:57 AM)

Actually Danielle, I said your profile was anorexic. As in lacking content except talking about looks.

And *if* I had a couples account with HM (we don't because we...well...I don't know, we just have always posted as individuals) but if we did, and he posted something so offensive and designed to draw negative attention as the original post did, then yes, I'd expect to be considered guilty by association. Especially if he then went on to say "Of course, she agrees with me..."

If you don't want to be treated harshly, consider being more kind to others. You do get back what you put out.




Kaliko -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:39:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I'm jumping in here later in the thread and am doing an almost unforgivable thing, in that I haven't read all the responses so I don't know what has been said. Having been here a few years I can imagine what's been said. lol

For some the fat etc. will stand out and just the comments on appearance... for me its the old part because I'm one of the older ones... but more-so than that, I see this as a life change thing that naturally happens with many of us.

As we age and the body naturally becomes a battle field of trying to retain that youthful appearance when the body is changing, people tend to become more comfortable with their body. We tend to see that many things beyond appearance are what is more important to our lives. In other words... people and the person matter more than how they look. We have had the youthful appearance and we have done hunks or babes and... well, honestly have often times found them lacking in what has become far more important to us. Personality, common views on life and living and personal ethics or honor codes we might have.

That doesn't mean we want to be with a filthy piggish type of person! That means that within a certain balance, we may not care how a person looks and for all the polish we might expect... the appearances... the arm candy... the superficial. We are looking for substance and if that person has substance, we are attracted to that and the rest comes after that.

Personally I do think we need to try to keep ourselves up because I tend to believe we are happier, but people pleasing isn't high on my list of important things to do and trying to look like a twenty year old isn't really realistic.

Now... for what I found important after that and my real point. As we age, we often become more open to different lifestyles or things in life. Younger people may be hesitant to tell a partner what they like sexually, where a lot of the time an older person may not have any problem expressing what they want. With age comes the physical changes, but also there are emotional and mental changes that we come to realize is more about us and a comfort zone than following the crowd. It shouldn't be an excuse for being accountable for our own health and appearance, but we don't care to play the game either.

We know more of what we want, have more time to go out and take part in things and you are seeing the natural result of many things. I didn't look to see the age of the OP, but I would bet they are at least twenty years younger than I am. You will see changes coming your way that might make you cringe later on when you review how you thought at this age.



Perfect.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:43:54 AM)

I'm sure that some of the OP's opinions fly in the face of your constitution.

Just saying like.




Kaliko -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:50:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

I'm sure that some of the OP's opinions fly in the face of your constitution.

Just saying like.



Can you help me and rephrase? I have no idea what you mean. :)




crazyml -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:50:55 AM)

Hey,

Seriously, I will totally stand up and defend your right to have a preference for people who, according to your standards, "make that effort".

You are absolutely entitled to that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

Nobody can get to know you and how "awesome" of a person you are, if they aren't attracted physically to you in the first place. Sure, there are exceptions to that, but as a whole, your appearance is what gets the initial interest going.


This may be true for you, and yes - I am not likely to engage with )or hire) someone who had vomit on their clothes. But I do have a very strong impression that you're a lot more likely to judge someone negatively on the basis of their appearance than I am.

But here's the question.... Can you see how your comments might have been perceived as shallow, stupid and offensive?



quote:




We like domestic service because the way a sub takes pride in the quality of work they perform ALSO is a quick way to tell why the person is in the lifestyle.

In short, we look for subs who take PRIDE in their work and their appearance. That speaks volumes as to who they are as a person.
So, if I see someone who appears to not care about the way they look, and make NO attempt at it, then it says that they take no pride in themselves.

You are totally, utterly entitled to that preference.

And I don't doubt that you will find someone who meets your criteria
quote:



And, if that is the prevailing personality type that exists in the local communities, then we know to not take part.
And as others have pointed out, we wouldn't be welcomed there anyway.



Can you not see.... seriously.. how someone reading that sentence might infer that you are saying that the prevailing personality type i
n the local communities is that of someone who appears to not care about the way they look, and make NO attempt at it, and that they take no pride in themselves?

And can you not see how someone might conclude that you're a jackass for saying that?

Again, to be clear, I'm fairly sure you're not a jackass.....





searching4mysir -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:51:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dscouple7383

Your appearance is your FIRST impression. If you present yourself as disheveled, hair not attempted to be done, or ANY effort to be attractive, tells a lot about yourself, and what you think of yourself. Appearance isn't EVERYTHING!!! But......it IS what gets you in the door. Nobody can get to know you and how "awesome" of a person you are, if they aren't attracted physically to you in the first place. Sure, there are exceptions to that, but as a whole, your appearance is what gets the initial interest going.


You seem to think that everyone who goes to munches is looking to hook up/play with someone. Perhaps they don't care to impress anyone because they are in a relationship that satisfies them?

Master is a VERY casual person. He couldn't give two figs what someone at a munch thinks of him. There are very few opinions that matter to him, and the ones belonging to strangers isn't one of them. To me, I see this as dominant behavior to a certain extent: he chooses to live by his own rules and standards and not those of a stranger.


quote:

We like domestic service because the way a sub takes pride in the quality of work they perform ALSO is a quick way to tell why the person is in the lifestyle.


That depends entirely on the sub and who she is trying to impress. As a slave, I couldn't give a shit what anyone thinks of my housekeeping skills except for my owner. If you think there are tons of beautiful bi subs into domestic service willing to join an existing couple, I have some swamp land to sell you. They are rare, so actually it is YOU who has to impress HER, not really the other way around.





crazyml -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:52:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero



Now here's my point. You might dislike my lack of aesthetic qualities but you would tread carefully around me. You might like the quality of my conversation, you might like the quality of my intellect, you may well find me good company so why judge me purely on looks?





Hey Fatboy!

You don't actually offer a binding guarantee though that they'll find you good company do you ?

I only ask because I tried that once and it cost me a fortune.




kalikshama -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:56:14 AM)

quote:

MOST of the people in OUR AREA don't seem to care enough to TRY.


How many people? How and where are you meeting them?




SilverBoat -> RE: BDSM out of necessity? (1/15/2012 9:57:35 AM)

@OP --- First off, I'm a big guy, currently hauling around about 20% of spare tire, and it's been on and off a couple of times. Forty years ago, I was playing national-level soccer, bagged that to get a real job, thirty years ago racing cars, quit that to go back to school, twenty years ago medaled racing (master's  35+) bicycles, had to (ironically) quit that for health reasons, and have been racing sailboats ever since. Yeah, the extra ballast makes a difference in those sports, and maybe age-n-metabolism, and yeah, drinking a brew or two, but the thing I eventually recognized about Myself was the competition. I like competing (and I like winning), and physical fitness went along with how seriously I wanted and prepared to compete.

Compared to, say, darts or golf, baseball or football, etc, the sports I've pursued didn't demand a genetically-determined dexterity or physique, and are all sports that demand both mental and physical endurance, which has some parallels to neurochemical (endorphins) and social (dominance) aspects of scene play. And like those sports, the mental and physical condition into which participants work themselves for scene-play, beyond their inherited whatever, is a result of how their perceptions, actions, expectations, etc within that context. If people really want that chisel-chin muscle-bound Dom or double-dee yoga-gumby subbe enough to put in the effort to look and act attractive in that way, then they'll put in the effort to achieve it. Otherwise, whether they admit so to themselves or not, or lambast you for not addressing such matters with sufficiently indirect politically-correct obliquities (and there might be no sufficiency of that for some), they're just not that into that sort of thing enough to put in that much sustained effort.

Sure, there are effects from the commercial elements adjunct to the 'lifestyle', just as with broader vanilla world. With so many runway models looking anorexic in the industry's effort to sell sex via a twisted sophisticated-adolescent psychological schemes, the current perceptions of 'elegance' pervade even the tolerance and acceptance of this community. As indication of that, Ken Marcus has an expensive pay-site, but amateur paddled-fatty vids are all over the web for free. Maybe it's better to assess that as the majority of people, within this group as everywhere, being attracted to 'healthy' appearance (noting that's varied a lot with time and place) in others and partners, but due to selves, contexts, etc, may decide or feel that they have to 'settle' for less, and be irritable and defensive about that if it's the case. But it's simply a matter of fact that physical fitness, size, etc limit what can and can't be done, and affect who does and doesn't physically attract whom, in ways that mental influences might or might not override.

I don't know if there would be any sound way to survey the scene-players to figure out if they were heavier or not in comparison to the 'vanilla' population. Just about anything people say here about that is most likely rather anecdotal; such as, the worst cases I've known of fat and thin were outside the scene, and all were obsessed with eating, and seemed to have no other passions in their lives. However, I've also read of studies about 'sensation'-obsessions underlying everything from drug-addictions to self-cutting to morbid-obesity to co-dependence, and those in combination and overlap with each other, that seemed broadly applicable to scene play and players.  

Anyway, interesting topic, and yeah, maybe you could have approached it with more, umm, diplomacy.




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