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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/25/2004 10:16:43 PM

ModeratorThree

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My grandfather used to tell me you cannot argue with a stop sign...

I think I finally know what he meant.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/25/2004 10:18:07 PM

yellovv

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maybe i know what he means too

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/25/2004 10:27:55 PM

perverseangelic

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I have to admit the part I don't get is this--why does it matter the gender of the person you were talking to? It seems you were still at the 'get to know you' stages of discussion. I don't quite understand why it would be horrible if you were in fact talking to a man. Even a male-identified man.

Sure, misrepresentation kinda sucks, but I don't understand why it's a big deal. The person obviously didn't mesh with you, and stopped talking to you. Why dwell on his/her gender?

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 4:23:11 AM

Tristan

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Question - do you think its common for men to pretend they are women or for women to pretend they are men?

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 4:47:57 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

I did, for a short time, log on under a female persona (who is the same female persona that manifests when I seriously undergo the effort to cross-dress), and found myself absolutely giddy with admirers. For an attention starved net geek, one can understand the appeal of such attentions.

Ah virtual genderbending. I did a study on this in my undergrad when I was 25. I went into a gay male chat room as a 25 year old gay man, a adult oriented chat room as a 21 year old girl, a BDSM chatroom as a 35 year old male Dom and a chat room for 40 and single as a new divorcée. I wanted to see what kind of reaction I would solicit from each.

quote:

This is not to say that I particularly condone such deception, merely that I can understand it. As a "lifestyle" gamer and roleplayer, taking on a female persona, or a non-human persona, is quite acceptable to me, but I am also used to being able to look up across the table at my fellow players and know who they really are as people and as my friends. That lack of a personal connection is one (of many) things that turned me away from chat.

Ah, I think we are too hard on people exploring. We perform everyday. We role-play everyday. Judith Butler calls is performativity. Kenneth J. Gergen calls it the fragmented or splintered self. The fragmented self is not necessarily a bad thing: it can create a greater open-mindedness within individuals who, through adopting a multi-faceted personality, can be more in touch with a multi-faceted society or reality.

I enjoyed the time I spent discovering facets of myself as these other people. I didn't hang around long enough to form any meaningful connections, as I knew that would have deeper repercussions.

Sherry Turkle has a lot to write about this in her book "Identity in the Age of the Internet". This might interest you if you haven't already read it.

- LA

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 4:50:30 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Rule of thumb. If you stick your ass out at us, we will swat it. Dom/mes & subs alike ;)
- LA

Oooh! ohh ohh ooh! Where's that ass-wiggling smiley when you need it?
(just kidding, but with a line like that...)

<evil sadistic grin>

Uh huh!

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 4:55:31 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorThree
My grandfather used to tell me you cannot argue with a stop sign...

Oh I love that one! And so applicable in this situation!

- LA

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 6:04:00 AM

aliljaded1

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*laughing to self* and thinking about the time i logged off when i asked for a pic of a "man" and he sent me a pic of his hairy arse with a jelly jar shoved in it and asked me for one in return

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Sandy,

Your post made such sense. But do you realise that Inspector Clouseau here came to the conclusion that this individual was a male posing as a female based on the fact that they did not return a pic to him and logged off.

........... Huh?

- LA

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 8:24:40 AM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Ah virtual genderbending. I did a study on this in my undergrad when I was 25. I went into a gay male chat room as a 25 year old gay man, a adult oriented chat room as a 21 year old girl, a BDSM chatroom as a 35 year old male Dom and a chat room for 40 and single as a new divorcée. I wanted to see what kind of reaction I would solicit from each.

I've done this as well in BDSM oriented chats, to see what kind of reaction each "person" gets. My persona's of choice were myself (a 22 y/o female submissive partner who is in a commited relationship) an 18 y/o female who is new to BDSM and lookin for a cyber relationship, a 25 y/o submissive male, and a 25 y/o submissive male in a Master/slave relationship.

It was -fascinating- I'm thikning, actually about using this as a premis for my term paper in Women and Gender Studies this quarter--the performative nature of gender, and all that.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 1:16:23 PM

Suleiman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

This is not to say that I particularly condone such deception, merely that I can understand it. As a "lifestyle" gamer and roleplayer, taking on a female persona, or a non-human persona, is quite acceptable to me, but I am also used to being able to look up across the table at my fellow players and know who they really are as people and as my friends. That lack of a personal connection is one (of many) things that turned me away from chat.

Ah, I think we are too hard on people exploring. We perform everyday. We role-play everyday. Judith Butler calls is performativity. Kenneth J. Gergen calls it the fragmented or splintered self. The fragmented self is not necessarily a bad thing: it can create a greater open-mindedness within individuals who, through adopting a multi-faceted personality, can be more in touch with a multi-faceted society or reality.

Seeking the elegant backpedal...

Okay, upon further reflection, I have to agree with what you said, but I can't seem to find a way to articulate any more clearly what I had already expressed.

Much in the way that people who are "lifestyle" gay or leather (as opposed, I suppose, to "closeted" on the other end of the spectrum) I am a "lifestyle" gamer and roleplayer. I interpret a lot of the data around me in these terms, and I see a lot of roleplay in how people interact, much in the way that many of my gay friends see homoerotic elements in people's interaction. Because I belong to a community (gamers) who condone roleplay and "performativity" (if I am using the term correctly) as an activity, I am used to slipping into and out of various persona masks as part of my day to day interaction.

My non-gamer friends think I'm just being a bit schitzo, or just plain wierd, when I suddenly hunch over and start pretending I'm "Igor" from the old Frankenstein movies, or when I suddenly straighten up, raise one eyebrow, and mutter about the illogic of humans, or hop up on the table and laugh what fools these mortals be. Among my friends, this is an accepted form of behavior, and in fact forms part of the repertoire for how we communicate among ourselves.

What I'm having difficulty with is the fact that I don't consider this to be deception. This is simply one form of human interaction, taken to a silly level, just as dominance and submission are forms of human behavior which we of the leather persuasion take to a silly extreme (quickly ducks hurled items and then goes back to typing). It saddens me that there are "closet gamers", just as it saddens me that there are "closet queers" or "closet pagans". I will not attack someone for being such a thing, but I will try to encourage them to not hide who and what they are, and to me that means that I do not condone their behavior, even though I understand it.

I suppose it's a variation of the old christian aphorism, "love the sinner, but not the sin"

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 5:42:34 PM

proudsub

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I have a male r/l friend that often poses as a femal lesbian in chat rooms. I go to the rooms sometimes and just sit and read and find it very entertaining. He says he does it to learn how to please a woman better. He will sometimes go into PM and cyber with the women as a lesbian. I don't approve but he seems to get a kick out of it.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/26/2004 6:12:11 PM

Suleiman

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Having been partly raised by and around lesbians, I have learned a thing or two about their habits, mannerisms, and ways of speaking and writing. In my opinion (admittedly limited due to lack of interest in chat rooms), most of those lesbians he's talking to, probably aren't.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/27/2004 4:29:40 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

It was -fascinating- I'm thikning, actually about using this as a premis for my term paper in Women and Gender Studies this quarter--the performative nature of gender, and all that.

Oh nice! I read/wrote a ton of stuff on that in my undergrad. Butler, Turkle, Sedwick, Bornstein... fun! I'd love to read your paper once you are done if you don't mind. I have stuff to share too if you like.

- LA

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/27/2004 4:39:50 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

Having been partly raised by and around lesbians, I have learned a thing or two about their habits, mannerisms, and ways of speaking and writing. In my opinion (admittedly limited due to lack of interest in chat rooms), most of those lesbians he's talking to, probably aren't.

So very true. When I do my monthly spin to a popular IRC BDSM chat channel, I stop into the lesbian channel as I have a few online acquaintances there. One of the Ops and I play the "spot the boy" guessing game in PM. Ha!

- LA

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/30/2004 12:19:10 AM

MistressDREAD

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LOL
YELOOVVVVVV
HELLOOOOO
WHAT PART OF

ALTERNATE LIFESTYLE
DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?

stop looking at the gender of things online Yelovv because here online there is no such thing as gender, race, creed, color, age, disability ect ect ect. Just enjoy the mind ride. We all online here are simply 1s and 0s

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/30/2004 9:28:17 AM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
stop looking at the gender of things online Yelovv because here online there is no such thing as gender, race, creed, color, age, disability ect ect ect. Just enjoy the mind ride. We all online here are simply 1s and 0s [/font]

Some people would argue that those things are fictions in "reallife" as well :)

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/30/2004 3:00:28 PM

BeachMystress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

Having been partly raised by and around lesbians, I have learned a thing or two about their habits, mannerisms, and ways of speaking and writing. In my opinion (admittedly limited due to lack of interest in chat rooms), most of those lesbians he's talking to, probably aren't.

LMAO, I love it.. men pretending to be women to cyber with women ending up cybering other men who are pretending to be women to cyber with women. LOL.. how perfect. I've always told subs that any "Domme" who is willing to cyber them or watch their cam the first time chatting is probably a man.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/30/2004 4:59:31 PM

MiladyElaine

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I agree with sfgrrl. Maybe she didn't like what she saw and didn't want to offend...

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/30/2004 5:25:41 PM

Checkers

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I have had some experiences similar to this topic~
My sub and I both handle our own correspondence and share with each other when we feel like it ~ It's happened a few times that people have contacted me, or I've contacted them, and I get the feeling that they begin to suspect that I don't really have a sub - that I'm just a single guy goofing around.
I think this is because I'm selective in the pictures that I send to people. We only have a couple of pix of us together , for various reasons that I won't go into now, I don't like to send those. To me, it's a bit of a privacy thing.
(Well, - we have lots of pix of us together, and I do send those, but just a few showing faces...nevermind.)
Anyway, I'm sure I should just satisfy their suspicions by sending the square face pix, but for some reason it offends me.
Why are people so suspicious? What's the big deal anyway - it's only e-mail , at least at this point.
And doesn't that seem just a little retarded ~ to keep corresponding with someone claiming to be a couple if I'm not? It may happen, but not as often as people seem to think.
I think a big part of it is that in the culture I come from, until you start getting involved with someone to the point where you need to know (i.e., meeting, in this example) you accept what they say about themselves as being their story.

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RE: guys who pretend to be girls - 10/31/2004 3:11:55 AM

mouseyone

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Ok i've just read thru all this just now and i'm putting my two cents in ...Maybe you enjoyed the conversation with this other person so much, that when they "suddenly" logged off it got you so mad that you went to assuming? Disconnections happen, crashes yes, maybe they just didn't want to send a pic so they thought "Hmmm better get out now", or even "OMG he wants a picture and I'm a male"....my point is ...stuff like this happens to everyone, just get over it and move on. Thank you.

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