RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix

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RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 12:59:50 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
he is batting 1000 tonite on guessing what we mean and want, he hasnt been RIGHT yet on any of his strawmen, except in his opinion
LOL

My average is better than yours. yours is the straw man that suggests all politicians are drugged up boozers and that it somehow means that they shouldn't be passing these laws (forgetting that the people elected them to do just that). And I don't have to guess what you want, it's written in every post you make.

Fact: Drug testing can help prepare the non-working people to enter the workforce in which testing has become the norm, if only for its deterrent effect.

Fact: Most of the American work force already gets tested.

Fact: You don't want non-working citizens, who are given FREE money to have to deal with the same thing working citizens do.

Those are the facts, and they are undisputed.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 121

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:01:32 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Oh come now. You can't really believe that. If they qualify for welfare, they also qualify to get food stamps and government housing as well. In government housing, most don't pay utilities, so that's out as well.

Notice I didnt say food. Government housing, which is Section 8, has a massively long waiting list, or havent you noticed the headlines about that?

Waiting List
Because there are so many families who need affordable rental housing, the fairest way for housing authorities to select families is through a waiting list. Applicants for Miami-Dade Public Housing and Community Development's subsidized rental housing programs are placed on a ranked waiting list compiled using a lottery-like system.

All across the country. They arent getting rent paid, or housing, when on the list.

And, to get a good indication of how long that waiting list is...

Waiting List 2008
Applicants from the 2008 waiting list are currently being processed

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Page Last Edited: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:47:14 PM

http://www.miamidade.gov/housing/waitlist.asp

So please, admit your lack of knowledge here and move on.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 122

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:02:27 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
but keep making it about MY hate and emotion
please

Pardon me, who brought up the word hate first? That honor is yours alone.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 123

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:04:27 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

I wonder if this little snippet,

quote:

the first 40 applicants tested, only two came up positive, and one of those was appealing.The state will also have to spend considerably more to defend the policy in court

Will bring up the suggestion by ANOYONE that they shouldnt be allowed to appeal, either.
after all its alll about saving money isnt it?

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/17/2012 1:06:11 AM >

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Post #: 124

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:05:45 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Fact: Drug testing can help prepare the non-working people to enter the workforce in which testing has become the norm, if only for its deterrent effect.

Fact: Most of the American work force already gets tested.

Fact: You don't want non-working citizens, who are given FREE money to have to deal with the same thing working citizens do.

Fact : employers bare the burden of those drug tests.

Fact : not every employee gets tested.. as we have proven. But all welfare recipients will be.

Fact: employees have options other than just one employer

Fact : over half of those on welfare have been working. Many states have limits as to how long you can be on the program. 5 years is the longest I have seen.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 125

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:07:14 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Notice I didnt say food. Government housing, which is Section 8, has a massively long waiting list, or havent you noticed the headlines about that?

Now you're going to complain about waiting lists? Sheessh. Let's just go ahead and give these people *everything* they could ever want, for nothing in return. Damn, let me on your "help" list. Sheesh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
So please, admit your lack of knowledge here and move on.

I have a lot more knowledge than you do, apparently. I work with more than a couple of folks who have vast experience in this area (being that they're some of the only few in their families with jobs). I'm well versed in their tales on how many of their family members are gaming the system.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 126

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:08:59 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Now you're going to complain about waiting lists? Sheessh. Let's just go ahead and give these people *everything* they could ever want, for nothing in return. Damn, let me on your "help" list. Sheesh.

Ah, you mistake facts for complaining, Interesting. Quit derailing.

quote:

I have a lot more knowledge than you do, apparently. I work with more than a couple of folks who have vast experience in this area (being that they're some of the only few in their families with jobs). I'm well versed in their tales on how many of their family members are gaming the system.

Ever been on it? Let me tell you. The gaming days are over.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 127

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:11:59 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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Now, lets go back to the discussion, and the question you refuse to answer.

Why is it illegal search when it applies to the politicians, but not when it applies to welfare recipients, even though the SC has ruled that it was in breach of the 4th Amendment?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 128

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:14:35 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Fact : employers bare the burden of those drug tests.

And? So does the government (since in most cases outside Georgia the state reimburses the cost).

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Fact : not every employee gets tested.. as we have proven. But all welfare recipients will be.

Yet I have been tested for every job, as has nearly everyone I know. I have yet so see an employer *not* require a test. This includes but is not limited to: Grocery checker, Blockbuster manager, Military, Temp Office work, the medical field, security, IT, police, fire department, EMT (technically counts as medical as well), construction, A/C-heating tech, etc. etc. Pretty much all blue collar jobs require the test. So why not prep those on welfare to expect to be tested for a job? What possible harm can *preparation* do?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Fact: employees have options other than just one employer

Yeah, options that all like to test employees.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Fact : over half of those on welfare have been working. Many states have limits as to how long you can be on the program. 5 years is the longest I have seen.

So they double dip, hmmm? Yet another way to game the system. Nice.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 129

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:17:15 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Ah, you mistake facts for complaining, Interesting. Quit derailing.

I'm derailing? *You* brought up rent and housing. You quit derailing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Ever been on it? Let me tell you. The gaming days are over.

I know you like to think so, but considering the conversation I'm privy to nearly every night, the reality seems to disagree with you.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 130

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:23:04 AM

DarqueMirror

Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Now, lets go back to the discussion, and the question you refuse to answer.

Why is it illegal search when it applies to the politicians, but not when it applies to welfare recipients, even though the SC has ruled that it was in breach of the 4th Amendment?

I refused to answer? I've already answered. I said MONTHS ago when topics like this first started that I thought *everyone* should be tested. Everyone. Leaving *no one* out. But acknowledging that hurts your debate because you like to think I'm only for testing the poor, I'm not. I'm for testing *everyone* across the board.

Even more than that, I'm for cameras *everywhere* watching *everything*. But that's a whole different topic for debate. None of which helps your incorrect assumption that I was ever for testing only the poor.

Let me say it again: I've been tested for every job I've ever held. Yet I've never even touched drugs. As such, I want *everyone* tested.

How about this: Instead Of whining about not testing the poor because the politicians get to skate it, why not write letters to your congressman demanding tests for politicians as well?

< Message edited by DarqueMirror -- 1/17/2012 1:24:51 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 131

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:29:14 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Yet I have been tested for every job, as has nearly everyone I know. I have yet so see an employer *not* require a test. This includes but is not limited to: Grocery checker, Blockbuster manager, Military, Temp Office work, the medical field, security, IT, police, fire department, EMT (technically counts as medical as well), construction, A/C-heating tech, etc. etc. Pretty much all blue collar jobs require the test. So why not prep those on welfare to expect to be tested for a job? What possible harm can *preparation* do?

I havent been tested in years except at one job. Funny how there are employers who are just not willing to pay for that test.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 132

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:35:32 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

I refused to answer? I've already answered. I said MONTHS ago when topics like this first started that I thought *everyone* should be tested. Everyone. Leaving *no one* out. But acknowledging that hurts your debate because you like to think I'm only for testing the poor, I'm not. I'm for testing *everyone* across the board.

What part of illegal search arent you getting?

TANF already allows drug testing for cause. Most employers also have that clause. This isnt for cause, this is for bullshit because people like you believe everyone is using if they are on public assistance.

Jobs where you are dealing with safety of the public, jobs where you are handling money, jobs where you could endanger the public, or property... those jobs should be drug tested.. and are.

Welfare recipients do not do any of those things. What they are having happen is being penalized for being poor. The law makers thought they would make a killing from denying assistance to druggies... and got caught with their pants down when less than 0.5% tested positive in Florida at the end.

You can cloud it up with your wanting everyone to be tested. Its a fallacy. Everyone isnt. Nor should they without cause.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarqueMirror)

Post #: 133

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:38:40 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

the first 40 applicants tested, only two came up positive, and one of those was appealing.The state will also have to spend considerably more to defend the policy in court

I'm no mathemetician (by any stretch of anyone's imagination) but, since when is two people out of 40, 2%? Unless I miss my guess; it's 5%. Is it not?

Now, is there a huge difference between 2% and 5%? Not when stated that way but, if there are 10,000 people on assistance and they each get $400 per month, isn't that $4,000,000 per month?

Okay. 2% of $4,000,000 is $80,000. 5% of $4,000,000 is $200,000. I could live on that difference (at today's prices) for 4-5 years! I'll take a damned test, every week!

Peace and comfort,

Michael

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 134

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:43:40 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Tazzys number are real numbers. Mine stating those numbers were specifically out of the first 40 cases tested ONLY not all of the ones that were.
Mine was an anecdote NOT all the figures included
I should have made that clearer
My link, is not the same as Tazzys
just to clarify

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/17/2012 1:45:53 AM >

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 135

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:45:03 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Gotcha. Okay. I was just very confused because while I am not in favor of drug testing (as I stated, earlier), That, right there, makes a huge difference (if it were the case)

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 136

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:47:30 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

well the links are there .. Its not even five yet so Im not up to getting in deeper yet, I need at least another cofffeee before my research fu works properly
Have a good one:)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 137

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:50:50 AM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Yeah, I couldn't see the links. It's all good. I've read almost every post on this thread so I'm reasonably up to snuff. I jumped to a conclusion and I apologize. My math was right, though! LOL I would even hasten to suggest that there are more than 10,000 people receiving assistance so, you can probably multiply all of my figures by a factor of at least 10.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 138

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:55:57 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

its all good:) yeah math is fine:)

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 139

RE: Glass houses and stones don't mix - 1/17/2012 1:59:36 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Yeah, I couldn't see the links. It's all good. I've read almost every post on this thread so I'm reasonably up to snuff. I jumped to a conclusion and I apologize. My math was right, though! LOL I would even hasten to suggest that there are more than 10,000 people receiving assistance so, you can probably multiply all of my figures by a factor of at least 10.

Peace and comfort,

Michael

Your math is correct. At the end, before the court called a halt to the testing, 32 people out of 7000 were found testing positive.

I think that belies the fact that drug testing will rake in the millions they believed it would.

Allow me to add that one of those two are contesting the results. The results therefore drop to 2.5%?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/17/2012 2:01:29 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 140

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