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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 6:30:24 AM   
Moonhead


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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 6:52:12 AM   
PolyIrishMiss


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I love it when a friend or one of my lil sisters borrows my mp3 player. They always come back with this "What the fuuuuck?" look on their faces from the mix of music on it.


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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 8:20:13 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
John Cale is another proto goth who hasn't been mentioned yet: few songs have quite as aggressive a "fuck you" swagger as this one:
Fear Is A Man's Best Friend

Next you'll be nominating My Lovely Horse as a proto-goth track.

I always think of some early metal tracks as proto-goth, albeit not a direct stylistic antecedent but rather in spirit due to the extremely doomy atmosphere they evoke, e.g. Deep Purple's Child in Time from 1970 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAWReBmxEs and an awesome live version of Black Sabbath's Black Sabbath http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BkhtJM8CqE also from 1970 when they were a serious fucking band... and in the latter part of 80's there was an increasing goth-metal crossover with genres like Death Metal.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 1/24/2012 8:32:03 AM >

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 8:38:42 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		You can make a pretty good case for Black Sabbath being the first goth album, I'd have said.
Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper, King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator and Bloodrock could make a claim as well.

And a lot of Cale's '70s stuff is well goth. No idea why you have a problem with that suggestion. It isn't just Patti Smith who ripped off her schtick from him, you know.

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 8:39:09 AM   
bighappygoth39


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Status: offline 		Adam Ant's Beat My Guest is always sure to pick me up.

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 8:47:03 AM   
PolyIrishMiss


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Status: offline 		BHG I'd forgotten about that one, another goes on the list.  In high school "Prince Charming" was one of my internal theme tunes, seeing as everyone thought I was a gay boy...boy did they get that arseways, I got a lot of shit. Adam Ant for someone in that situation, frikkin' legend!

And Moon BOC are definitely proto-goth, they are also rather proto-emo as well. :-)


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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 8:48:51 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I'm not sure that they're quite whiney enough for the emo thing, though: I've always said that Jilted John was the first emo record, myself.

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 9:02:45 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
You can make a pretty good case for Black Sabbath being the first goth album, I'd have said.
Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper, King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator and Bloodrock could make a claim as well.

I wouldn't go as far as to call Black Sabbath's debut the first goth album but I reckon it and the Paranoid album must have had a big influence. Indeed Bowie's pretty weak album "The Man Who Sold The World" from the same period is cited by some early goths as a big influence, and it was pretty much a standard heavy metal album as well.

quote:


And a lot of Cale's '70s stuff is well goth. No idea why you have a problem with that suggestion. It isn't just Patti Smith who ripped off her schtick from him, you know.

I don't know enough of Cale's solo stuff to comment having just heard the occasional album but I don't think FEAR qualifies - if it did we may as well start talking about Randy Neumann being the goth father...

Having said that Cale did contribute greatly to the giant elephant in the room... the Velvet Underground whose initial album arguably is the very first album to feature tracks with a genuinely gothic atmosphere back in 1966, cf All Tomorrow's Parties http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-BrX5Y0mw Venus in Furs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwzaifhSw2c and Black Angels Death Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj1r8smLOmM - it continued with the songs Lou Reed wrote for Nico's album Chelsea Girls, e.g. It Was A Pleasure Then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UISL8e17tbc - in some respects the style of these tracks are even more goth than the prog/hard rock bands I mentioned.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 1/24/2012 9:12:15 AM >

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 10:54:51 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		The whole "goths lurve Bowie" thing seems to be more over the fact that Bauhaus were a shitawful Bowie tribute band and are seen as the prime influence on first wave goth.
(Myself, I suspect the retrogoth stuff would be a lot better if Killing Joke had become the template band for goth instead. They weren't shit.)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 11:18:00 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Anyway, on a more G.O.T.H. and less goff note:
Leave Them All Behind - Ride


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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 1:17:03 PM   
doctorgrey


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Status: offline 		Having a shufty through some Tom Waits (Rain Dogs) has given rise to foot-shuffle tube-commuting here in the Smoke.
He always knocks me sideways when I re-hear him.

DrG

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/24/2012 1:57:50 PM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
The whole "goths lurve Bowie" thing seems to be more over the fact that Bauhaus were a shitawful Bowie tribute band and are seen as the prime influence on first wave goth.
(Myself, I suspect the retrogoth stuff would be a lot better if Killing Joke had become the template band for goth instead. They weren't shit.)

Didn't know that about Bauhaus but I remember Siouxie also said "The Man Who Sold The World" was influential. At least half the tracks are dross but this is one of the better tracks which is a definite antecedent of the sound he would achieve with Ziggy Stardust http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uT3NZTYpPA and quite a pick me up (especially if lobotomy is a cheering topic) as per the topic of the thread!

Another good pick-me-up because it is simultaneously irritating and righteously mocking in an "oh the humanity" sorta way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRWbX96wLUA

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 1/24/2012 2:10:27 PM >

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 4:53:19 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Siouxsie, sadly, is full of shit about her influences. Talented lady, and she's done some great stuff, but having somebody who used to be part of the Bromley Contingent and attended the Bill Grundy thing in the Sex Pistols entourage claiming that Bowie's her biggest influence is hysterically funny. You wouldn't have got on stage in the first place if it hadn't been for the Pistols, but they're a cartoon novelty band, Siouxsie? Fuck off, dear.

(The Bowie thing seems to be a punk throwback: Bowie, Iggy, Lou Reed, The Dolls and Roxy were about the only old farts any punks who weren't John Lydon were allowed to namecheck as being any good.)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 5:12:08 AM   
Anaxagoras


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Siouxsie, sadly, is full of shit about her influences. Talented lady, and she's done some great stuff, but having somebody who used to be part of the Bromley Contingent and attended the Bill Grundy thing in the Sex Pistols entourage claiming that Bowie's her biggest influence is hysterically funny. You wouldn't have got on stage in the first place if it hadn't been for the Pistols, but they're a cartoon novelty band, Siouxsie? Fuck off, dear.

(The Bowie thing seems to be a punk throwback: Bowie, Iggy, Lou Reed, The Dolls and Roxy were about the only old farts any punks who weren't John Lydon were allowed to namecheck as being any good.)

I think you're right on the money to a significant extent: its before my time but it seems some of the influences these guys cited may have just been because they were a distinct alternative to the big macho Led Zeppish 70's sound or the tossery of prog rockers like ELP and "The Floyd". Having said that, I'm not sure she said Bowie (AKA Bromley Dave) was her biggest influence (correct me if I'm wrong), and didn't she do a cover of Bolan's 20th Century Boy in the early days (circa 1978)? I recall it featured on the A-side of one of my older brother's 45's.

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 5:26:00 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		She did. Bolan was probably another glam rocker the punks could deal with. He did make an attempt to get along with that stuff on his telly programme after all.
Of course, she also covered Bob Dylan's This Wheel's On Fire then had the chutzpah to claim that she didn't know it was Dylan, or she wouldn't have covered it...

(I'm actually a bit dubious of the whole "poonks hated prog" thing: Lydon was very taken with Hawkwind and Peter Hammill, and went to see Van Der Graaf when they were touring The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome, an album which now sounds an awful lot like the first wave of post punk but came out when Lydon was still in the Pistols. Then there's the heavily muso likes of Keith Levene or Tom Verlaine, and all those synths that started appearing on everything in '78...)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 5:35:32 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Actually, now I've mentioned VDGG a couple of times:
Killer
Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever (Running)
A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers (part one)

Then there's the singer's punky moment:
Nadir's Big Chance


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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 5:41:52 AM   
Anaxagoras


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Status: offline 		You're correct, there was some definite crossover. Tom Valerine's first album was surprisingly jammy for a punk classic. PIL's first album was pretty prog-rock as well. Having said that I feel the move in 1976 to two/three minute straight ahead bastardised Berry tunes was a distinct reaction to prog, a two fingered salute to the ten minute glockenspiel solo...

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"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 8:24:59 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Probably. A lot of punk does sound pretty glammy, though. Change the words and you could hear the Glitter Band doing One Chord Wonders...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 9:46:23 AM   
Ninebelowzero


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Status: offline 		& the MC, the Ramones? Seriously one of the first bands to touch on Goth must have been the Doors.

Lydon did a John Peel show or 2 & he was playing the Alan Parsons Project

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Siouxsie, sadly, is full of shit about her influences. Talented lady, and she's done some great stuff, but having somebody who used to be part of the Bromley Contingent and attended the Bill Grundy thing in the Sex Pistols entourage claiming that Bowie's her biggest influence is hysterically funny. You wouldn't have got on stage in the first place if it hadn't been for the Pistols, but they're a cartoon novelty band, Siouxsie? Fuck off, dear.

(The Bowie thing seems to be a punk throwback: Bowie, Iggy, Lou Reed, The Dolls and Roxy were about the only old farts any punks who weren't John Lydon were allowed to namecheck as being any good.)



< Message edited by Ninebelowzero -- 1/25/2012 9:49:30 AM >

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RE: Favourite piece of GO.T.H. music. - 1/25/2012 2:06:01 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I was forgetting the Doors. That's a very good call.

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