DaddySatyr
Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
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RS, you know I respect the heck out of you and dig you but, I want to address some things, here because this is a pretty spicy issue with a few different perspectives.
Now, I am not into the M/s lifestyle so my opinion may not be as valid as others but, here goes ...
quote:
ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
"Sir" has always been a universally acceptable form of address for me. It goes over well in both vanilla and BDSM crowds. As others have said, it's not just a bdsm thing, it's a point of good manners and polite address. My very nature and mannerisms inspire vanilla strangers to call me sir.
Sir is not the title of a knight or baronet except when used as a such in conjunction with their name, like; "Sir Orimotis." So when you simply address someone as sir, by definition it means "gentleman". I am a gentleman, so I am very comfortable being addressed politely.
If a dominant is uncomfortable being addressed politely and with respect, perhaps they need to examine their understanding of the the language? If they understand the terms of respect and are uncomfortable being addressed in their station, a position of power , perhaps they need to reexamine their role?
I am uncomfortable in the context of our lifestyle with a submissive calling everyone "Sir" because it lessens the effect of the word when used to show esteem as opposed to courtesy. I am all for courtesy and I believe one of the problems in this world is that we have allowed basic courtesy to go by the wayside. Familiarity does, indeed, breed contempt.
In common usage, people often refer to me as "Sir" (It's weird. I put on a suit and people think I'm no longer a cretin). I have found that people that address me in this manner are generally well-mannered, anyway. I'll give another example:
If I have to call a company with whom I do business (I'm a consumer) or, even worse yet; when they call me and ask: "Is Michael _ _ _ _ _ _ _ there?" and I respond: "This is he", I frequently get: "Hi, Michael we were calling because ..." that drives me mad and my first thought is: "Are we friends?" Yes, I'm that anal-retentive about the way things used to be.
We've lost some of that because of the interwebs. Very few people are looking to put their last names out here and rightly so. Therefore, the old axiom that in polite company, we don't address people by first name until invited to do so has gone the way of all flesh.
I will say that when that phone caller says: "Well, Mr. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ we wanted to call because ..." I frequently thank them for being courteous and praise them for it and then, I tell them that they should feel free to call me "Michael".
Back to the context of our lifestyle: It does make me uncomfortable because a title, in this lifestyle is often self-gifted. While I believe that everyone is worthy of courtesy, I don't believe everyone is worthy of esteem (this is where the word "respect" becomes problematic for me).
I have had submissives/slaves that weren't mine tell me that they hold me in high esteem and want to address me as "Sir" to reflect that and, at that point, I have no issue with it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
If a submissive is uncomfortable using common polite terms of address and titles, or thinks being polite and respectful is something someone has to earn, then it reflects on their general state of ill manners and shitty disposition. If they are intent on paying respect in trade for a someone's behavior, like being polite was a reward for something... well, that's called training, not submission.
I whole-heartedly agree that we should address people as they wish to be addressed. That is the ultimate show of courtesy. I remember being fourteen or so and my mother's baby brother telling me: "Don't call me Uncle Paul. I don't want anyone as old as you are calling me 'Uncle' anything. Call me Paul." My mother was standing there and I froze. She shrugged and said: "If that's what he wants to be called, by doing so, you're showing him respect".
I have found that this has served me well in life. I have friends that are transgendered who wish to be called a name other than the one their parents gave them. That's fine and I am respecting their wishes by doing so. Not because I hold them in any sort of esteem necessarily (though I do) but because it is what they wish.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
The title "Master" is not possessive. He isn't "your" Master, you don't own him. He owns you or someone else. When ever I hear someone use the term "my Master", I know they don't have a clue. Whether it is Master Orimotis in the BDSM world or Master Wu-ping the karate expert in the vanilla world, it is polite to call them by their title whether or not Master Orimotis is your owner or Master Wu-ping is your sensei.
I couldn't agree with you more about the possessive part. I stress that I have never espoused the M/s lifestyle but where does a slave come to own anything ? I won't say that anyone that does that doesn't have a clue but, it does make me question (privately) if that person really is as submissive as the title "slave" (which they probably gave to themself) would indicate.
Again, I think there's a difference here. Forgetting that I would never refer to anyone as "Master or Mistress", I may think "Master Giveittoherhard" (Hopefully a ficticious name) is a complete twat waffle and I will never bestow an honorific of their own creation on them.
By contrast, Master Wu-Ping probably studied for years under some organizational banner and was given that title to show his satisfactory completion of whatever "tests" the governing authority deemed relevent.
I have an uncle that's a PhD. I always intruduce him to people as: " ... my uncle, Dr. Robert _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ..." It is then, his decision how he wishes that person to address him (He prefers "Bob" but he spells it, backwards, just to fuck with people).
quote:
ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Using titles - Would you refuse to acknowledge the Queen of England as a queen because she is not your queen? What kind of pretzel logic can justify being rude to anyone in any lifestyle that has any title?
The Queen is a tough example because the only reason she holds that title is by virtue of (probably) being genetically spread thin. It's about "bloodlines and lineage" so, I don't know what to do with that but I can say that I refer to all American politicians, whether I agree with them or not by their title because it was bestowed upon them by a plurality of their constituants. Again, not someone just hanging a title on themself.
I will agree that I may be nit-picking a bit but, I think there is a difference between someone who has worked hard or excelled at something or shown great talent and someone who woke up one day and said: "Ya know, I want you people to call me 'Emperor Michael' because well, because."
Peace and comfort,
Grand Exhaulted Emporer Michael
< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/22/2012 10:41:36 AM >
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RE: Sir or Master - 
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