RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths.

RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (Full Version)

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Chaingang -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 11:46:35 AM)
Well, I skimmed most of the on point posts here and I think I am the odd one out on this issue. I DO think that its possible for people involved in alternative sexual lifestyles to be "better" than what is average in the vanilla world. Oh sure, there are plenty of assholes within any lifestyle - there always are. But I really think that alternative lifestyles have one clear advantage over the vanilla option- they prioritize and encourage honesty far beyond what occurs in the mainstream of culture. In fact, by entering into such an alternative lifestyle a person has usually struggled to be truthful about something to themselves and been rewarded - so there is positive reinforcement at work as well. Dishonesty is rampant everywhere - but especially within the vanilla world. I see it all the time. The big lies. The little lies. The lies one tells oneself. Etc. Alternative lifestyles might just be a notch higher though. Honesty is how people arrive here and if they are smart they stick with it to reach higher still. There's very rarely any downside to admitting a truth in an alternative sexual lifestyle - in fact, it's by admitting it that you might actually get exactly what you want. More positive reinforcement - ad infinitum. In vanilla situations people are punished for their truths. I remember well telling a friend of mine how much I admired a girl at university that was amazonian in her proportions (because I like women with a lot of va-va-voom appeal); culture being what it is and since "thin is in" and Jayne Mansfield types are out, my friend turned to me and said (verbatim): "Dude, you're sick!" One misstep in the vanilla world and you get hammered. "Square peg," "the peg that sticks up," etc - is it a mistake that we have these cliches in our culture? Truth is not championed - conformity is what is championed. Conform or be knocked back down - keep your truth to yourself! In this lifestyle there is at least a far greater potential that no one will criticize my truth. Likewise, if someone tells me how they like to stick ginger-root up a girl's ass and how it gets them off, it doesn't have to be my own kink also for them to share about it. They know they can speak their truth and no one else gives a fuck. YMMV

darkinshadows -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 11:50:15 AM)
I personally would wish to add that IB is the perfect example of GoreanMasters. and I hope that people can learn more on how REAL Gor is from the example He teaches us. Strong, polite, dignified and respectful without letting anyone interfere with His desire and belief - even in a negative way. No one has power over a Gorean Master, save the Master Himself. Peace and Love

pinkee -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 12:00:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows I personally would wish to add that IB is the perfect example of GoreanMasters. and I hope that people can learn more on how REAL Gor is from the example He teaches us. Strong, polite, dignified and respectful without letting anyone interfere with His desire and belief - even in a negative way. No one has power over a Gorean Master, save the Master Himself. Peace and Love Great topic. i have been lied to, harrassed, hacked and generally manhandled by "Doms" but i suppose they were really just HNGs with excellent cloaking devices. My Dom and Master friends are the "real deal" and i just adore each and every one of Them. ~laughs~ Yet more competition for IronBear! i call dibbies! <huggles to my lovely and wise friend, da.> pinkee

marieToo -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 12:43:22 PM)
Enigmabrat: I will admit that writing on these boards is probably the greatest exercise in self-control that I've ever had. Its very hard sometimes to word something so that no one is offended....And... Yes, there is a way to say you dont like something or approve of something, in a diplomatic way, which you chose not to do. But in reading your original post, it was just a very strong opinion about Gor--rough yes--but at no point did you directly insult a single person. Others who commented back to you were sarcastic, attack oriented, and one even took a dig at your nick having the word brat in it. I think if people are going to critisize something about you, they shouldnt be exhibiting the same behavior that they profess to abhor, while theyre doing it. Maybe you should learn diplomacy if you want to get along better in a public forum; thats up to you. In my opinion, you owe no one an apology for what you feel. We are all the product of our experiences and surely there are reasons that we feel the things we do. You have a right to have a strong and even violently strong opinion, just as anyone else does. :)

MissA -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 12:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Often times those who are newer to this lifestyle will have a warped view of what they can expect to find here. I have to assume that there are some people out there who are spreading these myths. "People in the lifestyle understand themselves better", "People in the lifestyle are more accepting.", etc., etc... I think it would be ideal if this applied but sadly I have seen some of the most confused and judemental people I've ever met in "the lifestyle." quote: New submissives are frequently told by Dominants about the importance of placing their trust in them....and of course because they have been told that Dominants are some superior species they blindly buy into that BS and the end result is often times disastrous. I do want a trusting relationship with any submissive or other person I'm planning on being involved with or scening with - BUT, and this is a big BUT, I believe I have to earn that trust. It is not automatically mine because I say to someone I am Dominant. Likewise I believe it has to be maintained once it is earned. quote: I think that it is important that when we are speaking with someone who is new, that we need to convey to them that this lifestyle is not far removed from the rest of the world. Yes, the beaches may indeed be appealing but there are sharks in the water. No different than any other beach. We are not proportionately more honest, more morally or ethically superior...or have more integrity than the rest of the world. Reality....I know....it sucks..... Mistoferin - I wish there was not so much truth in your statements. It would be fantastic if we could put aside the pettiness we all complain about experiencing daily in the vanilla world and be as accepting and non-judgemental as some say we are. We are all human though, with human emotions, and wherever those are involved there will be conflict. ~Ms. A~

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 1:16:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissA and be as accepting and non-judgemental as some say we are. We are all human though, with human emotions, and wherever those are involved there will be conflict. We've got a rash of people lately making "judgement" a bad word and somehow suggesting that you can't make a judgement about something and not accept it, or worse. My mother would judge anyone who is not a christian to be wrong about their beliefs and going to hell. But she will still be your best friend. Making good judgements is a necessary skill for people to have in life. The issue is how we make judgements, what we do with our judgements once we have them, and expectations of others sharing judgements.

NCSilverWolves -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 1:22:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Well, I'm not really sure how anyone could have been offended by that statement. I didn't say that anyone was warped. I said some possess a "warped view". There is a difference between "having" something and "being" something. I didn't imply that it was an intrinsic part of anyone's personality. I also didn't say "all the time" or "everyone".....I said "often times". Geesh! Damn again you lead me on Erin.... I was loving my warped thoughts...and now you say not warped..will you make up my mind?......lmao.... hugssssssssssssss................ Jessica

NCSilverWolves -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 1:29:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Proprietrix The people who portray BDSM as utopia are getting some kind of reward from doing so. They are making money on a pay site, royalties off a book, getting a bigger hand full of partners to play with, more people kneeling at their feet, more orgasms, more clients, a more inflated ego, more attention, more ... something. It only works because there are morons out there who are buying the BS they’re selling. So long as they have the consumers, they’re going to continue to market their shit. I don’t even see it as damaging, nor do I care about the outcome of their interaction. If one person wants to spout bullshit at a price, and the other wants to buy the bullshit, who the hell am I to butt into their deal? If the one buying into the bullshit gets hurt and learns a valuable lesson, I’m of the opinion "It’s about damn time you learned that lesson. The rest of the world figured it out when we were 12." The longer I stick around in the BDSM "community", the more cold-hearted and callous I become toward idiots. I used to value educating newcomers, but nowadays I'm more along the lines of "whatever". If you want to live in a fantasy-laden world where you believe total strangers, waste your time/money on scams, and buy into bullshit, why should I try to veer you otherwise? I just lack patience for anyone over 8 years old that’s that naïve. I don’t even see it as naïveté anymore. I just see it as flat out stupidity. On a good day I can see it as "one wanker to another". Naivete, stupidity, wankerism… I really have no inclination to spend any time on any of it. If someone didn't get a clue in life before they walked through the BDSM gateway, they're probably not going to get a clue once they get here. After hours of trying to sit back and think of Erin's OP here..... I still couldn't of put my words down any better than what you have. So now I just have fun... and let others learn the pro's and con's of it all. The do and don'ts. No one really helped me. I tried to help a few. Screw it........ let them learn about the way I did. Trial and error. Research and discovery.

Padriag -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 2:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross We've got a rash of people lately making "judgement" a bad word and somehow suggesting that you can't make a judgement about something and not accept it, or worse. My mother would judge anyone who is not a christian to be wrong about their beliefs and going to hell. But she will still be your best friend. Making good judgements is a necessary skill for people to have in life. The issue is how we make judgements, what we do with our judgements once we have them, and expectations of others sharing judgements. That's the rub though. To make a judgement you must judge something, and that means making an informed decision. Most who are judgemental do so out of ignorance. I have no problem with judging others or being judged myself. I often heard growing up "Judge not lest you be judged," and always wondered why so many seemed afraid of being judged.

MissA -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 2:23:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross We've got a rash of people lately making "judgement" a bad word and somehow suggesting that you can't make a judgement about something and not accept it, or worse. My mother would judge anyone who is not a christian to be wrong about their beliefs and going to hell. But she will still be your best friend. Making good judgements is a necessary skill for people to have in life. The issue is how we make judgements, what we do with our judgements once we have them, and expectations of others sharing judgements. That's the rub though. To make a judgement you must judge something, and that means making an informed decision. Most who are judgemental do so out of ignorance. Padriag is on the right track as to what I was inferring. I was thinking of the ignorant, stereotypical judging. I never suggested judgement was a (blanket statement) "bad" thing LA. Things/people/situations should be evaluated. However, none of us have the right to judge without knowing what or who we are judging. I see this too often and that is what I meant. ~Ms. A~

marieToo -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 3:36:04 PM)
Just a general statement .... I hate to get hung up on semantics, but I think it applies on this topic.... Making judgements is something we do all the time. If we didn't, we'd have no basis from which to make our decisions in life. That is not the same thing as "passing judgement" on people who believe differently than we do. I guess we're all guilty of that at some point also, but I do see a difference between making judgements (or making judgement calls) and passing judgement .

VvShadowspawnvV -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 5:34:10 PM)
Perhaps it's that we assume that everyone is warped in the same exact direction as ourselves. =/ becca

gooddogbenji -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 5:59:18 PM)
I missed out on a lot of funny posts. I feel sad now. Someone beat me! Stupid edit button, but thanks to the great, glorious and grand quote button, some of them were saved for posterity. Yours, benji

enigmabrat -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 6:06:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Enigmabrat: I will admit that writing on these boards is probably the greatest exercise in self-control that I've ever had. Its very hard sometimes to word something so that no one is offended....And... Yes, there is a way to say you dont like something or approve of something, in a diplomatic way, which you chose not to do. But in reading your original post, it was just a very strong opinion about Gor--rough yes--but at no point did you directly insult a single person. Others who commented back to you were sarcastic, attack oriented, and one even took a dig at your nick having the word brat in it. I think if people are going to critisize something about you, they shouldnt be exhibiting the same behavior that they profess to abhor, while theyre doing it. Maybe you should learn diplomacy if you want to get along better in a public forum; thats up to you. In my opinion, you owe no one an apology for what you feel. We are all the product of our experiences and surely there are reasons that we feel the things we do. You have a right to have a strong and even violently strong opinion, just as anyone else does. :) thank you I feel much better. I wasnt trying to upset anyone honest and I really feel bad your post made me feel better, I will try hard to word things better in the future

marieToo -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 6:27:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag . There's no rush, this is all being archived Oh man, that was a scary thought. Did you have to put it like that?

tasha_tart -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/1/2006 10:22:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom This is exactly why I ask people about their vanilla relationship patterns. Captain Platitudes was the other name I considered taking. Awesome nickname! [:)] I've always thought I'd use "Ignorant Bliss" as a backup. Tasha

IronBear -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/2/2006 3:12:37 AM)
On a daily basis we all need to make judgements which may be the basis of a decision... I prefer to assess both people and situations and my first Judgement is if I want to become involved with the situation or person. If the answewr is yes the next judgement is one of timing. (To jump in boots and all, to enter slowley or to wait untill ihave more information to assess and then decide to move in and how I shall do so).. Rarely do I make an instant judgement about a person and the worst I am likley to decide is that I want nothing to do with him or her. Usually I will asses the apparent strengths and weeknesses and subject matter which we may have in common or either agree or disagree about. Thus my final judgement based upon my assessments will allow me to accept that person unconditionally or conditionally (E.G I will be ready to agree to disagree on various matters or that I will like the person but I wouldn't trust him or her with the bones of some lone deceased relitive) The above comments is the basis of what I do these days and in a friendly (non combat or danger zone) environment. I am well practiced in making snap judgements which may or may not either save life, limb or property or squeeze or order squeezed the trigger to end a life. Judge not others lest you be judged... The Moving Finger writes; and having writ, Moves on; nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel; half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it. ~ Omah Khayyam ~

IronBear -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/2/2006 3:19:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: enigmabrat The truth is Gor is play. It has its place in life but I feel it isnt life it is play and should be taken in moderation again my opinion and I mean no harm Funny, I think that this actually is right in line with this thread. Many myths about what Gor "is" and "isn't" abound. Maybe IronBear could help us to clear some of that up without turning the whole thread into a Gor debate. I am not Gorean, nor do I profess to understand all that it encompasses. I can tell you that I have many wonderful friends who do identify as Gorean. Now I am not certain if the example that they set is the norm, but I can tell you that it seems that they have adopted some of the ideals and philosophies from the books and incorporated them into their lives. They tend to live at a bit higher level of protocol than what I typically see in M/s relationships. They do not consider what they do as play but as a way of life. They are very much members of the real world, hold down jobs, raise families and live by the laws of the land. If I am very far off IronBear, you have my apologies and hope that you will correct any misspeaks I may have made.. No lass you are not very far off. You are right of target and thank you for this.....

IronBear -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/2/2006 3:21:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag Bit of advice Enigmatic, anytime something here makes you angry, wait at least 15 min before replying. There's no rush, this is all being archived, so take your time and think about what you want to say before you say it. It'll save you a lot of future embarassment. As for Gor, you may not understand it. That's fine. You may not agree with it, that's okay too. You can even point out specific things you don't like about it, and that's alright. But what you shouldn't do is turn it into a generalized, or worse a personal, attack. Anyone who knows much about me knows I'm not Gorean and that there are aspects of Gor I flatly disagree with. So it might surprise you to know that I consider IronBear a friend. He's a good guy, and I think you'll find he's pretty forgiving (sorry if I'm ruining your reputation here IB [;)]). He is Gorean, and we've had more than a few discussions about our differences of opinion. We can do that, because despite those differences, we still respect each other as individuals. I know him to be an honest, ethical and decent person. He's certainly not abusive. Take some time to get to know him, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Thank you my friend.... You of course realise that I am sitting here blushing shamelessly and Neets just wandered off with a huge grin of her face...

IronBear -> RE: The Lifestyle is.....and other pervasive myths. (6/2/2006 3:25:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: enigmabrat Im not even going to dignafie you with a responce that was the stupidest thing I EVER heard but then again its your "opinion" its to bad you feel that way very very sad that you feel that subs are lesser people ok im to angry to even respond right so Ill just ignore you stupidity The sarcastic force is weak in this one. Yess LA the sarcastic force weak in this one is. Messaged me Master Yoda did and your Jedi Training further comensing you when asked he.....[8D]

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