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Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 9:48:00 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Reading the "1rst Impressions" thread in the Mistress' forum has gotten me thinking about this, and I'd like to ask other what they think/do.

As the submissive partner rather than the dominant one, I find that I am not allowed (by those with whom I speak) to say that I do not play on a first meeting. I am told, time and again, that my 'submissive nature' will take over and I will just -have- to play with said person. Well, that among many things.

I'm wondering how you-all keep this a rule without being hated by everyone, everywhere.

My partner and I refuse to play the first time we meet someone, regardless of the chemestiry, simply to give ourselves time to think. This has led to more broken meetings than I can count, huge numbers of people insulting me, the accusation of 'being fake' and 'making up your Dom.'

How does one deal with this? Is there a way of saying "I will not play the first time I meet you" that -isn't- percieved as rude, mean, or something else? Is there a way to communicate serious interest that does -not- have to be followed through with play the first time we set eyes on said person?

Along the same lines, do you think it is possible for a submissive person to say (and remain true to) this idea? How does one avoid being manipulated into violating said rule?

I'm lucky in that my partner protects me from myself, so to speak, but I'd -very much- like to know how other submissive people who are not partnered do it. Or how anyone else does it.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

Post #: 1

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 10:03:22 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I cannot speak for anyone but myself here but I can tell you the way I have handled it.

If someone tells me I am not submissive..so what? Does their opinion matter to me if they are'nt willing to get to know me in any way other than a carnal way?

In my mind if I am going to be giving you my life. (Not referring to casual play partners here. I'm talking about a serious relationship.) I am in control. I am nobodies submissive until I say so. I will not follow anyone's orders until they have done the work required for me to feel safe. If they choose to be too lazy to do said work. Then so be it we were not meant for one another to begin with.
A relationship is hard work. It is give and take. If someone is too damn lazy to put time into it from the beginning, what is it going to be like a year down the line?

So essentially I called all the shots until submission then power exchanged and he was in charge and has been since then.
They could call me all the names they wanted. It didn't change who I was as a person inside. Just showed me how narrow minded they were.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 2

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 10:18:53 AM

srahfox

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline

I think you are the smarter person for saying, not in the first meeting. There is one post in here from someone who accually got very hurt because she did. In many instances you are accually laying your life on the time. I don't think that makes you any less submissive than anyone else. It just makes you smarter. After all you may want to submit but that doesn't mean you HAVE to. If they are going to be childish and call you names because you won't just automatically hand your life to them, they aren't people you would really want to submit to. Why submit to someone who doesn't diserve it. Just because you are a Domanant does not automatically give you the right.
As for a way to handle it, try turning it around on them. Insist that it's for their safety. You don't want them to make any choices they will regret later.
A decent (Personality wise) person will understand and not hold it against you.
I personally would feel uncomfortable aound someone who demanded my submission the first time we accually met.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 3

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 11:21:18 AM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: srahfox

I think you are the smarter person for saying, not in the first meeting. There is one post in here from someone who accually got very hurt because she did. In many instances you are accually laying your life on the time. I don't think that makes you any less submissive than anyone else. It just makes you smarter. After all you may want to submit but that doesn't mean you HAVE to. If they are going to be childish and call you names because you won't just automatically hand your life to them, they aren't people you would really want to submit to. Why submit to someone who doesn't diserve it. Just because you are a Domanant does not automatically give you the right.
As for a way to handle it, try turning it around on them. Insist that it's for their safety. You don't want them to make any choices they will regret later.
A decent (Personality wise) person will understand and not hold it against you.
I personally would feel uncomfortable aound someone who demanded my submission the first time we accually met.

I agree. I think its very unwise and healthy to play with some one the first time you meet them. What happened to Safe? Sane? and of course Trust? I think trust is a big issue when it comes to the life and how can one possibly trust another upon first meeting? How in your right mind (and theirs for that matter) do you know who the "other" person really is and not some sex crazed maniac who thinks they this is the easiet way to get it? Would you really play with a stranger? A person unknown to you? A person you put yourself in the hands of who for all rights and purposes has no clue who you are and what you can handle? I think it comes down to trust and knowledge. You are literally putting your life into their hands. I think if you explain how and why you feel, that should be accepted. If its not accepted and they dont understand then you are the safer for it.

(in reply to srahfox)

Post #: 4

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 11:43:12 AM

cariad

Posts: 943
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline

like the other posts here, this slave has to agree........ You are the wiser person for not playing on the first meeting, as this slave has had many bad experiences from doing so until she met Master, and He set her straight.

just because you are submissive/slave does NOT mean you MUST submit to just anyone, you are NOT a doormat, NOR should you accept being treated as one.

this slave stands up for the fact that she is proud to be a slave and she does NOT submit to just anyone. this slave was once told she is fake, not a good slave, needed a good thrashing to which she replied: "i am slave, i do NOT submit to just anyone, Master is proud of who i am as His slave, and if anyone is going to give her a good thrashing it will be Master SirTigerman, NOT anyone else unless Master and this slave agree upon it."

several times this slave has faced that accusation. merely stand up for who you are, what you are and most of all Stand Up For Your Rights.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 5

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 12:37:00 PM

Destinysskeins

Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline

Greetings,

*shrugs* Personally, i'd say that if you encounter someone who cannot understand your reasonings for not playing on the first meeting then they are more than likely not the type of play partner that you need. Even moreso if they resort to personal attacks of the 'you're fake' nature. Be as polite and considerate as possible when stating your reasons and use their reaction as a litmus test to judge whether they are in fact 'play material'. If not, then encourage them to seek others more like minded to themselves and part ways with everyone happy!

Well wishes

(in reply to cariad)

Post #: 6

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 12:50:15 PM

afmvdp

Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline

I believe it all comes down to intentions between you and the other person. As a complete rule of thumb I will never play on a first meeting with someone who is interested in something serious. In the rare times when I run into someone who is so up my alley sexually, mentally, philosophically that it's just an immediate connection and yet neither of us have any desire for any long term relationship or connection other than perhaps occaisional play, then I believe it's no different at that point than any other realm of relationship. If you were to go on a vanilla date on so hit it off with a guy or girl that it lead to sex on the first date, it's really no different in that range...but it's all up to situations.

If someone is to try to force you into play on the first meeting despite your decisive decision that such will not happen, it's no different again then someone trying to force sex on a first date. Shows little tact and even less responsibility, intelligence, or understanding, certainly not things I would think could ever be associated with a respectable dom or domme

(in reply to Destinysskeins)

Post #: 7

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 1:50:28 PM

IsmyKinkyourkink

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/22/2004
Status: offline

depends a LOT on the comfort level of both. to have a hard and fast rule is a tad inflexable on either side. I personally have no problem with anyone saying that they want to get to know me better first. That shows that they are not only listening to their "lil voice" . but that they are carefull and considerate of others.

(in reply to afmvdp)

Post #: 8

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 2:13:59 PM

proudsub

Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline

quote:

If you were to go on a vanilla date on so hit it off with a guy or girl that it lead to sex on the first date, it's really no different in that range...but it's all up to situations.

With all due respect afmvdp, i do think playing in the bdsm realm is quite different than sex on the first date, at least from the sub's point of view. Being bound and made helpless by someone you don't know well is much riskier than just having sex and being free to leave at any time. IMHO.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to afmvdp)

Post #: 9

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 2:19:26 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IsmyKinkyourkink

depends a LOT on the comfort level of both. to have a hard and fast rule is a tad inflexable on either side. I personally have no problem with anyone saying that they want to get to know me better first. That shows that they are not only listening to their "lil voice" . but that they are carefull and considerate of others.

I do have to admit that i have put my life in the hands of another upon meeting them. Comfort level i suppose. I've never done it before and i've only done it once in my life. Something was just there..... Instinctual trust maybe? But i dont suggest it because not everyone is as lucky as I am. Of course there are the years and years before it that I never once put my life in the hands of another.... but thats another story

I ment to add this the first time, but i got alittle consumed with the trust thing = )

(in reply to IsmyKinkyourkink)

Post #: 10

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 2:25:51 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: IsmyKinkyourkink

depends a LOT on the comfort level of both. to have a hard and fast rule is a tad inflexable on either side. I personally have no problem with anyone saying that they want to get to know me better first. That shows that they are not only listening to their "lil voice" . but that they are carefull and considerate of others.

I do have to admit that i have put my life in the hands of another upon meeting them. Comfort level i suppose. I've never done it before and i've only done it once in my life. Something was just there..... Instinctual trust maybe? But i dont suggest it because not everyone is as lucky as I am. Of course there are the years and years before it that I never once put my life in the hands of another.... but thats another story

I ment to add this the first time, but i got alittle consumed with the trust thing = )

Er, I still dont think I put it right. In general people can not be trusted. There are alot of crazies out there. If you have your Master then that is all you need to trust, His judgement. For some reason, I did it, once. Something in my soul must of known it was okay because it went against alot of things i believe in. I am the happier for it. I just dont suggest it, because like i said a minute ago, you may not be as lucky as I am.

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 11

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 3:11:49 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

If you have your Master then that is all you need to trust, His judgement.

I have to say I disagree with this, though it of course depends on the dynamic of the realtionship in question. We tend to rely heavily on each other's opinions to confirm our own, so it's alright and wise for me to listen to my inner voice, too.

There are times, as well, when I think dominant partners fail to read someone properly. i think this can happen even with their submissive partner. That is, they might put their submissive partner in a situation which is not the best thing for her to do, mentally or physically, because they misread a reaction, or misinterpret something. I think this is where a submissive partner needs to protect herself and be able to vocalize what he/she's feeling.

Again, though, depends on the dynamic invovled.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 12

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 3:21:23 PM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

I think it would be useful to define "play" before you say it is an absolute no. Perhaps you mean that you won't put yourself in a potentially unsafe situation like being bound in a hotel room, however sitting in a park and getting a nipple twisted might be perfectly alright because your arms would be free and you could scratch out his eyes and run away if he got carried away.

I also think distance is an issue. I mean, it is kinda difficult to justify driving 3 hours to meet someone if you know there is absolutely no chance for more even if things go perfectly. Of course, you should retain the option to just leave if you get creeped out, but you could also remain open to giving him a hand job or something if things go well.

Anyway, just throwing out ideas here.

One more thing -- if these guys are local and insisting on playing on the first meeting, I'd reconsider meeting them at all.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 13

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 4:45:42 PM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

Er, I still dont think I put it right. In general people can not be trusted. There are alot of crazies out there. If you have your Master then that is all you need to trust, His judgement. For some reason, I did it, once. Something in my soul must of known it was okay because it went against alot of things i believe in. I am the happier for it. I just dont suggest it, because like i said a minute ago, you may not be as lucky as I am.

Midear Riiiot-

you're geting it across- sort of spiraling in on it, but you are getting there<g>...

I am of two minds, myself, on this. I do think it's wise to be cautious- there are alot of crazies out there, as you said. There are also quite a few wonderful people out there, and fantastic experiances just waiting for us to stumble onto them. I'd say that one really shouldn't rule out the possiblity- some of the best scenes I have worked were what I call 'lightning striking'- they just spontanously start, often with someone I have only just met- sometimes, we really haven't even met when it starts. I really have done aftercare that started with "were you here by yourself? and uh-what is your name?"

Still- it's not what I would advise to anyone- and I would advise that anyone that insisted that you work with them on a first meeting should likely be avoided. It's likely that they just don't understand this stuff. And if they were really a dominant, they wouldn't have to insist- you'd be putty before the power of their domly mojo<g>... try telling that to the next one that gets whiney!

Stay warm,
Lawrence

< Message edited by topcat -- 10/25/2004 4:46:40 PM >

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to RiotGirl)

Post #: 14

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 5:19:13 PM

karmaslave

Posts: 57
Joined: 10/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I am told, time and again, that my 'submissive nature' will take over and I will just -have- to play with said person.

I use a phrase similar to that with the girls I know. I don't think it works very well.

quote:

Along the same lines, do you think it is possible for a submissive person to say (and remain true to) this idea? How does one avoid being manipulated into violating said rule?

Chicks have this saying, you know, they slap their boyfriends across the cheeks and scream, "Think with the head on your shoulders!" and then you're in the dog-house, but that's digressing.

So, you know, think with your head (the one on your shoulders!), and just say "No!"

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 15

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 5:32:53 PM

TahoeSadist

Posts: 176
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

"As the submissive partner rather than the dominant one, I find that I am not allowed (by those with whom I speak) to say that I do not play on a first meeting. I am told, time and again, that my 'submissive nature' will take over and I will just -have- to play with said person. Well, that among many things."

Ok, well my first instinct to the "not allowed to say..." line is that you should tell them to stick it up their ass (assuming there is room in it beside their head)
On further reflection, I'm going to go with that reply as my final answer.
As to not playing on the first meeting, I am a firm believer in that policy, for myself and others. Speaking for myself, I prefer to get to know a person first, and state flat out that a first meeting has *no* possibility of play (and yes, I have been very very tempted to break that rule)
This is a similar concept to me to the asking for freferences question, and I believe that it should be handled the same way: Directly, clearly, and honestly. After all, if someone cannot accept that from you, how can you believe they'll respect *any* limit? Plus, they way they take the news will tell you a bit about their personality, and whether you wish to be involved with them. They say "Fair enough, lets meet and get to know each other and see if it'll be something to pursue at a later date" you may have something here. If they throw a temper tantrum, or try to talk you out of your stance, then to me they're just desperate, manipulative, immature wannabes, who have no respect for you already (yeah, that's the sugar-coated, nice version of what I think)
Lastly, when it comes to your limits, your groundrules, etc. do not let what someone may think or say change it. *You* are responsible for your own safety and health, physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Eric

_____________________________

As long as one of us enjoys it, it's not a total waste

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 16

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 5:39:41 PM

serenity2u

Posts: 25
Joined: 7/9/2004
From: MSN
Status: offline

Playing on first meeting well I have to say I have to go by what I was taught .. Not to play . It is a session to which two people talk over their places their situations if intersts perk or if theres any compatibility.. Alot of talk I donot see the time to play.. Its a big step if considered and I myself would like it to be right and proper.. In my opinion I believe play should be on the waiting list. There has to be negotiations and limits and even if you want contracts all those things before I, myself, would even consider on before being played with. Im sorry to be a old fashioned sub but I want it right and respectful, all good things come to those who wait ..So this is my own opinion may not be anyone elses but I prefer to be surprised and guessing ... smiles serenity
be safe and sane and consensual

_____________________________

serenity

(in reply to karmaslave)

Post #: 17

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 5:58:06 PM

newflowers

Posts: 292
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline

I had to take a moment to read the referenced thread.

I too have a no playing on the first meeting rule. As I believe any rule must have a specific rationale for its creation and adherence, mine is for safety's sake - physical and emotional. As Proudsub said, a submissive playing on the first date is a little different than have "vanilla" sex as the possibility for being hurt is greater. And frankly, I am in no way willing to be tied up or spanked or flogged or anything else by someone I do not know and do not trust. There are clubs around for that sort of play should I so desire to engage.

I find the "no first date play rule" to be an excellent test. Those who complain and call names and make accusations - no matter how charming they were five minutes before - are NOT for me. "My submissive nature will just take over" - give me a break - I am not lead by my hormonal urges and have been thinking with the brain between my ears for many years. Saying no this time usually precedes the "you're obvoulsy not submissive" line. I consider these sorts of things big red flags from someone who is looking to get into your panties (well, get you out of them).

I will freely admit that there have been a couple of times that I've wanted more than a kiss goodbye at the end of a meet - not often, but it happens. This is what I know:

1. If the first date no play rule is a problem, he was probably looking for play without the responsibility of ownership nor did he wish to take time to build a relationship in the first place. I am better off without this one.

2. If there are the accusations etc. - refer to lesson one.

3. When I want to be carried away - I refer to lesson one.

People will say any number of things to get what they want and it is easy via email,chat,im, and phone to present yourself as a smooth, charming and utterly divine Dom Perfect. Waiting a date - or two or three or four - the facade will fade and the mask will slip. Sometimes, it is hard because you want what you want so much. I was once told that IF he is serious about ME, the wait is not that big of a deal. His goal will be to break down my defenses and breach the gate (don't you love the castle seige analogy). Being a Master with a capital "M" is about more than using the toys, slipping in somewhere warm and wet, and going home.

I have chosen to accept that lesson. I read the boards here and elsewhere and think, often times, it is easy to spot someone who is a capital "M" and those who are lower case "m's" - time always tells.

You know why you have the safety rules that you've made for yourself. I notice that many submissive women have very similar rules. We have them for very specific reasons. Your safety and well-being must be your primary concern. If "Dom Cranky" wants to accuse and cast aspersions - let him do so - move on to better possibilities.

newflowers

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 18

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 6:06:29 PM

ChrisGreen

Posts: 103
Joined: 10/9/2004
Status: offline

Stick to your views, do what you want, if the others do not like it, well they are not worth meeting anyway.

A true dominant cares about the submissive and will always respect the wishes of the sub, and if the dom is there as part of a relationship, then that should seal it as far as responsible dominants are concerned.

If these people are name calling, and behaving like food throwing juveniles then that is probably what they are.

Do you want to submit to some juvenile hyped up on a domination kick?

I certainly don't.

Regards

_____________________________

Chris Green

Matron, sister or nurse wanted,
to administer discipline to unruly patient.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 19

RE: Playing on a first meeting - 10/25/2004 6:28:07 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

quote:

Er, I still dont think I put it right. In general people can not be trusted. There are alot of crazies out there. If you have your Master then that is all you need to trust, His judgement. For some reason, I did it, once. Something in my soul must of known it was okay because it went against alot of things i believe in. I am the happier for it. I just dont suggest it, because like i said a minute ago, you may not be as lucky as I am.

Midear Riiiot-

you're geting it across- sort of spiraling in on it, but you are getting there<g>...

I am of two minds, myself, on this. I do think it's wise to be cautious- there are alot of crazies out there, as you said. There are also quite a few wonderful people out there, and fantastic experiances just waiting for us to stumble onto them. I'd say that one really shouldn't rule out the possiblity- some of the best scenes I have worked were what I call 'lightning striking'- they just spontanously start, often with someone I have only just met- sometimes, we really haven't even met when it starts. I really have done aftercare that started with "were you here by yourself? and uh-what is your name?"

Still- it's not what I would advise to anyone- and I would advise that anyone that insisted that you work with them on a first meeting should likely be avoided. It's likely that they just don't understand this stuff. And if they were really a dominant, they wouldn't have to insist- you'd be putty before the power of their domly mojo<g>... try telling that to the next one that gets whiney!

Stay warm,
Lawrence

<grins> Oh its just too damn bad I am not looking anymore because that would be wonderful to use! <laughs> I think you got it right with the "insist" part. Anyone that INSISTS to play on the first time is some one you prolly should stay away from. I know in my case it wasnt insisted, I had a reference and I already knew Him abit before actually meeting him. So maybe it wasnt as completely the same thing.

You seemed to have summed it up perfectly.

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 20

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