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Ishtarr -> RE: ProDoms are fake? (1/31/2012 11:03:31 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Awareness
Let's face it. This is not an arena which requires any demonstration of qualification, training, experience or intention to provide value. So even without considering the subjective nature of what constitutes value, fact is, there's no independent verification of whether a Pro is providing any value whatsoever beyond the testimony of compromised individuals trying to feed a need which is probably founded in dysfunction.
That's irrelevant.
There are plenty of other occupations out there that require no demonstration of qualification, training, experience or intention to provide value. Modeling is one of them, as is cleaning.
A pro-Domme exchanges money for her time and her equipment.
If both those things where provided, the value that was negotiated prior to the exchange has indeed be exchanged and the value that was asked for by the client has been provided.
The fact that you don't consider a pro-Dommes time and equipment of value to yourself doesn't mean that there aren't other people who do.
Why is trading money for a pro-Domme's time any different than trading money for a masseuse's time? Or a model's time? Or a house sitter's time?
In all those exchanges the client is willing to pay for the time of a person for an act that doesn't have an intrinsic value other than the value the client places on it. ProDomming isn't any different from them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Awareness
Indeed, the probability the Pro is feeding that dysfunction with the ultimate goal of stringing along the client as long as humanly possible is incredibly high. After all, they are in it for the money.
Most people I know are in their profession for the money.
It's a rare person who goes to work every morning out of humanitarian concerns.
I don't know if proDommes are indeed more likely to string clients along, like you claim, but I do know that such behaviors are rather common and not at all limited to proDommes.
I could go into a list of professions and ways people can be guilty of this behavior, but I don't really think I have to.
Since when does the probability of an individual doing something wrong reflect of the moral character of an entire group? Come on Awareness, you know enough about logic, ethics and arguments to know that the above doesn't have any meaningful bearing on whether or not proDomming is in it's very own essence a moral or amoral thing to do.
I have 4 fillings I should have because the dentist I was seeing at the time was short on cash and lied to me about the dental work that needed to be done. She strung me along for 4 consecutive appointment, having me spend tons of needless money, and then tried to pressure me into having other things done, all because I was concerned about my health. She was clearly only in it for the money.
Are all dentists bad now?
In any case, even if you're right, and proDommes are more likely to use unethical business practices, that still doesn't proof that proDomming in it's essence is amoral. It just proofs that there is a higher likely hood of amoral individuals in that specific profession. Again, I can list you other professions for which the same thing applies.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Awareness
However, what I see is an incredible piece of hypocrisy on the part of Pros and their supporters. Take a look at any male/female D/s relationship and you will see a social more within this community which expresses the idea that a dominant is responsible for his sub. Submissive women are constantly advised to get out of exploitative relationships because no Dominant worth his salt desires to exploit his submissive. And yet here we have Pros admitting to exploiting male submissives and justifying it on the basis that those submissives are weak and stupid and thus deserve it.
I presume next time an idiot sub comes on here and tells a tale of her Dom exploiting the living fuck out of her, that those Pros and their sycophants will just shut the fuck up or tell her she's stupid and therefore deserves to be exploited. Because, after all, that's the very law of the jungle they use to justify their exploitation of those men who are weak and stupid enough to hire them.
Basically, I'm not a fan of hypocrisy, but I see an awful lot of it. It's one of the reasons I tend to ignore a lot of what women say, particularly here. Nine times out of ten, if you bother, you can tear apart their self-deluding nonsense with ease.
Now there I'm totally with you.
You're right that the hypocrisy is awful and that a proDomme stringing a client along with the illusion and promises of a real relationship, and really bonding and really feelings to then drain him is every bit as amoral as a Dom using up a sub he supposedly has a relationship with.
However, the fact that those two things are equally bad doesn't mean that an honest proDomme transaction (as in both client and proDomme know that they are exchanging time for money... not for illusions) is also amoral.
When a proDomme transaction is done properly and honestly, it's not any different than getting a massage. In fact, it's rather similar to that; the main difference being the type of sensation the client is paying for.
If you're going to vilify amoral proDommes who string their clients along with lies, false promises and generally other despicable behavior, then by all means do. But making the false generalizations you're been making doesn't make your argument against proDommes seem logical, it just makes it seem personal.
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