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Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 3/31/2004 10:11:27 PM

TongueSlave

Posts: 1
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

This is a great site for people to explore BDSM and possibly meet somone. It sickens me to see some women out here pretending to be doms under the pretext to get guys to pay them "tributes" to prove they are worthy or to be "money slaves." These women will never meet you and will never engage in an ongoing on-line relationship with you. Why do guys fall for this? Anyone care to comment?

Post #: 1

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/1/2004 5:08:47 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TongueSlave

This is a great site for people to explore BDSM and possibly meet somone. It sickens me to see some women out here pretending to be doms under the pretext to get guys to pay them "tributes" to prove they are worthy or to be "money slaves." These women will never meet you and will never engage in an ongoing on-line relationship with you. Why do guys fall for this? Anyone care to comment?

Is this your personal experience with women who are expecting tribute? From where do you pull your experience that tells you that no woman who is into financial domination will meet you and that all women who ask for tribute will never meet you or engage in an ongoing on-line relationship?

Welcome to the boards.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to TongueSlave)

Post #: 2

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/1/2004 5:48:56 AM

ShadowHwk

Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TongueSlave

This is a great site for people to explore BDSM and possibly meet somone. It sickens me to see some women out here pretending to be doms under the pretext to get guys to pay them "tributes" to prove they are worthy or to be "money slaves." These women will never meet you and will never engage in an ongoing on-line relationship with you. Why do guys fall for this? Anyone care to comment?

I commented on this when I first came to CollarMe... but I have had a change of heart so to speak. If it works for both parties then who am I to judge? Some that do the financial tribute thing are real, others are not and it is just scam. If someone is not willing to take the time to get to know you I would advise NOT sending them anything. If the Domme is willing to take the time to get to know you via email, chatting and/or phone calls then that is a good sign.

Terry

(in reply to TongueSlave)

Post #: 3

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/1/2004 6:52:49 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

It's predation. Pure and simple. There is no way around it. I don't care if she's willing to get to know you or not. If she wants to take you as a slave, give you discipline and direction, take charge of your life, and then put you to work earning money which you will give to her to manage and provide for your needs, that in my book is a different matter. If the extent of the interaction is "get on your knees and open your wallet sissy boy" then it's just an unscruplous predator who has learned how to earn a living (or at least some spending cash) without having to earn it.

Predation as I am describing it is taking unethical or immoral advantage of a weakness in another. Rape is a form of predation where a man uses his superior strength and agressiveness to secure sex from a woman. Child molestation is a similar form of predation that takes advantage not only of the lesser physical strength of the victim, but also a child's lesser ability to comprehend adult sexual interactions. This whole "money slave" thing is the same. The weakness being exploited is the need in a man, for whatevever reason, to be victimized by a woman. Maybe he feels unworthy of the attentions of an attractive woman (or at least a woman who has posted an attractive picture), maybe it's something else. The goal of the predation is in this case money, not sex, but it is predation none the less. Maybe there are women out there who really do enjoy this kind of scening and give the money back after the "scene" is over. I haven't seen any yet. Until I do, my not so humble opinion about this will remain as I have stated it here.

Take care of yourselves.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/1/2004 7:02:00 PM >

(in reply to TongueSlave)

Post #: 4

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/1/2004 8:25:38 PM

BlackGoddess

Posts: 68
Joined: 2/1/2004
Status: offline

If a sub wants to have Me in control of him financially, then what's wrong with that? There are a lot worse things he can spend his money on. :)

BlackGoddess aka Queen Janai

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 5

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 7:42:52 AM

Chaos

Posts: 30
Joined: 4/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

If a sub wants to have Me in control of him financially, then what's wrong with that?

I don't think anyone was questioning a true D/s relationship. The problem was with women who are extorting money from men under the color of a "Dom" title. I'm in agreement w/ Leonidas on that one. imho.

(in reply to TongueSlave)

Post #: 6

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 4:02:26 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

What the hell? Are we talking about children or adults here? If some dopey male sub wants to give his money to a female so she will pay attention to him, that is his decision. Predation? Sorry, we are talking about adult men who should know better. And if they don't, that is their problem. No one is forcing them to give anything. And I would bet that many of them " get off " on being treated in this manner.

(in reply to Chaos)

Post #: 7

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 4:57:25 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Same goes for grown women? So, lets say I tell a woman that I met on the internet and happens to be taken with me that if she is really my slave she will send me half of her paycheck each week to prove her loyalty. If she doesn't then she isn't really my slave and I won't have any more to do with her because she has failed in her slavery and isn't worthy to kneel at my feet. That's OK because she's a grown woman and should know better?

Nice try, but sorry. not buying. I'd be a piece of shit if I did that, and I hope that you would point that fact out to me. The accumulation of personal power carries with it the responsibility to know the difference between when you can get someone to do something, and when you should. Anyone who hasn't learned that lesson is not a dominant, they are just a dangerous asshole, and yes, a predator.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/2/2004 5:01:43 PM >

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 8

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 5:13:10 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Have control of him financially, or take his money and spend it?

I know a couple in San Fransisco. I've known them for years. He is her slave and has been for going on 2 decades. He works, he comes home, he hands over the money that he earns. She decides what will be spent, and what will be invested. She decides what clothes to buy for him, and when it's important to invest in his education so that he can continue to earn money. She puts money aside for him so that if anything happens to them, or her, he won't be penniless. She has control of him financially, and she probably does a better job than he would do for himself. It's probably one of the reasons that he is submitted to her.

If this is the kind of scenario that you are talking about, then I see nothing wrong with it at all. If you are talking about trolling for men who want to be humilliated by being harrangued into handing over money to you so that you can go spend it, that isn't having financial control of them, it's taking advantage of them. If you don't see the difference, then there really isn't any more that I can say about this to you.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

(in reply to BlackGoddess)

Post #: 9

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 5:34:55 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Same goes for grown women? So, lets say I tell a woman that I met on the internet and happens to be taken with me that if she is really my slave she will send me half of her paycheck each week to prove her loyalty. If she doesn't then she isn't really my slave and I won't have any more to do with her because she has failed in her slavery and isn't worthy to kneel at my feet. That's OK because she's a grown woman and should know better?

Nice try, but sorry. not buying. I'd be a piece of shit if I did that, and I hope that you would point that fact out to me. The accumulation of personal power carries with it the responsibility to know the difference between when you can get someone to do something, and when you should. Anyone who hasn't learned that lesson is not a dominant, they are just a dangerous asshole, and yes, a predator.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

I happen to agree with you regarding the scenario you describe. My problem is the broad reaching assumption that all financial domination is comparable and that is simply incorrect. There is no room in your black & white assumption of 'all financial domination' for interpretation, for kinks that are different from yours, for different goals and preferences. By what route did you come to your conclusions about financial domination; and do you believe that your experiences were wide enough to qualify you to make broad statements of condemnation?

This is a very tired argument, often met with similar misguided self-rightousness. Might I suggest one of the first threads on these boards? This argument was played out then (and on every message board that hosts both lifestyle, pro and lifestyle/pro) and there is nothing new in your argument.

As for the original poster, I'm still waiting for the answers to my question. I'm looking forward to hearing them. What did he do to acquire the knowledge to make such broad statements of condemnation?

Even my agreement with the assessment of the above described scenario does not preclude the truth of personal responsibility. In the instance you describe I see one predator and one stupid individual. One does not negate the other.

For the record, financial domination is not my kink. I do, however, know a lot of people (tops and bottoms) who it IS a very real part of their kink. Broad statements like the above only serve to try to shame those who get enough of the same from the rest of society.

It would seem to me that the most appropriate response would be "financial domination is not my cup of tea." The end. But it does seem to ruffle the feathers of many. Curious, the power we give things.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 10

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 5:39:01 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Of course that is taking advantage of them. But we are talking about grown men here. If they choose to give their money in this manner, who's fault is that? It seems to me that the woman is fulfilling a need the sub has. I wouldn't do it. And I don't applaud the motives of the woman, but they are all adults. And no one is being forced into anything.

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 11

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 6:09:19 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

I think I've been very clear about what I think is ethical, and what is not. I've pointed out a scenario that I think is fine, and another that I think is ethically repugnant. I'll say it again. If the object of the interaction is for the dominant party to get money for themselves using the submissive orientation of the other party as leverage, then it's wrong. Is that "misguided self-righteousness"? Maybe it is to you. I don't know. Instead of taking the ambiguous high ground, maybe you'd like to offer some scenario other than the ones that I have listed that you do find ethically justified?

Your arguements here smack of the same tired logic that I've heard for years that we shouldn't even consider the ethical implications of anything that anyone else does if they can claim it as their "kink". Baloney. The need for deliberate, clear, adult consideration of the ethical consequences of our actions is more important in this lifestyle, not less. We don't have the bright lines of what our parents taught us to rely upon. We have to think, and consider carefully what is acceptable behavior, and what isn't. For me, this kind of behavior isn't, and I don't mind saying so. I'm sure that there is behavior that you feel the same way about, or maybe not. I suppose that is why there are forums like these. Opinions do vary.

Take care of yourself,

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/2/2004 6:14:18 PM >

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 12

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/2/2004 6:43:09 PM

EStrict

Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

I may be off base, but this is how I see the difference in the examples Leondis offered.

Though many who are not in the would not believe the lifestyle is filled with anything but danger, sickness, and abusers, those who live with in the lifestyle know this is not the case for most. There is a difference between a dominant who ties up their submissive, beating them with whips, floggers, canes, and belts than a husband who throws his wife to the floor and beats her because he is mad, angry whatever.

Now, it could be argued this in this case, these guys *want* this. But what I saw being questioned was the newbies who are being taken advantage of because they don't know what to expect or what they need. Also, I do not consider those who make informed choices in the lifestyle the same as those who are so emotionally needy or have so little self respect that feel they don't deserve any better than the mistreatment of the abusive spouse or the money dominant type that was originally being discussed.

Am I close Sir?

< Message edited by EStrict -- 4/2/2004 6:44:46 PM >

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 13

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/3/2004 9:12:07 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

I've been around this life going on 18 years now. Not as long as some, but a good while. In that time, I have never seen anyone who was looking specifically for "money slaves" for whom it was about anything other than the money. There may be a woman (or man) out there for whom it isn't about the money, and really does enjoy the power of getting a sub to hand over the cash, but I haven's seen one yet. To my mind it's no different than the stripper who lures some poor rube into the back room for lap dances at 20 dollars a pop. The rube is always hoping for something more, shelling out his 20s, but in the final analysis the stripper is just there for the money, her coy suggestions to the contrary notwithstanding. When the rube runs out of 20s, the fun is over, and the stripper is on to someone else.

It's funny the blind spots that we have in this life sometimes. If we see a man who goes from sub woman to sub woman, always hinting at the promise of something long term, but really just fucking them and moving on, or worse yet fucking them once in a while and stringing them along, we say, without doubt "hey, there's an asshole". If he said "hey, don't judge me, duping women into giving up pussy is my "kink". They're grown woman, and obviously they want to be treated this way or they wouldn't do it". We'd say "bullshit" and rightly so. Every single somebody that I've ever seen in 18 years who trolls for "money slaves" is doing the very same, it's just money, instead of sex, that's being extracted.

I have no problem with pro dommes. Men who see them do so, from what I have seen, for the same reason that men use prostitutes. They get the interaction without any complications. They know the pro isn't going to become attached, or out them to the folks who would shun them if they knew about their kinks, or call at a time when their wife is likely to answer. The whole money slave thing is different, for the reasons that I have stated. To your point, yes it does often target the newbie sub who knows he wants to be dominated, and is willing to "pay tribute" to be put in that position. As I've said clearly, I think, I find it to be an unethical practice in our community. I know others have differing views, perhaps based on some experience other than mine, or based, perhaps, on the guiding principal that anything that someone claims as their "kink" in this life is by definition OK. That is a bankrupt view in my opinion, but as I have said, opinions do vary.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/3/2004 11:55:25 AM >

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 14

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/3/2004 10:21:04 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I don't see anyone here defending the actions of these " money Doms ". I sure don't. But anyone who would give money to them is just as much at fault. They are thinking with the wrong head. Just as any guy who would pay for a lap dance and expect anything more. These guys aren't victims. They are foolish.
And as for the original question of why any sub would do it? Because they want to.

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 15

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/3/2004 11:57:30 PM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

quote:

as any guy who would pay for a lap dance and expect anything more.

M. Estring-

Ahhh- there's the rub...

I paid for a lap dance just about an hour ago---- But I didn't expect anything more (I even tipped a little better than usual, as she seemed 'honestly insincrere' and amde it seem funny).

Point being- if they pay- who's losing?

Stay warm,

Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 16

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/4/2004 5:47:27 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I'm really not going to debate this issue much more, as I've said, it's been debated to death. I will throw out a scenario for your consideration, however.

A man contacts a woman. He wants nothing other than to meet her (who he doesn't know from adam) once a week at a gas station to fill up her gas tank. That's what "sends" him. He doesn't want to get to know her, he doesn't want her to think of him more than 'oh, it's the day to get my fill up again.' He establishes a routine to fill her gas tank and occasionally gives her cash on the days that he meets her. These two people follow this routine for three years, never knowing anything other than each other's phone number. Both people are quite content with the way the interaction goes.

I can't see how this would make the dominant a predator. Opportunistic, perhaps; but not a predator.

Use the same scenario but instead of filling up a gas tank make it "mail her X (x could be new shoes, cash, leather wear, toys, etc." Same situation. I see no predator nor any victim in this.

One situation (the one that is on your mind) assumes ill intent, the situations I describe do not.

I know from first hand experience there are a LOT of guys out there who WANT to be used this way...it IS their 'kink' and the anonymity of it all is just as much a part of what sends them as the giving itself. They don't WANT to be thought of, it would ruin their fantasy.

My point is that there is a world of types out there and to say "all of x is wrong" is wrong. Simply wrong.

Although I can certainly see that some people enjoy the rush they get from being high and mighty. I suppose anything that fills our self esteem gaps is ok, even if it discriminates against people we know nothing about. By all means, let's rush to judge, condemn and assume we know more than we do.

I think I'll pass.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 17

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/4/2004 1:32:53 PM

MistressKiss

Posts: 295
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I guess I am a hopelessly romantic old fashioned girl. I would much rather be surprised with special gifts, cards, flowers, warm fuzzies, than to have to ask for them or demand them. I would expect such things, such surprises, from my submissive.

_____________________________

"I assure you, Your Honor, I don't have to practice...I'm very good at them..."
(The Marquis de Sade at one of his trials for the sexual perversities he practiced)

(in reply to TongueSlave)

Post #: 18

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/4/2004 2:12:47 PM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

And so any of what you just said here has to do with this thread, exactly how? The original post was about women who look for "money slaves" and demand tribute from them. I agree with you, the scenarios that you offer here are fine and dandy. Subs often do want to give gifts to the object of their affection. If the guy wants to fill your gas tank, swell, but again, that has nothing to do with this thread, or my objection to those who troll for "money slaves" and demand cash tributes as proof of their submission. I think the only point of this post (if it has one) is the "high and mighty" swipe at me. I agree with you. You've said enough.

Take care of yourself.

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 4/4/2004 2:15:10 PM >

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 19

RE: Money Slaves-Why would you be one? - 4/4/2004 4:57:28 PM

iwillserveu

Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

As a male sub that laughs at those profiles I might have good input. Giving money to a woman I'll never meet is not my idea of a good thing. Would I come between a fool and his money? ("A fool" to me, being tied up and wearing a chastity belt sure would be foolish to some.

)

Are some of the women predators? I would say most are. So? Hey, if a guy posted that crap and got a woman to send him money "to be fully his" it would concern me, um, how exactly?

Like Estring said, these are adults, right? (Male or female.) Should I agree to have me protected from myself?

Protect newbies fro making choices you don't agree with (and I agree they are stupid choices) and you set up someone to say I can't make my own choice to be spanked.

Even though Leonidas is sane why should he draw the line. The next guy with pencil might not be sane.

(Side note: If anyone thinks this post is brimming with attitude, so? How do I for a valid argument without disagreeing with someone? Subs are allowed to disagree with those that are not their Dom/me.)

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to Leonidas)

Post #: 20

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