Should she be allowed to run?

Should she be allowed to run? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 9:39:07 AM)
PHOENIX (Reuters) - A woman barred from seeking elected office in an Arizona border town by a judge who ruled she did not have a sufficient grasp of English has decided to fight the controversial ruling, and filed an appeal on Friday, her lawyer said. A Yuma County judge disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, a U.S. citizen born in Yuma, from running for a seat on the city council in the town of San Luis this week for what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve on the council. "It was clear to the court that she was stymied by many questions, did not understand many questions, failed to comprehend what was being asked, and guessed at answers," the court ruling said. The judge, in a move that sparked a debate over language in often bilingual U.S.-Mexican border communities, said Cabrera's English was not of the level needed to carry out the professional duties required of a representative of the public. http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-candidate-appeals-english-ability-court-decision-035003512.html

Aylee -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 9:44:09 AM)
The article states that the law says that there is a requirement for English proficiency. Can they just give her the English part of the GED test and see how she does? If she passes, she can run.

OsideGirl -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 9:47:16 AM)
You have to ask yourself, why a US Citizen, born in the US does not have a proficiency in English.

kdsub -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 10:05:44 AM)
I believe all candidates running for public office anywhere in the United States must be able to pass the same English requirements as naturalized citizens...If not then they should not be allowed to run. If they do then it should be up to the voters if their English skills are a determining factor in their elections through their votes. Butch

DaddySatyr -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 10:34:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl You have to ask yourself, why a US Citizen, born in the US does not have a proficiency in English. I'd like to expand on this ... I think there's only two ways to look at this: 1) This person was born in the US and went to school and the school system failed her. If this is the case, we should be ashamed of how our school system, indeed, our society has failed this person (and probably others) and we should bend over backwards to get her proficient in English so that she can run and serve. 2) This person was born in the US and her parents never bothered to learn to speak English and never instilled upon her how important it was. They sent her to one of these "new" schools that are popping up all over where the entire curriculum is in Spanish. She never ventured too far out of her own neighborhood (where she wouldn't need to speak English to go about her life) and now, she wants to be elected to a district that is probably mostly Spanish-speaking and, by extension, not service any non-Spanish speaking people that happen to live in her district. I think this second scenario establishes a dangerous precedent that should not be set (should she be allowed to run). Look, anyone that doesn't want to learn English is welcome to live in their own closed-off little world but, why should we change requirements that have stood for centuries to make a few lazy people happy? Seriously, how hard do you have to *try* to avoid learning a language, when you live in the country? How many immigrants come to this country and learn English just by watching TV? I think this is the epitome of arrogance. "I don't want to learn English and I want you to change the whole system for me". Well, I want to be 4 inches taller and 15 years younger. You want to blame her parents? That works, to a point but, she's been an adult, capable of acquiring her own "education" for how many years? I have all the sympathy in the world for the person in the first scenario. The person in the second scenario can hang by their thumbs and whistle "Dixie" before I'll worry about changing the lives of millions to suit her arrogant demands. Peace and comfort, Michael

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 10:58:16 AM)
If she is a citizen who never cared enough to learn to speak English, I gotta say no, she should not be allowed to run for office. I also gotta say every time I think I have heard it all, something like this comes up. WTF doesn't know the language of the country they were born in?

DomDaddy155 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 11:30:39 AM)
No, she should not be allowed to run. A basic proficiency in english is critical to being able to function in this country. I have even less sympathy for the woman because she was BORN HERE and never took the time or effort to learn it correctly. (It is taught in school from K through 12) This was either laziness on her part or some stupid sense of entitlement that she felt that she didn't need to. Case in point, one of my sisters got hired for a high level job at Latina Magazine. Part of the job requirement was that she be able to speak and function in Spanish proficiently. She didn't speak a word of Spanish, so she took a Berlitz course and within two weeks she was speaking Spanish as well as any native. She understood what she needed to do and she got it done. So I have zero sympathy for anyone too lazy or stupid to learn english, especially when they were born here.

DarkSteven -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 12:03:54 PM)
I'd like to be liberal. But I cannot see how someone could be effective without a basic knowledge of English. That said, I cannot abide by the judge's decision that the judge arbitrarily decide whether her English is adequate. We need a standardized test. Wouldn't hurt to also require basic knowledge of civics, law, and business as well.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 12:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub WTF doesn't know the language of the country they were born in? Go to miami sometime and meet a couple of hundred thousand of them.

Zonie63 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 12:26:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I'd like to be liberal. But I cannot see how someone could be effective without a basic knowledge of English. That said, I cannot abide by the judge's decision that the judge arbitrarily decide whether her English is adequate. We need a standardized test. Wouldn't hurt to also require basic knowledge of civics, law, and business as well. The judge's ruling was based on a test conducted by a sociolinguistics expert. http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2012/01/30/20120130arizona-candidate-barred-over-english-skills-appeals.html quote: Nelson's ruling was based on tests administered by a sociolinguistics expert, as well as her inability to respond to questions posed to her in English at last week's hearing in Yuma. The removal of Cabrera from the ballot also stemmed from a Dec. 14 complaint made by former mayor Guillermina Fuentes that Cabrera isn't fluent in English, according to The Sun. Fuentes claimed she has acted as an interpreter for Cabrera. Sociolinguistics expert William Eggington presented the court with results of three different tests he administered to Cabrera, who graduated from Kofa High School in Yuma. One measured her English-speaking skill, another was to determine if she reads the language, and the third was to assess her level of English comprehension. Eggington's report said Cabrera's English skills did not meet the level of language proficiency needed to serve on the council.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 12:53:05 PM)
FR: If she is a citizen, and meets all the legal requirements for running for office, then the judge has no right to exclude her. If English proficiency is a local or state requirement, and the Supreme Court has not invalidated it, then the judge can block her. Thems the law. However, the real question is: should English be the "official" language of the US? Firm

Hillwilliam -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 12:59:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY However, the real question is: should English be the "official" language of the US? Firm YES

BitaTruble -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 1:51:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl PHOENIX (Reuters) - A woman barred from seeking elected office in an Arizona border town by a judge who ruled she did not have a sufficient grasp of English has decided to fight the controversial ruling, and filed an appeal on Friday, her lawyer said. A Yuma County judge disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, a U.S. citizen born in Yuma, from running for a seat on the city council in the town of San Luis this week for what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve on the council. "It was clear to the court that she was stymied by many questions, did not understand many questions, failed to comprehend what was being asked, and guessed at answers," the court ruling said. The judge, in a move that sparked a debate over language in often bilingual U.S.-Mexican border communities, said Cabrera's English was not of the level needed to carry out the professional duties required of a representative of the public. http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-candidate-appeals-english-ability-court-decision-035003512.html I searched through their city charter and found no requirement in that document which requires any English proficiency of any level to be a requirement to be placed on the ballot. I did some further research and found prop 106 which was passed and then a back and forth went on for a few years with it until it was ultimately struck down by the Arizona Supreme Court as a violation of the 1st ammendment. This is from their charter in regard to nominations of elected officials: Sec. 6. Nomination for primary election. The City Council, by ordinance, shall direct the City Clerk to make available to all candidates for any City office a petition form for nomination at a primary election. The nomination form must contain the signatures of qualified electors of the City aggregating not less than three percent (3%) nor more than five percent (5%) of the total number of valid ballots cast at the last preceding general municipal election. The petitions may be presented to the City Clerk not earlier than one hundred twenty (120) days nor later than ninety (90) days before the date set for the primary election. The City Clerk shall certify the petition indicating that the required number of signatures of qualified electors has been obtained and such certification shall cause the candidate's name to be printed on the ballot. (Gen. Elec. 12/1/81; Sp. Elec. 11/2/99) and this as well (from the same document but I couldn't get the link to work): § 33-02 Nomination for City Office by Petition. (A) Pursuant to Art. IV, § 6 of the City Charter, the City Clerk is hereby directed to make available to all candidates for any city office a petition form for nomination at a primary election. Said nomination form is to contain the signatures of qualified electors of the city aggregating not less than three percent nor more than five percent of the total number of valid ballots cast at the last preceding general municipal election. Said petitions shall be made available to the candidates at least ten days prior to the first date on which petitions may be presented to the City Clerk. (B) Said petitions may be presented to the City Clerk not earlier than 120 days nor later than 90 days before the date set for the primary election. (C) The City Clerk is hereby directed to certify the petition indicating that the required number of signatures of qualified electors has been obtained and said certification shall cause a candidate's name to be printed on the ballot. ('80 Code, § 10-3) (Ord. 2142, passed 8-3-83; Am. Ord. O98-78, passed 10-14-98; Am. Ord. O2002-58, passed 11-6-02) ~~ As I read it, she's qualified to run and, in fact, the City Clerks Office would be required by their own charter to include her on the ballot. She might not think in English, but that doesn't preclude her thinking at all. For all I know, she's brilliant, creative, innovative and would be great for the City. She could also be a complete hack in which case the Yuma City Charter has the means for the people to recall her if need be so I don't see the big problem with her running. It's up to the voters to decide whether or not she's qualified. She's qualified per their own charter and if she can get herself elected, she is willing to serve. I don't see how it takes much more than that in the age of technology with translation programs and I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to serve as non-biased interpreters if need be. She's a fucking American.. she's allowed to live the dream just like the rest of us. Is it okay for someone who is deaf, mute and blind to run for office? That's rhetorical. [:D]

Kaliko -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 2:17:33 PM)
I didn't research it to the extent you did, so maybe this was repealed or something. But Arizona passed Proposition 103 in 2006 which names English the official language of Arizona and calls on local governments to support its pre-eminence, according to the article. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/nov/08/20061108-115125-7910r/ Personally, I don't think English need be the official language and I think we're all putting our heads in the sand if we try to make it so. But, if this is the law in Arizona and if, in fact, local government are supposed to be proactive in supporting it, then no, she shouldn't be allowed to run. Based only on the laws on the books, not my belief in them.

Zonie63 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 2:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble I searched through their city charter and found no requirement in that document which requires any English proficiency of any level to be a requirement to be placed on the ballot. I did some further research and found prop 106 which was passed and then a back and forth went on for a few years with it until it was ultimately struck down by the Arizona Supreme Court as a violation of the 1st ammendment. It's actually a state law, unrelated to Prop. 106. http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/38/00201.htm&Title=38&DocType=ARS quote: 38-201. General qualifications A. Every officer shall be not less than eighteen years of age, a citizen of the United States and a resident of this state. B. No person is eligible to any office, employment or service in any public institution in the state, or in any of the several counties thereof, of any kind or character, whether by election, appointment or contract, unless he is a citizen of the United States, but the provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the employment of any teacher, instructor or professor authorized to teach in the United States under the teacher exchange program as provided by federal statutes or the employment of university or college faculty members. C. A person who is unable to speak, write and read the English language is not eligible to hold a state, county, city, town or precinct office in the state, whether elective or appointive, and no certificate of election or commission shall issue to a person so disqualified. D. Except as provided in subsection E, a person is not eligible for employment by or service for the state or a political subdivision of the state, including all boards and commissions of the state or political subdivision, all multimember governing bodies of departments, agencies, institutions and instrumentalities of the state or political subdivisions unless the person has registered with the selective service system if required by the federal military selective service act (62 Stat. 604; 50 United States Code App. section 453). E. A person may not be denied a right, privilege or benefit by reason of subsection D if either of the following applies: 1. The requirement for the person to so register has terminated or become inapplicable to the person. 2. The person shows by a preponderance of the evidence that the failure of the person to register with the selective service system was not a knowing and willful failure to register.

Zonie63 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 2:22:44 PM)
Here's a video from the local news station in Yuma in which they announce her appeal. She speaks some English in the video, but mostly Spanish with subtitles. http://www.kswt.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=%AD6659651

popeye1250 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 3:25:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl PHOENIX (Reuters) - A woman barred from seeking elected office in an Arizona border town by a judge who ruled she did not have a sufficient grasp of English has decided to fight the controversial ruling, and filed an appeal on Friday, her lawyer said. A Yuma County judge disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, a U.S. citizen born in Yuma, from running for a seat on the city council in the town of San Luis this week for what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve on the council. "It was clear to the court that she was stymied by many questions, did not understand many questions, failed to comprehend what was being asked, and guessed at answers," the court ruling said. The judge, in a move that sparked a debate over language in often bilingual U.S.-Mexican border communities, said Cabrera's English was not of the level needed to carry out the professional duties required of a representative of the public. http://news.yahoo.com/arizona-candidate-appeals-english-ability-court-decision-035003512.html No. What if she could only speak Celtic Irish and a few words in English?

BitaTruble -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 3:45:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/38/00201.htm&Title=38&DocType=ARS C. A person who is unable to speak, write and read the English language is not eligible to hold a state, county, city, town or precinct office in the state, whether elective or appointive, and no certificate of election or commission shall issue to a person so disqualified. Thanks for the link Zonie. I think this is a good case to challenge that law. I hope it goes down just like prop 106 did.

hlen5 -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 3:56:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble ....Thanks for the link Zonie. I think this is a good case to challenge that law. I hope it goes down just like prop 106 did. Do you mean that she should be allowed to run??

BitaTruble -> RE: Should she be allowed to run? (1/31/2012 4:08:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hlen5 Do you mean that she should be allowed to run?? I think entitled to run would better describe my viewpoint. I'm not comfortable with an American citizen being denied the opportunity to seek office in America.

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