RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence?

RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (Full Version)

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hardcybermaster -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/9/2012 4:25:02 PM)
me edit bad look under this for what I meant to say

hardcybermaster -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/9/2012 4:26:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl No more than I care that religious people are here. No more than I care that turtles are here. None of those groups affects my life. oh fucking great editing.....above was tazzy, below was me. hope that makes sense I will give you the turtles, but do you really think that religion doesn't affect your life? None of the policies in the US are affected in any way by religion? None of the US foriegn policies are in any way to do with religion? Nearly every aspect of your life has been affected by a government law or policy and to say that religion had absolutely nothing to do with those policies is a bit naive

tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/9/2012 4:50:13 PM)
quote: I will give you the turtles, but do you really think that religion doesn't affect your life? None of the policies in the US are affected in any way by religion? None of the US foriegn policies are in any way to do with religion? Nearly every aspect of your life has been affected by a government law or policy and to say that religion had absolutely nothing to do with those policies is a bit naive My post after the one you quoted may clear that up for you. quote: As long as you dont try and change the laws to suit your religious, or lack of, view point, I dont care what you believe in, how you do or do not worship keep in mind it should be legal in the way you worship or what you think about my personal beliefs. Just keep yours out of the law books as a way to supersede my own beliefs based upon your (general use) belief that you are somehow delusional in thinking yours are the only true way. (and, yes, that goes for atheists as well) Maybe reading the whole thread through might actually help you see that people arent as naive as you presume them to be. [;)]

MrBukani -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/9/2012 5:37:57 PM)
Maybe that's the problem. People just don't care any longer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC2ikng3zi4 For all the people who seem to know best[;)]

CountrySong -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 2:16:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Why turtles all the way down? The physical universe can be summed up via math, chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Most people understand God within the realm of Spirit. Spirit, by any understanding, is more akin to ~love than math, physics, chemistry, etc. I'll bet no one here would state categorically that love does not exist, yet one cannot quantify it via math, chemistry, physics, etc. Sorry Yachtie - you are in error! You can quantify LOVE via math, chemistry, and physics because it is an electrochemical reaction in our bodies. Give someone enough of the right chemicals and the right environment and they fall in love. Mess with certain parts of their brian chemically or physically and they fall out of love or even forget that those they loved even existed. We are only begining to understand the biochemical process of love but as we learn more about the brain, the biochemistry, and the electrochemistry of your bodies we are learning that emotion is not magic and can be understood by science!

MrBukani -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 2:37:50 AM)
Ah well its not rocketscience. She smells good I like her. Goddamnit I can smell her from a mile away, she must be hiding her original stink.[:D] PS you can truly smell fear on someone, just go to a hospital or an exam and test it.

CountrySong -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 2:53:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Trismagistus I cannot prove that my god exists, anyone else's doesn't, or that any of it is actually relevant to everyday life, I can however say this, most religious and nonreligious people up for debating about the whole thing in a public forum are so firm in their belief in one or the other standpoint as the full, unimpeachable absolute truth, that any attempt to sway either side one way or the other is an act of folly, Which in and of itself is ironic, because you'd think that as in any debate the goal was to sway the other party or an audience (which in this case is once again either people who would support you anyway or people who, at least in this context in regards to their opposition to you) towards your point of view which is quite irrational given the above statement. I am not able to give you any proof of the above statements, all I can give you is the Vader proposition. "search your heart, you know it to be true." I have to disagree with the part in bold - The idea of God is and has been the primary control force for the masses of people. "if there is no God, everything is permitted" - Jean Paul Sartre but often attributed to Dostoevsky We certainly can have everyone going around questioning every rule and asking "WHY?" It would take too much time and might cause problems for those who want to control and abuse others. We certainly don't want the peasants to believe that mass murder in the name of profits is wrong! “If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.” (“Si Dieu n’existait pas, il faudrait l’inventer.”) - Voltaire We need God to ease our fears of big bad nature and to control the masses. If God did not exist what right would someone have to rule over someone else? Prehaps the right of strength and the survival of the fittest but that does not sit well with us and we call it tyrany. It is much better to let God take the blame/credit for the cruelty of man to man in the fight for survival rather than take responsibility for it ourselves! After all, very few of us want to admit that we are responsible for supporting the murder of millions through our government and faiths. Just look it up in the history books. We like to think of ourselves as blaimless and to believe our form of justice will prevail! In the long run I'm not sure how much it will really matter to the universe. I don't think the universe much noticed when over 250,000 people died in a sunami (tidal wave) and I'm fairly sure that the sun will not care when it burns all life of of planet earth billions of years in the future. We are afraid - so we need God because nothing else is strong enough to stand up to reality except our imagination! We need to be controlled - so we need God because 100% freedom is unacceptable.

CountrySong -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 3:31:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I agree Zonie. Religious people are no more likely, or less likely, to be mentally ill than nonreligious people. Its just a high brow assumption on both parties to consider the other side delusional. Of course they will say they arent using the technical term. Reality is, they are slamming someone for the beliefs they do not hold themselves, while looking down their noses in a "I am superior" way at their intended target. Its an exercise in mental masturbation. I agree that religious people are no more likely, or less likely, to be mentally ill than nonreligious people. I would however make the statement that the acts of many of the icons of religion would be qualified as mental illness under todays guidelines. For example, if someone was going around casting out demons, hearing and speaking to imaginary beings, committing crimes, claiming they were God, and then murdering animlas (Jesus Christ), then they would probably be locked up for a phyciatric assesment. Another example, if someone lined up hundreds of people and cut their heads off claiming it was the word of God (Mohammad) then they would probably be locked up for a phyciatric assesment. Even my great grandmother who was a Native American Shaman (probably the wrong word since Shaman is male) would have been locked up or medicated for seeing visions, talking to ghosts and spirits, and doing other spiritual things. I have lived and worked among the mentally ill and dealt with my own mental illness! I have friends and past clients who would swear on thier lives that they see, talk to, and touch ghosts, angels, demons, and even God! Put them on thier meds or change their diet and they stop having those halucenations. Most of us can even trigger "religious" halucenations by altering our body chemistry for a time thought - pain (subspace), vision quests, fasting, extended prayer or meditation, drugs, extended sports (runners high), etc.

CountrySong -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 3:40:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl As long as you dont try and change the laws to suit your religious, or lack of, view point, I dont care what you believe in, how you do or do not worship keep in mind it should be legal in the way you worship or what you think about my personal beliefs. Just keep yours out of the law books as a way to supersede my own beliefs based upon your (general use) belief that you are somehow delusional in thinking yours are the only true way. *and, yes, that goes for atheists as well) Oh that would be nice wouldn't it!?! Unfortunately, religion is one of the primary bases of law since many rulers claimed either devine right or origin and they tended to write the laws. Now if someone could just figure out how to get religion out of law that would be great!!! I don't realistically see it happening anytime soon but one can only hope!

MrBlue76 -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 4:12:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CountrySong We need God to ease our fears of big bad nature and to control the masses. If God did not exist what right would someone have to rule over someone else? Prehaps the right of strength and the survival of the fittest but that does not sit well with us and we call it tyrany. It is much better to let God take the blame/credit for the cruelty of man to man in the fight for survival rather than take responsibility for it ourselves! (...) We are afraid - so we need God because nothing else is strong enough to stand up to reality except our imagination! We need to be controlled - so we need God because 100% freedom is unacceptable. That's why the more atheist and agnostic is the people, the more violent and brutal is the society. Oh, wait...

tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 4:22:22 AM)
Oh I agree, that country that's almost all atheistic is... ummm... Want a real mind bender? Not everyone who belongs to a religion believes in a "god".

Yachtie -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 4:43:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CountrySong quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie Why turtles all the way down? The physical universe can be summed up via math, chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Most people understand God within the realm of Spirit. Spirit, by any understanding, is more akin to ~love than math, physics, chemistry, etc. I'll bet no one here would state categorically that love does not exist, yet one cannot quantify it via math, chemistry, physics, etc. Sorry Yachtie - you are in error! You can quantify LOVE via math, chemistry, and physics because it is an electrochemical reaction in our bodies. That's like stating that the map is the same as the territory.

MrBukani -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:00:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBlue76 quote: ORIGINAL: CountrySong We need God to ease our fears of big bad nature and to control the masses. If God did not exist what right would someone have to rule over someone else? Prehaps the right of strength and the survival of the fittest but that does not sit well with us and we call it tyrany. It is much better to let God take the blame/credit for the cruelty of man to man in the fight for survival rather than take responsibility for it ourselves! (...) We are afraid - so we need God because nothing else is strong enough to stand up to reality except our imagination! We need to be controlled - so we need God because 100% freedom is unacceptable. Oh wait[:@] That's why the more atheist and agnostic is the people, the more violent and brutal is the society. Oh, wait... Tell that to the spanish inquisition, the pope, al qaida etc.[:D] And the fucks who say in god we trust and send you to war. I just fucked my post up, and misunderstood something I guess.[:(]

PeonForHer -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:18:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh I agree, that country that's almost all atheistic is... ummm... Apparently Estonia, Sweden and Denmark are the least religious countries in the world. We all know what warmongering bastards they are.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:19:50 AM)
Yeah! I've had it up to here with the Swedes!

tazzygirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:31:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh I agree, that country that's almost all atheistic is... ummm... Apparently Estonia, Sweden and Denmark are the least religious countries in the world. We all know what warmongering bastards they are. Estonia God ------------------16% Spirit or Life force---54% Neither---------------26% Sweden 23% 53% 23% Denmark 31% 49% 19% And yet.... France 34% 27% 33% Czech Republic 19% 50% 30% Netherlands 34% 37% 27% Take, for example Norway 32% 47% 17% Yet this is also true about Norway.... As of December 2010, Still, 78% of the population are members of the Norwegian state's official Lutheran Protestant church. All Norwegians are automatically registered as members at birth, so this number includes anyone except members of other communities, and those few who take action to unregister. My point went over heads, as I knew it would. Unless a society/country has been in the past more atheistic than religious, proving that religion caused more wars, as opposed to greed masked under the guise of religion, is impossible to prove.

MrBukani -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:39:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Oh I agree, that country that's almost all atheistic is... ummm... Apparently Estonia, Sweden and Denmark are the least religious countries in the world. We all know what warmongering bastards they are. If you aint dutch you aint much as we like to say. First country that had religious freedom by law. Test us and we will beat you all, on the battlefield.( know this for a fact from the big Nato exercises back in the seventies.)Just look at the K1 fighters. Smallest country in the world wich always kept its freedom and had the biggest empire if you look at it by size compared to the colonies we owned. Yes we're bastards but not warmongers, it's a defensive thing.

vincentML -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:45:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 As to the power of prayer, the religionists have an answer for that one, too: Sometimes, God's answer is "No." That answer is not quite correct. The Divine does not decide: it complies if possible. There are three main possibilities: 1. The spiritual request is not received. (For example because the strength of the emitter is insufficiently strong.) The Divine's non-causal response is none. 2. The spiritual request is received, but the request cannot be met. The Divine's non-causal response is none or a dud. 3. The spiritual request is received, and the request can be met. The Divine's non-causal response is as requested - but if taken up by the requestor, may not be to its liking. quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 In that sense, the power of prayer might have the same level of power as writing a letter to the President. Quite. Yeh, but I saw the President on TV. Can't say the same for the divine. So, two additional possibilities: 4. the divine heard the spiritual request but doesn't give a shit. 5. there aint no divine.

PolyDommesgirl -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 5:53:59 AM)
Off topic. Amusing if not ironic, one of the longest strings/threads on "Collar Me" is about religion.

GotSteel -> RE: Think there is a god and what is your evidence? (2/10/2012 6:08:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Faith and Healing So you've found a phenomenon or some phenomena. Like with the flat earth example earlier it's pretty easy how people could take some data like that especially back before we conducted studies and they were getting the data anecdotally. But should we just look at a bit of the data and jump to a conclusion or should we throw up our hands and say we can't know yet? Seems to me that there's more we can do. Can we, just like with the flat earth example, come up with models of reality based on the proposed causes of this phenomena and see which models are consistence and which ones are inconsistent with reality? If these results are evidence of God's manipulations how would we expect them to be different if they weren't? If these results are evidence of a number of documented phenomena where the mind effects the mind/the mind effects the body then how would we expect them to differ if they were being caused by the powers of a divine being?

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