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Birth control issue heating up - 2/7/2012 10:54:00 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Apparently, the Catholic Church is screaming their heads off about the decision by the Obama administration that they are NOT exempted from proving benefits for birth control to their employees under the new Health Care law.  Screw them, who doesn't end up paying for things they don't believe in?  Good for Obama for standing up to these thugs.

[/link]NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Catholic leaders upped the ante Monday, threatening to challenge the Obama administration over a provision of the new health care law that would require all employers, including religious institutions, to pay for birth control. As CBS 2’s Marcia Kramer reports, it could affect the presidential elections. Catholic leaders are furious and determined to harness the voting power of the nation’s 70 million Catholic voters to stop a provision of President Barack Obama’s new heath car reform bill [link=http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/07/27/fda-approves-new-permanent-birth-control-method/]that will force Catholic schools, hospitals and charities to buy birth control pills, abortion-producing drugs and sterilization coverage for their employees. “Never before, unprecedented in American history, for the federal government to line up against the Roman Catholic Church,” said Catholic League head Bill Donohue. Already Archbishop Timothy Dolan has spoken out against the law and priests around the country have mobilized, reading letters  from the pulpit. Donohue said Catholic officials will stop at nothing to put a stop to it. “This is going to be fought out with lawsuits, with court decisions, and, dare I say it, maybe even in the streets,” Donohue said. But pro-choice groups said they will fight the church and fight for the right of employees of Catholic institutions to have birth control and other services paid for. “The Catholic hierarchy seems to be playing a cynical game of chicken and they don’t seem to care that the health and well being of millions of American woman are what’s at stake here,” National Abortion Rights Action League President Andrea Miller said. Catholic leaders hope they will have more sway with the White House than usual because it is a presidential election year, hoping that if even a small percentage of Catholics back Obama’s opponent it could cost him the election. When asked if this issue would affect who he would vote for in November, Wilton, Conn., resident Peter Taylor said, “Potentially, yes. I think it is a very serious issue, very meaningful.” But not everyone views the situation as dire. “I would certainly vote for Obama anyway. The church has to get up to date,” Manhattan resident Sue Thomas said. Sources told Kramer that American bishops are contemplating a massive march on Washington, using people and school kids bused in from all over to protest the law.




_____________________________

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/7/2012 11:18:22 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Know what's interesting?

When I taught at a Catholic school, the prescription card that came with the insurance they supplied as part of my benefits package paid for birth control pills.

Due to that fact, I see this as a bunch of partisan posturing.


< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 2/7/2012 11:19:10 AM >

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 5:51:39 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		The link didn't work; here it is: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/06/catholic-league-poised-to-go-to-war-with-obama-over-mandatory-birth-control-payments/

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 5:57:25 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Catholic bishops are crying foul, but Catholic faithful support the president's decision.

A majority of U.S. Catholics support President Obama's decision to require religious institutions to include birth control in health insurance plans, according to two new polls.

A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute in Washington, D.C., found that support among Catholics (58 percent) is higher than that of the American public overall (55 percent).

Likewise, a Public Policy Polling survey commissioned by Planned Parenthood found that Obama's position enjoys support from 56 percent of American voters. Of the Catholics polled, 53 percent agreed with the president.


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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 6:15:35 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		WTF?  Under the separation of church and state, I had thought that the government was unable to make laws over religious organizations.  That's how the priests/etc. do not get taxed, and how a synagogue is permitted to discriminate against non-Jews when they hire rabbis (of course, that example holds for all organized religions in the US).

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 6:23:06 AM   
SternSkipper


Posts: 7546
Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Apparently, the Catholic Church is screaming their heads off about the decision by the Obama administration that they are NOT exempted from proving benefits for birth control to their employees under the new Health Care law. Screw them, who doesn't end up paying for things they don't believe in? Good for Obama for standing up to these thugs.


Ya know, as a CATHOLIC, I think this whole dog and pony shows smells a lot like the time back in the 80s through the 90s where they tried to get out of paying minimum wage. Don't kid yourself if The Roman Catholic Churh can run a "Renew Program" all these years and essentially ignore even addressing the BC issue with returning and incoming catholics, this is MUCH MORE  an economic issue than a constitutional one.Show of hands catholic ladies... When was the last time a pastor even mentioned BC to you personally ... prior to this issue emerging ... I have ZERO doubt it's hot off the pulpit right now.
   As much as the Congress shouldn't play clergy, clergy should stick to spiritual nourishment.
   And a WEALTHY organization bigger than any corporation I have ever seen evidence should have to look after the health of it's employees.


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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 6:31:09 AM   
SternSkipper


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Joined: 3/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

WTF? Under the separation of church and state, I had thought that the government was unable to make laws over religious organizations. That's how the priests/etc. do not get taxed, and how a synagogue is permitted to discriminate against non-Jews when they hire rabbis (of course, that example holds for all organized religions in the US).


This is in regard to EMPLOYMENT.
The matter of government already being able to dictate what the rules are for employees as being some deeper issue... please note they are not trying to argue that rank and file catholic citizens of the US should have the alternative to not have paid BC in their healthcare. And they aren't telling the faithful to boycott healthcare that offers it as a benefit.
   Let me ask you this. How would you feel if the argument was "The Government is prevented under the constitutional separation of church and state, so therefore, we may continue to pay $3.00 per hour to our laborers, and we are exempt from paying any health insurance benefits, or paying the employer born share of unemployment insurance". What would you think about that?



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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 6:51:07 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

WTF?  Under the separation of church and state, I had thought that the government was unable to make laws over religious organizations.  That's how the priests/etc. do not get taxed, and how a synagogue is permitted to discriminate against non-Jews when they hire rabbis (of course, that example holds for all organized religions in the US).



Care to explain how a non-jew can be a rabbi?

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 8:01:30 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Except the Church runs businesses that hire non Catholics, like hospitals. When they are running a business, they are acting as an employer, not as a religious institution.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

WTF?  Under the separation of church and state, I had thought that the government was unable to make laws over religious organizations.  That's how the priests/etc. do not get taxed, and how a synagogue is permitted to discriminate against non-Jews when they hire rabbis (of course, that example holds for all organized religions in the US).


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 8:21:49 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		The rightist loser cons are trying to twist the discrimination committed by the Vatican on our citizens into religious persecution of Catholics.


And just the way they do it is disgusting,claiming the president is "attacking the church".


Pretty loaded and inflammatory,especially with the history of cons calling the president a secret-Muslim/terrorist/nazi/etc.


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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 8:59:35 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		It's hilarious. What with the Pope being an ACTUAL Nazi and everything...

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 9:01:55 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And I'd just like to reiterate. Any nitwit so stupid to think that THEIR OPINION matters with respect to anyone's healthcare not their own can pre-emptively go fuck themselves.

There's exactly two people whose opinion matters. The patient. And her doctor. Period. End of story.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 9:04:22 AM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
Joined: 10/8/2010
Status: offline 		This is a inside media generated non-issue. If the Republicans really want to fight this battle about access to contraception in 2012, let them. The simple fact is the church already provides this coverage at some instututions (Georgetown) and no great dogma is compromised. No one is forcing the Church to use birth control (which by the way is also a medicine). The church collects payroll taxes under law that support all sorts of things they are against (war, death penalty) and do not make a holy stink about it. This is a few conservative Catholic bishops making noise. Nothing more.

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 9:30:32 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Nothing more?

http://www.lifenews.com/2004/10/19/nat-885/

What those "few" say carry a lot of weight.

Conflict over whether people who in any way support legalized abortion should be allowed to receive communion in Catholic churches continues. In South Carolina, a man with a "John Kerry for President" button was denied communion by a eucharistic minister.
The National Catholic Reporter explains:

Charleston Bishop Robert J. Baker had declared that Catholics in public life, especially elected ones, who didn’t support church teaching on the sanctity of human life “are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.” That came Aug. 4 in a joint letter from Baker, Archbishop John F. Donoghue of Atlanta, Ga., and Bishop Peter J. Jugis of Charlotte, N.C.
But in a pastoral addendum Baker published in his own see, he clarified his position: “No one else may make a decision regarding whether or not a person should be admitted to holy Communion. That determination is reserved to me personally.” Garvey said that the parish pastor quickly squelched the self-appointed enforcer. When he discovered the incident he called in all eucharistic ministers and told them this action was beyond their purview.

Not only did the eucharistic minister go beyond what was permitted, he also reached the conclusion that anyone who supports John Kerry for president also doesn't "support church teaching on the sanctity of life." This points to a serious problem within the Catholic church in America if people in positions of responsibility and authority are making such illogical and ill-founded connections.


http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/09/23/south-carolina-kerry-supporter-denied-communion.htm

The Telegraph reports:

quote:

[I]t states that pro-abortion Catholic politicians should be warned by priests that they are not eligible for Communion. If the politician then "shows an obstinate persistence in grave sin", writes Cardinal Ratzinger, he or she should be turned away at the altar rail. ... The tone and content of Cardinal Ratzinger's memo, which was leaked to an Italian magazine last week, leave little room for misunderstanding. Some passages appear to have been drafted specifically with Sen Kerry in mind.
"Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia," writes the Cardinal, "when a person's formal co-operation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his pastor should meet with him, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end the objective situation of sin, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist."
According to some, the pope is rooting for George W. Bush to win the election fight against John Kerry:

"I have been in Rome with the Pope and the president," said Deal Hudson, one of the most prominent Catholic laymen in the US and the editor of the religious Crisis magazine. "I also represented the president in the 25th anniversary celebrations of John-Paul's papacy. The Pope and his inner circle prefer pro-life Bush to pro-choice Kerry."
People were outraged when it was revealed that Bush specifically asked the pope for his help in getting the American bishops’ support for the Republican cause... but perhaps the pope has responded positively through the office of Ratzinger?

It remains to be seen how the American public, especially American Catholics, react to the Vatican’s attempts to manipulate the American elections.


http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/07/12/secret-anti-kerry-orders-from-vatican.htm

Its more than "nothing more".

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 11:46:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Boehner is now accusing Obama of making attacks on religion and vowing that Congress will overturn what Obama wont.

http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-congress-overturn-birth-control-policy-171425885.html

Does Boehner now speak for the House and the Senate? As well as all members?

Boehner said that if the administration fails to reverse the policy, then Congress will act. He said that in the coming days, the House Energy and Commerce Committee will move ahead on legislation.

Apparently he thinks so.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 11:53:47 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sheesh, it just keeps getting better and better under President Pantload doesn't it?
WTH is this useless government doing even getting involved in "birth control" or "abortion?"
Those are good examples of what I *don't* want my govt. doing!
They can't, won',t or both put troops on that Mexican border where they're desperately needed but they're wasting my fucking time on this bullshit???

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 12:00:03 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		This is an exciting day, popeye!  We agree on something.  Why DOES the government think it is OK to tell me whether I can or cannot have an abortion.  That should be my personal choice, in conjunction with my Doctor, and my insurance company should pay for it like any other medical procedure.  For that matter, if my insurance company is going to pay for viagra (they do) then birth control pills should be no problem either, right?
Of course, it isn't Obama that is making these things an issue, now is it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sheesh, it just keeps getting better and better under President Pantload doesn't it?
WTH is this useless government doing even getting involved in "birth control" or "abortion?"
Those are good examples of what I *don't* want my govt. doing!
They can't, won',t or both put troops on that Mexican border where they're desperately needed but they're wasting my fucking time on this bullshit???


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 12:01:29 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, what I find as the crux of the issue here, is that ecclesiologists that aided, abetted, and gave comfort and aid to Nazis, slaughtered innocent people worldwide, promulgated torture in the inquistion, robbed from rich and poor alike, are not being run out in their own auto-de-fey as pedophiles and heavenly protectors of pedophiles that they are, hauled out into the streets to have the blood eagle drawn on them.

I guess they can dish it out, but they can't take it, to say the very least.  Fuckin' pussies.

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 12:04:30 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		It`s healthcare insurance coverage discrimination, pops.

But why would you want some Americans to be treated as 2nd class citizens,...... with different rules?


Or do you?


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/8/2012 12:14:56 PM >

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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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RE: Birth control issue heating up - 2/8/2012 1:07:36 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I heard on NPR that insurance companies often offer employers contraceptive coverage FREE OF CHARGE because it is cheaper than paying for a pregnancy.

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