fucktoyprincess
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ishtarr
quote:
ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
The internal enslavement techniques only work and sustain the conditioning when there are certain elements present at all times. One of those is trust, as pointed out previously. It does not create a "stepford slave".
I used to be in a relationship where a "total" internal enslavement conditions, with an absolute inability to leave was the ultimate goal.
I can't say for sure if that state was ever achieved or not, but if it wasn't achieved totally, then at least something approximating total enslavement was achieved. For a long time in the relationship, I had the inability to walk over the threshold and leave -as Orion describes in his girl- despite the fact that I desperately wanted to do so.
The reason the trust was eroded away is because certain fundamental guarantees is was made prior to me even considering moving across the Atlantic to be with this man where not upheld from the start. Financial, emotional, physical guarantees towards my own wellbeing where forsaken somewhere along the way, in a way that if no internal enslavement methods had been in place, I would have walked out on him at the first sign of trouble.
Instead, I "allowed" it to get bad enough that when it reached a point where I severely damaging my ankle in his service, and he didn't believe the pain was as bad as I said it was nor considered a doctors visit necessary, I foolishly just worked through the pain without rest or sparing the ankle, instead of insisting on seeing a doctor. It wasn't until after I was out the relationship, half a year later, that I saw a doctor and found out that I had actually broken a bone in my foot.
I also ignored the fact that I was not taken care of financially in the way I had been promised prior to moving, and instead ended up dipping deeper and deeper in my own very limited savings to take care of day to day expenses like clothing and hygiene products, to the point of not having enough left to financially support myself in any constructive way, for any length of time, at the point when the relationship did finally break up.
To this day, I still don't believe I had the ability to cross that threshold on my own.
What I did slowly regain was the capacity to vocalize my objection and desire to leave, and even act on this by being rebellious and disobedient. We finally did end up having a frank conversation in which I told his I insisted on leaving... immediately... which he forbad and instead ordered me to stay for another few months, at which time he promised to let me go. I agreed, because I didn't really have another choice.
He didn't have a plan on what to do with me in case things went wrong, like Orion has brought up is so terrible important. So when I started to rebel, because I didn't feel fundamentally safe in the relationship anymore, he didn't have a method of handling it in a way that would be good for both of us. Instead, things spun further and further out of control, until it reached the point where his wife kicked me out of the house one day when he was gone, with me not having so much as a place to spend the night at that point.
After that, he simple refused any kind of contact with me whatsoever, leaving me to deal with things on my own instead.
I came very close to killing myself, because I still couldn't imagine myself living without him, despite the fact that I couldn't imagine myself living with him either.
I barely pulled myself through at the skin of my teeth, but now, two years later, I am still not free of him at all. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about him, and that the pain involved with our relationship doesn't stab through my heart as if it was fresh. The emotional, sexual and psychological issues I personally deal with as an aftermath of our relationship inhibit me on a daily basis, and I have only very recently been able to begin to work through some of those things.
So yes. These types of relationships can be incredible dangerous. And they can go terrible wrong. And unless you have a near perfect man, the scars they can give you may stay with you for the rest of your life.
And yet, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't long for what I had with him.
There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish that I still had the capacity to trust enough to be able to have such a thing with a different man, more suited for me.
There isn't a day that goes by in which I'm not grateful for the things I've learned from him, and the strength and self-awareness he's given me.
If I would have known all that I know now at the beginning of my getting to know him, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do it all again. Because despite the pain and suffering it's caused me, he still is the best thing that could have ever happened to me at that point in my life, and the things I learned from him I couldn't have learned any other way.
It may not work for everybody, but for some people a CNC relationship, including all the pain and danger it brings with it, really is the only way.
Thank you for sharing this personal story. I think this really exemplifies the "internal enslavement" that prior posters have been discussing. I have a lot of thoughts on this, and again, everyone bear with me.
Any relationship, even a vanilla one, can end up in an abusive situation. And anyone who has studied anything about abusive situations knows that it is almost always very difficult for the victim in a situation like that to leave. Just read any studies that have been done on domestic violence. It does not take a CNC BDSM relationship that is internal enslavement in objective to create this situation. People in vanilla relationships who are abused also experience the inability to leave. So I do just want to say that up front. There is a victim's mindset that really affects people's ability to leave.
Based on Ishtarr's experiences, I have the following specific comments. First, things that were promised to her were never fulfilled. Again, to the extent that things are discussed up front and agreed to, it seems clear to me that a Dominant cannot unilaterally change what was promised and still consider the original consent, consent. Again, I am not sure if things changed such that the Dominant was no longer able to fulfill his promises, or, perhaps, he never intended on fulfilling the promises to begin with. It is a sad reality of life, but people do lie.
Second, not providing appropriate medical care when necessary is abusive, period. I don't think anyone can consent out of appropriate medical care.
Three, there should be a discussion up front about what to do if things go badly. Just as in the vanilla world, something like a pre-nuptial handles things like financial issues after the dissolution of a marriage, in a similar way, even though it may not deal with financial matters, there ought to be a break-up scenario in place. But, of course, if you are dealing with a Dominant who does not keep his word, we are back to my comment about promises being kept.
Four, I understand the longing that you have for "what" you had with this person. But I do not believe that you would have been happy staying with him, and, in fact, that is the conclusion that you, yourself came to, eventually. I, too, have relationships from my past, even vanilla ones, that I look upon with fondness as nostalgia sets in. But there were reasons those relationships did not work, and one has to accept a failed relationship as just that - one that was not meant to work. When you say you wouldn't hesitate to do it all again, you say that from the perspective of someone who finally had the strength to leave. What if you had committed suicide, or been denied medical treatment that resulted in severe injury or death? Would you be looking down from heaven still saying you would do it all again? I highly doubt it. I am not trying to be harsh by that statement - I am saying that you have that nostalgic perspective because you survived the relationship and were strengthened, in part, by having to find the strength to leave. Part of what you learned was your own inner strength. But that actually required leaving.
Five, it saddens me greatly (and it should sadden the BDSM community) that someone who was interested in this type of dynamic was pushed to the brink by this relationship such that they almost committed suicide and are still working through the emotional, sexual and psychological issues from that relationship - in other words, this person was not in a position to be of service to another in a true way until those issues were resolved. Nothing upsets me more than Dominants who treat submissives as "throw-aways" - i.e., not my issue if they are never able to serve again. We are each entitled to our lives and our journeys. Paths cross at different times. But someone who leaves someone "injured" in some way, has absolutely done a wrong. BDSM does not absolve this. This brings me to my last point.
Six, this man you describe (and his wife), and I understand that you loved him, but to me, from this description he (and she) sounds like nothing but self-serving jerks. He made promises he didn't keep. He made you use your own finances, even though he had promised you would be looked after. He refused you medical care. He did not have an exit strategy thought through. And then when his wife kicked you out he obviously could not stand up to her and provide you with protection. He (and his wife) are exactly the type of people who I worry about. Obviously capable of enticing someone into an arrangement that they do not then follow through properly on. I know these type of people exist. I have corresponded and interacted with some of them. And my original posts on this thread were exactly referencing this type of danger. There are people out there looking for CNC who do not understand the responsibilities involved, and who are actually just trying to get something for very little in return, and then ultimately getting away with abuse. This couple handled things so poorly and I do not feel they are deserving of any respect from the BDSM community at large. And, if I had to guess, they are not connected to the BDSM community in any meaningful way. In other words when people talk about responsibility, I think those who take a responsible approach are often those who are connected to the community in some way - they read a lot, talk to others, are sometimes trained in technique and play by other Dominants, etc., where the concepts of responsibility and trust are instilled. But many in the BDSM world are not part of the community, and are just making up things as they go along. And if they are not thoughtful people, they can be dangerous to others (as this couple were). I am a big believer in educating submissives to be, not just cautious, but specifically educating them on the questions they need to be asking up front. I do not believe any of this is intuitive to anyone.
Ishtarr, it has only been two years since these incidents in your life. This type of situation takes a long time to heal from. So give yourself the time to heal. In the meantime I hope you are seeking whatever professional help you can to assist you in dealing with your issues. You have to do everything within your control to heal. You will emerge from this experience much stronger. And if you ever consider CNC again, I think you will have a better sense of what to look for, what pace to take, what questions to ask, etc. While it is possible that you may never trust anyone in the same way again, I don't think it is a bad thing in life to start from the perspective of mistrust and allow the other person to earn/gain your trust. What you want is the feeling that you had with this person/couple. And that is something I can promise you, you will be capable of feeling again. That feeling, however, is not actually connected to him uniquely. I don't know if what I am saying makes sense to you, but I hope it does.
Dominants speak a lot about submissives giving their trust. I encourage all Dominants, regardless of what type of play or relationship you seek, to also think about the concept of earning trust. Become the person who can be trusted. And encourage other Dominants to be the same. Again, under this big BDSM umbrella, I really think the touch points are all the same, regardless of type of play and regardless of type of responsibility. The touchstones of safe, sane and consensual are good touchstones. And the other important concept is trust. But trust is always a two-way street. And to me these fundamentals exist in every aspect of BDSM, every type of play, every type of relationship. It is simply all nuance. I think we can be respectful of different approaches. But I think everyone is in agreement that when one of the touchstones is not adequately maintained - bad things start to happen. Maintaing safe, sane, consensual trust is critical in my mind. There is upfront what we consent to - in any type of play, in any type of relationship - but the touchstones absolutely have to be maintained throughout. And this requires thought on both the Dominants and the submissives part, throughout the relationship, regardless of what type of arrangement they are contemplating.
< Message edited by fucktoyprincess -- 2/11/2012 7:26:46 AM >
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