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Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 11:16:21 AM   
TheHeretic


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After much discussion, many meetings involving much travel, and careful consideration of public comment, HUD has released the final rule on the Definition of Homeless, and published it the Federal Register. For people in the business of social work, it's a big deal. This is what they have come up with.

The final rule on the Definition of Homeless establishes four categories under which an individual or family may qualify as homeless. The categories are:

1. Literally homeless – An individual or family who lacks a fixed, regular and adequate nighttime residence, meaning the individual or family has a primary nighttime residence that is a public or private place not meant for human habitation or is living in a publicly or privately operated shelter designed to provide temporary living arrangements. This category also includes individuals who are exiting an institution where he or she resided for 90 days or less who resided in an emergency shelter or place not meant for human habitation immediately prior to entry into the institution.

2. Imminent Risk of Homelessness – an individual or family who will imminently lose (within 14 days) their primary nighttime residence provided that no subsequent residence has been identified and the individual or family lacks the resources or support networks needed to obtain other permanent housing.

3. Homeless under other Federal Statutes – unaccompanied youth (under 25) or families with children and youth who do not otherwise qualify as homeless under this definition and are defined as homeless under another federal statute, have not had permanent housing during the past 60 days, have experience persistent instability, and can be expected to continue in such status for an extended period of time.

4. Fleeing/Attempting to Flee DV – any individual or family who is fleeing, or attempting to flee, domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, or stalking.



I say, on a pretty regular basis, that it is right and proper for a country like the USA to have a safety net, but we must avoid allowing it to become a hammock. We do these things with the best of intentions, but rarely are the dangers of unintended consequences honestly addressed.

One of those unintended consequences is plain to see on the simple existence of such a study and finding; we have wrought a new federal bureaucracy that exists to funnel taxpayer money to the created industry that applies for it, and doles it out.

Another danger that springs from our good intentions is that we wind up promoting dependency, over self-reliance and personal accomplishment (both good for the self-esteem we used to hear so much about). What we have here are broad new lines of who is entitled to be done for, rather than doing for themselves.

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny? Threads go where they go, however, so outside of dragging it into the mud of personal attacks and character slurs, the best ways to deal with the specific problem of homelessness certainly seems like a fine side discussion to me.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 11:28:10 AM   
Owner59


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It`s both.

You`re welcome in advance.

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 11:29:58 AM   
popeye1250


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Let me guess, they think ketchup is a vegetable too, right?
I wonder how long it took those pencil sharpeners to come up with this report/study?
As I've always said, there are things that the govt. is doing that they shouldn't be doing and things that they're not doing that they should be.

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 11:42:58 AM   
Owner59


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No ,that`s a "gov. redefinition" theme......


This is a heavy hand of gubment/cry-baby theme.


Gotta get your righty-rant-dogmas straight there ,sailor.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2012 11:44:17 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:04:34 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

Are we a Christian nation only when it is convenient?

< Message edited by vincentML -- 2/11/2012 12:06:48 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:20:13 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

Are we a Christian nation only when it is convenient?

quote:

Oh but the bible says that if government is doing it or involved.......it`s devil worship.

Well,no the bible doesn`t say that ...............but that`s a GOP platform and an essential con-dogma.

After reading the definitions,....they seem pretty reasonable.There may be more sub groups but then it`ll start looking like the Grammy Awards.That should be the thread theme,~are the definitions accurate~ rather than coded anti-government messages like "nanny state".


Oh but the bible says that if government is doing it or involved.......it`s devil worship.

Well,no the bible doesn`t say that ...............but that`s a GOP platform and an essential con-dogma.Especially the OP.It`s the basis from which all thoughts then flow.

After reading the definitions,....they seem pretty reasonable.There may be more sub groups but then it`ll start looking like the Grammy Awards.


That should be the thread theme,~are the definitions accurate~ rather than coded anti-government messages like "nanny state".

Just because it`s very difficult if not impossible to cover every situation that happens in a country as diverse as ours and with as many varied economic factors and predicaments as we face in America,should THAT, be an issue?



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2012 12:30:35 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:23:08 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?


I think that the role of the government is military, civic amenities, education, and justice.

I think that our current government is a costly and burdensome nanny-state.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:27:20 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

Are we a Christian nation only when it is convenient?


For many that answer is yes.. sadly.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:29:51 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

That should be the thread theme,~are the definitions accurate~ rather than coded anti-government messages like "nanny state".


Yeh, I noticed the "nanny state" code. Some folks just can't get through the day without bashing the gummit as the source of all their ills.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:41:09 PM   
Owner59


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

That should be the thread theme,~are the definitions accurate~ rather than coded anti-government messages like "nanny state".


Yeh, I noticed the "nanny state" code. Some folks just can't get through the day without bashing the gummit as the source of all their ills.

The source of the agnst really is redefinition from the old bush-homeless definition.......


Homelessness........ (defined the old(repubublican)way).......

What homeless?

Oh...you mean those bums over there............. taking up space .................and breathing good our air?

They don`t exist.

See?

No homeless problem.

FYI,....one of the fastest growing demographics of the homeless are the eldely.Those fuck`n scum bag bums,get`n old on us,how dare they!!!!

I guess they`re going to expect us youngsters to take care of them and waste good money feeding them and keeping them from freezing.

What do they think,we`re a Christian nation or something?

Jesus!!



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/11/2012 12:44:21 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:42:16 PM   
tazzygirl


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If the people in our country acted like adults, then we wouldnt need the appearance of a nanny state. Someone mentioned justice as part of the government's. In my opinion, the role of government is to protect the people. To be honest, if we protected each other, we wouldnt need a government to do that for us.

The question now is... why do we not protect each other?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:45:25 PM   
Yachtie


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Wow, #1 could apply to a hotel.

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“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 12:52:39 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

we wind up promoting dependency, over self-reliance and personal accomplishment (both good for the self-esteem we used to hear so much about). What we have here are broad new lines of who is entitled to be done for, rather than doing for themselves.


A talk show attitude. Love to see the stats on this.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 1:06:11 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Wow, #1 could apply to a hotel.



#1 does apply to a hotel.

Schooling must be provided for youth who are defined as homeless. If they are living in a hotel, they are homeless.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 2:11:28 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?


"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

Are we a Christian nation only when it is convenient?



So the government is supposed to be Jesus, then? Or tasked with carrying out his guidance?

As is often pointed out, we are not a Christian country, we are a nation of religious liberty. We are, to go with the source you are using, to render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's, and render unto God that which is God's. Nothing there about Caesar being God's account manager.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 2:16:59 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Love to see the stats on this.



What stats do you mean, Muse? How shall we quantify a creeping malaise to your satisfaction?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 3:02:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Yeh, I noticed the "nanny state" code.



"Nanny state," isn't some sort of "code," Vincent. It's a colorful and evocative description of a relationship that can exist between the people and the government. It resonates all on its own in the ears of those who value their independence and individual liberties.

What IS code though, is coming along and labeling an idea, or a reasonable position that frightens you, "code," and then snickering because you're in on the snide little slur. As the sweet southern lady would say, how nice."



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 3:06:11 PM   
tazzygirl


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The US is built on christian values....


Which GOP candidate has not uttered those sentiments?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 3:07:03 PM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Wow, #1 could apply to a hotel.



#1 does apply to a hotel.

Schooling must be provided for youth who are defined as homeless. If they are living in a hotel, they are homeless.


LOL... The Ritz-Carlton in NYC?

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Kaliko)
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RE: Government in action: "Homeless" defined - 2/11/2012 3:19:57 PM   
Kaliko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie

Wow, #1 could apply to a hotel.



#1 does apply to a hotel.

Schooling must be provided for youth who are defined as homeless. If they are living in a hotel, they are homeless.


LOL... The Ritz-Carlton in NYC?


Technically, I guess so, yes - as weird as that sounds. The definition is not that one is lacking a shelter at night, but that one is lacking a consistent primary residence. If a family loses their home to foreclosure, say, and their rich aunt puts them up in the Ritz Carlton until they find a new home - yes, they are technically homeless.

I don't know what this means as far as financial assistance or anything. I only know what this means as far as which district is responsible for providing education to that homeless child - whether it's the district he/she is temporarily staying in, or the district he/she was living in when the homelessness occurred.

(in reply to Yachtie)
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