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ORIGINAL: Owner59

pointless and empty.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I think that the role of the government is military, civic amenities, education, and justice.

I think that our current government is a costly and burdensome nanny-state.

That's an interesting way to handle the quote boxes, Iamsemisweet. While I may agree with some of what Aylee said in principle, those are not my words, despite your edit to place them in stereo.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: vincentML


From your OP. I get the impression that you're okay with some assistance but not too much assistance. And then you ask if the government is about to become a burdensome nanny. Clearly, to me and to others your use of the word "nanny" reveals an anti-government bias in your presentation. Do I have those wrong? How so?

Now this is interesting, Vincent. I raise a question of the relationship of the people to the government, you see that as an anti-government bias. Government has many legitimate functions, and rightly requires the power to carry those out. Sometimes, that might even require a level of nanny state intrusion, as in the need to include drug testing in the welfare-to-work programs.It's a balancing act, and a question of where we draw lines, not whether lines should exist at all.

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ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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The difference is that I see this as an individual mandate, not really a collective one. Jesus didn't tell people to petition Rome to increase their taxes so that the government could care for the poor. That is the role of the Church (since that is who He was talking to...His flock). He told us, individually, to love the poor and serve the needy. A government can't love anyone. It is wholly incapable of doing so. As a Christian, the mandate is to be Christ to the needy...to be His hands in caring for the poor. The government already has a God complex, let's not make it worse

Jesus did not live in a nation of 300 million people. Is there any place where individual charity has been successful in giving aid to the poor and needy on so large a scale?

I believe in the principle of subsidiarity, where the closer you are to the problem, the better equipped you more likely are to really solve it. Why does it have to be on a large scale? Why not work within your own community first? You start with the family and broaden out from there to the neighborhood, then the city, then the county, then the state. Rarely do you EVER really need to go as far as the feds, particularly when more often than not they waste money and fuck things up because they are so far removed from the actual problems.

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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I don't think he's a Christian, Boi. Rather, I think he's leaping to an assumption that I am (because there is a religious right, all the right must be religious), and trying to use "my" religion to show some sort of hypocrisy that only exists in his head.

My posting of Jesus's remarks were not meant to be taken as an ad hominum attack against you. You are way to sensitive. I was merely trying to point out that there is a long established philosophy in the Western world that prompts us to care for the less fortunate.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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I don't think he's a Christian, Boi. Rather, I think he's leaping to an assumption that I am (because there is a religious right, all the right must be religious), and trying to use "my" religion to show some sort of hypocrisy that only exists in his head.

My posting of Jesus's remarks were not meant to be taken as an ad hominum attack against you. You are way to sensitive. I was merely trying to point out that there is a long established philosophy in the Western world that prompts us to care for the less fortunate.

You still didn't answer my question, although Heritic said you were not a christian and you didn't dispute it. So now I have to wonder. Do you usually use the bible to make your points?

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Do I usually use the bible to make my points? Sometimes I do and sometimes not. Are the words therein for use by christians only?

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Another example of demeaning the dignity of the needy and helpless while pandering to Right Wing mythology. Gov Scott of Florida instituted drug testing of assistance recipients claiming that people on welfare have a higher rate of drug use than the general population. Subsequent results have shown that welfare recipients in Florida tested positive at a rate of 2% while a study showed that 8.13 % of Floridians age 12 and up use illegal drugs.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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Do I usually use the bible to make my points? Sometimes I do and sometimes not. Are the words therein for use by christians only?

Of course not. I just found it odd that someone who didn't believe in a book would pull it out to prove their point.

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Drug testing, at least at the pre-employment level, is the norm in the American workplace. If welfare is supposed to be about moving people from poverty into employment, failing to test those classified as eligible to work is a gaping hole in the job-training.

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"However well-meant," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote for the court, "the candidate drug test Georgia has devised diminishes personal privacy for a symbol's sake." The court ruled that the unique Georgia law -- covering the governor, lieutenant governor, other top officials, judges and legislators -- was not enacted in response to any reported illegal drug use among politicians. Ginsburg said "nothing in the record hints that the hazards respondents [state of Georgia] broadly describe are real and not simply hypothetical for Georgia's polity." Ginsburg added that Georgia's program is not even effectively designed to identify candidates who use illegal drugs, saying, "the test date is picked by the candidate, so all but the uncontrollably addicted could escape detection."

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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It's the big question for this thread. Is it the role of government to be the dedicated servant of the people, or the costly and burdensome nanny?

"For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'

And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'"

(Matthew 25.35-40 ESV)

Are we a Christian nation only when it is convenient?

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Vincent, that's all well and good but we can't have generation after generation demanding that we.... "feed them."
"The Lord helps them who help themselves."
And I welcome "strangers" but not illegal aliens who sneak into our country and break our laws. They are not "strangers," we know who they are and why they sneak into our country.
Now, one can't be using the bible to make an argument everytime they don't get their way.
Can you imagine atheist lefties trying to do that? lol "Woah, woah,....it says right in the fuckin' bible that you guys have to keep feeding us and like,.....let us stay on welfare,...right Cletus?"
Everytime someone quotes the bible to make a point another can quote the bible to negate their point.
Ever watch that guy who's always quoting the bible and his wife with the REALLY bad hair, "Rexella?"
"It says so in Mathew 52, Rocco 70 and Nunzio 16!"
I've worked in a homeless shelter and soup kitchen before. (volunteer.)
Many homeless people just will not give up the drugs and booze. But,....they'll use Christianity when it's convenient for them.
You have to want to help yourself to get off the booze and drugs.
Otherwise we're just enabling them . Give them a place to stay and meals so that they can continue to go out and rob and steal to get money for drugs and booze.
Now, I wonder what the big guy would say about people taking advantage of the charity of others?