RE: Restaurants and dieting (Full Version)

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Hippiekinkster -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/13/2012 5:18:12 PM)

If it has a label on it, it's not food. But goddammit, I like my Blue Bell.




outlier -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/13/2012 5:25:15 PM)

Once again you are ignoring the parts of my posts you cannot deal with.
This time it is the sugar differences.  but instead you speak of a "guru"
when I keep supplying different researchers who all independently have
come to the same conclusions.  But you are the ultimate authority.

I repeat I don't have a single guru despite your sad attempts to say I do.
I keep finding a lot of respectable peer reviewed research that is
largely in agreement. 

Here are the posts of a medical librarian; someone who's profession
is to do medical research.  And once again she is someone who gives
her sources.  The actual peer reviewed studies and the results.

http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/2012/01/reversing-diabetes.html

http://www.happyhealthylonglife.com/happy_healthy_long_life/type-2-diabetes/

After you read those AND you chase down and read the studies.  Then we
can have an informed discussion where we both search for the truth.  You can
start by using the search feature on her page.  She has done a lot of the work
you disdain to do because you already know.




kalikshama -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/13/2012 8:10:56 PM)

quote:

Dr T. Colin Campbell in his book The China Study essentially agrees with Dr. Esselstyn.


Debunking Junk Science: Goodbye China Study

Denise Minger, a raw food enthusiast and freelance writer from Portland, Oregon has done an incredible job of really digging through The China Study and tearing it apart piece by piece. The China Study is Campbell’s misguided attempt at defending veganism on health grounds. It is an often-cited ‘proof’ of why eating animal products is unhealthy and has become something of a bible for vegans and vegetarians who want support for their diet on health/science grounds. The problem is, the conclusions reached by the study and the way the data was selected and used by Campbell are just flat out wrong in nearly every way.

Don’t get me wrong- I definitely respect the right of people to choose not to eat animal products on moral grounds or simply because they find it unappetizing. But when the attempt is made to confirm this personal bias by finding scientific data to support their case, they run into a lot of trouble. Especially when they do as poor a job as Campbell did with his opus.

So if this kind of thing interests you and you really want to see someone demonstrate how even a respected scientist can stack the deck in his favor and draw a dishonest conclusion, do yourself a favor and read Minger’s thorough takedown. If you are a vegan or vegetarian and are interested in the faults of Campbell’s ‘research’, I highly recommend reading Minger’s piece as well.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/




outlier -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/13/2012 9:09:58 PM)

kalikshama,

Since you have read this and I presume read through Denise's criticism
Campbell's reply and her subsequent reply I am surprised to find that
you omitted this response:  A Cancer Epidemiologist refutes Denise Mingers
China Study Claims due to incorrect data analysis
.

"Your analysis is completely OVER-SIMPLIFIED. Every good epidemiologist/statistician
will  tell you that a correlation does NOT equal an association. By running a series of
correlations, you’ve merely pointed out linear, non-directional, and unadjusted
relationships between two factors.

I suggest you pick up a basic biostatistics book, download a free copy of “R”
(an open-source statistical software program), and learn how to analyze data
properly.   I’m a PhD cancer epidemiologist, and would be happy to help you do
this properly. While I’m impressed by your crude, and – at best – preliminary
analyses, it is quite irresponsible of you to draw conclusions based on these
results alone. At the very least, you need to model the data using regression
analyses so that you can account for multiple factors at one time."


You may have omitted it because shortly after it was posted to Denise's blog it was
taken down.  So much for her commitment to "peer review".  Although that is too
generous since she is quite obviously not a peer of either Dr Campbell or the epidemiologist. 




tazzygirl -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 4:43:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Dr T. Colin Campbell in his book The China Study essentially agrees with Dr. Esselstyn.


Debunking Junk Science: Goodbye China Study

Denise Minger, a raw food enthusiast and freelance writer from Portland, Oregon has done an incredible job of really digging through The China Study and tearing it apart piece by piece. The China Study is Campbell’s misguided attempt at defending veganism on health grounds. It is an often-cited ‘proof’ of why eating animal products is unhealthy and has become something of a bible for vegans and vegetarians who want support for their diet on health/science grounds. The problem is, the conclusions reached by the study and the way the data was selected and used by Campbell are just flat out wrong in nearly every way.

Don’t get me wrong- I definitely respect the right of people to choose not to eat animal products on moral grounds or simply because they find it unappetizing. But when the attempt is made to confirm this personal bias by finding scientific data to support their case, they run into a lot of trouble. Especially when they do as poor a job as Campbell did with his opus.

So if this kind of thing interests you and you really want to see someone demonstrate how even a respected scientist can stack the deck in his favor and draw a dishonest conclusion, do yourself a favor and read Minger’s thorough takedown. If you are a vegan or vegetarian and are interested in the faults of Campbell’s ‘research’, I highly recommend reading Minger’s piece as well.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/



http://www.amazon.com/Colin-Campbell-Doesnt-China-Study/forum/Fx1YJPR95OHW08P/Tx3QD9DFF9KLKFN/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&s=books&asin=1932100660&store=books




kalikshama -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 5:05:42 AM)

quote:

You may have omitted it because shortly after it was posted to Denise's blog it was taken down. 


[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]




xxblushesxx -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 5:34:18 AM)

Why is everyone fighting over this stuff?
Have a Valentine's day cookie or some good chocolate and forget about it. : )




tazzygirl -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 8:37:35 AM)

Blushes...

Have a Valentine's day cookie or some good chocolate and forget about it. [;)]

Dont worry about people fighting.





OttersSwim -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 8:39:30 AM)

I have gone into restaurants before and explained my situation to them and asked for a grilled chicken breast, some steamed veggies, and plain rice and had great success!

I would think that most would be open to preparing what your friends wanted as well.  If you were in doubt, you could call ahead and ask.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 8:53:50 AM)

For my part, I actually prefer a diet that's higher in protein. I have less cravings and am more satisfied. But, my trainer insists that I eat 60% carbs on this program. He believes that a higher carb diet improves performance. And what is the point of having a "diet Dom" if you don't listen to them?




OsideGirl -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 8:55:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


Have a Valentine's day cookie or some good chocolate and forget about it. : )


I would but I don't do flour or sugar. Instead we're going to do bacon wrapped filet mignon with garlic butter and broccoli. With Ile de France Brie as an appetizer. Oh and he brought home a bottle of wine and peeled off the price sticker...telling me the price was on a need to know basis and I didn't need to know.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 9:30:56 AM)

Awesome! I doubt we'll be doing any celebrating for a while, but I'm happy you are!




tazzygirl -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 12:14:37 PM)

blushes makes some damn good treats! [:D] The man said so.. and the cats agreed!!!




xxblushesxx -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 12:51:26 PM)

Awww...I'm glad they were enjoyed! (I kinda feel guilty making cheesecakes and mousses and the stuff HM loves when reading these threads though)




Edwynn -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 1:23:07 PM)



~FR~

A theme that I have seen more than a few times is that some vegetarians I've known who go that route strictly for 'humanitarian' reasons have pretty lousy diets, as they still don't give anymore thought to what they eat than they did when meat was included. The usual suspects of processed foods, sometimes high sugar, lots of animal fat (cheese/butter/milk etc.), large pasta/cheese dishes, lots of potatoes and maybe one or two green vegetables, etc.

The myriad needs of the body can indeed lead to myriad approaches to diet and the studies behind investigation into all that. While on that subject, someone writing a book about it does not a priori disqualify them because they are selling a book. In many cases it might indeed be purely for that purpose but there are more than a few decent books on the subject that are backed by good research and provide much needed information you won't get from the standard government sources, being that the FDA and USDA are inextricably linked with pharma and agro-chem, in fact being 'enforcers' in the latter case.

The fact that I went 10 years with out any animal products and my health improved noticeably and I gained 10-12 (needed) pounds and other good things says that ... I went 10 years with out animal products and it went great. It says some things and doesn't say other things about anybody else's situation. It doesn't 'prove' very much that could be applied across the board, though it does dispel some myths. The other factors that went along with were (mostly) eliminating refined sugar, salt, etc. and in the early going there were more smoothies and more juicing. The best part about it all was that I found out who my local growers were and my cooking improved a lot as did my salad making and especially salad dressing concoctions (thank you Eden Spanish extra virgin olive oil and raw cider or balsamic vinegar and couple squirts of Bragg Liquid Aminos and bit of dried basil twisted in and a spoon or so of lecithin for thickening to taste, shaken and left overnight to fully emulsify).

Humans are omnivores but any body type does better with less protein than the 'standard' diet and more fruits/vegetables/grains/legumes than the other way around. The omnivorous bears are by far the largest and strongest NA predators and their diet is normally ~18% animal, 20% at most (not counting polar bears, who nevertheless still eat lots of grass and veggies in summer). Bears do not have a sausage & egg biscuit in the morning, a double bacon cheeseburger for lunch, and meatloaf/mac & cheese/potatoes/greenbeans for dinner.

Speaking of polar bears and Eskimos ...

Did I mention omega-3 fatty acids yet? Part of the reason that the Inuit 'get away with' eating so much meat is that they actually eat more blubber than meat, the ultimate high animal fat diet. The fat from the northern fish, seals, etc. however contain large amounts of omega-3 fatty acids, which do a tremendous amount of good things for the cardiovascular system and the brain. Lowers 'bad' colesteral, disperses fatty build-up in the blood vessels, etc., so then somewhat ironically especially needed for a high animal fat diet, being that usual 'land meat' doesn't have much omega-3, especially in proportion to omega-6. The Inuit never have heart problems (and they always seem happy, though I think being naked when indoors most of the time has something to do with that), but occasionally an instance of osteoporosis, which is caused by insufficient minerals in a a higher protein diet. Bottles of northern fish oils can be bought at reasonable price in the natural food stores (I trust them more than standard grocery stores), the emulsified versions being better but costing a tad more. Flax seed oil is a bit more costly but it tastes great and is good to put on or in so many things. A spoon or two can go in many smoothies and especially nut milks, on rice, on beans, some cooked vegetables, etc. The soft gel omega-3 supplements are usually the most costly, but I found a good deal at Sam's Club (where a friend has an account), Member's Mark Omega 3,6,9; equal amounts (400 mg ea.) fish oil & flax seed oil plus an essential oil blend (200 mg) of evening primrose/black currant/ borage oils. About $14 for a large plastic bottle of 325 soft gels, which at two a day should last ~ 5 months. That is a steal.

One thing I would like to say to those learning about all this for the first time, and especially those trying to adhere to a particular diet is ...

Don't worry!

The worst thing you can do is put food in your mouth while thinking "this is bad for me." Whatever table at which you find yourself, whatever you've decided to have because maybe you haven't had it in a long time, whatever is in front of you; just enjoy the heck out of it. As long as you are eating better than you have in the past overall, and if the regime you are in is any good at all, then occasional straying off the path should not be a big deal.

I think that the very good and comprehensive list that kali gave a few posts above is the best 'one stop shopping' advice overall. More local, more fresh, less GMO foods and growth hormone dairy, etc. Some of this is more expensive but certainly not all of it. When you eat less meat than in the standard diet, you can afford better cuts of meat, even organically/biodynamically raised, and still spend less overall than previously. Once you spend 3-6 months learning about all this and learning where to shop and what you like and don't like, then the 'new way' is just as easy as the old way, and hardly more expensive much of the time.


Don't worry, be happy.











MistrixMsE -> RE: Restaurants and dieting (2/14/2012 1:41:53 PM)

No processed/canned foods. Fresh ingredients with occasional frozen no preservative vegis/fruits when out of season. Greek yogurt daily with 2 cups of fruit smoothied up & 2 tbsp of flax seed. No gmos. Organic as much as possible. Cook for yourself. When you go out, enjoy, but watch portion size & leave some on your plate. Bring home leftovers if its an expensive meal and you feel like its a waste not to finish. If you have a craving, a bite or two slowly chewed/consumed and savored usually satisfies if you take time to enjoy it. Yes it really works.

My body responds better to higher protein, low grain based carb ratios, but I have kidney disease (from a birthdefect) and had cancer multiple times. Other people don't necessarily respond better to that ratio.

I'm in the best shape I've been in since 2002. My workout regimen takes me under 10 mins a day. And I am way older than I admit ;)

107 lbs, 5 ft 7.5, 34-25-33

I made those changes just over a year ago, and lost the last 18 stubborn lbs and am at same size I was as a fashion model over a decade ago. YMMV but it worked for me.




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