RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid



Message


kalikshama -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 6:38:55 PM)

Here's more:

Mapping Out The Revolving Door Between Gov't And Big Business In Venn Diagrams
from the crony-capitalism-is-corruption dept

Via Larry Lessig we get series of Venn diagrams showing the revolving door between big business and government. When people talk about regulatory capture, this is what they mean. When people talk about corruption and crony capitalism, this is what they mean. If you want a quick visual idea of why so few people trust this government to do the right thing for the people, rather than the big companies, this is why:




tj444 -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 6:39:18 PM)

"Buy Organic
Produce which is "Certified Organic" will cost more, but is your best assurance of pesticide-free status. Although the chart above is useful, it is not 100% accurate; growing methods can change from year to year, and country-of-origin considerations make it more difficult to know exactly what you're buying. For example, the US exports annually 100 - 150 million tons of banned (in the US) pesticides, and then imports fruit which may be grown using these pesticides. Buying organic, in-season produce from your local market is the best assurance of pesticide-free produce."

lets see.. pesticides banned in the US cuz its not safe for Americans but apparently safe for people in the rest of the world??? How screwed up is that??? and,.. the imported food possibly produced using those same banned pesticides could still make it onto your table... [8|]
[sm=eeew.gif]
http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/pesticide-residues.cfm




kalikshama -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 6:41:20 PM)

Loves my farmer's markets!

http://www.localharvest.org/

The best organic food is what's grown closest to you. Use our website to find farmers' markets, family farms, and other sources of sustainably grown food in your area, where you can buy produce, grass-fed meats, and many other goodies. Want to support this great web site? Shop in our catalog for things you can't find locally!





DomKen -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 6:51:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

[image]http://mycoreelements.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/guide-download1.jpg[/image]

Eat your fruits and vegetables! The health benefits of a diet rich in fruits and vegetables outweigh the risks of pesticide exposure. Use EWG's Shopper's Guide to Pesticides to reduce your exposures as much as possible, but eating conventionally-grown produce is far better than not eating fruits and vegetables at all. The Shopper's Guide to Pesticide in Produce will help you determine which fruits and vegetables have the most pesticide residues and are the most important to buy organic. You can lower your pesticide intake substantially by avoiding the 12 most contaminated fruits and vegetables and eating the least contaminated produce.

Commodity crop corn used for animal feed and biofuels is almost all produced with genetically modified (GMO) seeds, as is some sweet corn sold for human consumption. Since GMO sweet corn is not labeled as such in US stores, EWG advises those who have concerns about GMOs to buy organic sweet corn.

The Dirty Dozen

Of the 12 most contaminated foods, 6 are fruits: apples, strawberries, peaches, domestic nectarines, imported grapes and domestic blueberries. Notable findings:

* Every sample of imported nectarines tested positive for pesticides, followed by apples (97.8 percent) and imported plums (97.2 percent).
* 92 percent of apples contained 2 or more pesticide residues‚ followed by imported nectarines (90.8 percent) and peaches (85.6 percent).
* Imported grapes had 14 pesticides detected on a single sample. Strawberries, domestic grapes both had 13 different pesticides detected on a single sample.
* As a category. peaches have been treated with more pesticides than any other produce, registering combinations of up to 57 different chemicals. Apples were next, with 56 pesticides and raspberries with 51.

Celery, spinach, sweet bell peppers, potatoes, lettuce and greens (kale and collards) are the vegetables most likely to retain pesticide contamination:

* Some 96 percent all celery samples tested positive for pesticides, followed by cilantro (92.9 percent) and potatoes (91.4 percent).
* Nearly 90 percent of celery samples contained multiple pesticides, followed by cilantro (70.1 percent) and sweet bell peppers (69.4 percent).
* A single celery sample was contaminated with 13 different chemicals, followed by a single sample of sweet bell peppers (11), and greens (10).
* Hot peppers had been treated with as many as 97 pesticides, followed by cucumbers (68) and greens (66).


What's hilarious about this, and most all of this hype driven nonsense, is where did EWG get the data to base their lists? The USDA and FDA. Now correct me if I'm losing the ability to read but isn't a central thesis of all this is that the USDA and FDA are hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy? So why trust their numbers here? If they are completely in the pocket of Monsanto why aren't they faking the data to make the most contaminated foods look safest?

Do some research, our food supply is the safest, most varied and nutritious in history. When precisely was the last time you saw anyone in the US with scurvy, berriberri or any other defiency disease?




tj444 -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 7:11:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
What's hilarious about this, and most all of this hype driven nonsense, is where did EWG get the data to base their lists? The USDA and FDA. Now correct me if I'm losing the ability to read but isn't a central thesis of all this is that the USDA and FDA are hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy? So why trust their numbers here? If they are completely in the pocket of Monsanto why aren't they faking the data to make the most contaminated foods look safest?

They arent to be trusted.. imo, what they do tell you is only half the story, which is why you should be doubly cautious.. that is why those that care about their health and the health & development of their kids should grow their own if they can, failing that, buy local organic food..

"High levels of pesticide exposure among fetuses and children have been linked to negative health effects ranging from increased rates of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) to increased blood pressure. In addition, recent research finds evidence of pesticide by-products in nearly 94 percent of children studied."
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/pesticides-found-in-one-fifth-of-produce-kids-eat

"Each year, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency gives the green light for a score of agricultural chemicals to come to market. But the chemicals the EPA registers for use have little connection with the frequently more toxic substances sold by the millions of pounds to unsuspecting American consumers.
Dr. Warren Porter, a professor of zoology and environmental toxicology at the University of Wisconsin, likens the EPA’s process for registering chemicals to “bait and switch” sales tactics. Pesticide makers win approval for specific active ingredients, and then mix those chemicals with a number of other ingredients. The result is a far different formulation that has bypassed government safety reviews and is then sold to the public."

"“Virtually no pesticide is registered by the EPA. The EPA only registers the active ingredient.”"

"“The EPA is registering one thing and something very different is being sold to the public,” Porter said.

"He cites research showing links between pesticides and increasing rates of cancer, chronic diseases, birth defects, autism, learning disabilities like attention deficit disorder, obesity, diabetes and neurologic disorders. Declining sperm counts in men may also be linked with environmental toxins, Porter said. He contends that if current rates of decline continue unabated, in two generations there will be no natural human fertilization."
http://100r.org/2012/02/epa-oversight-weighing-the-parts-ignoring-the-whole/




Edwynn -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 9:20:02 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

... where did EWG get the data to base their lists? The USDA and FDA. Now correct me if I'm losing the ability to read but isn't a central thesis of all this is that the USDA and FDA are hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy? So why trust their numbers here?

If they are completely in the pocket of Monsanto why aren't they faking the data to make the most contaminated foods look safest?




The question displays a non-understanding of the discussion thus far. Once it has been determined by corporate/government fiat that the pesticides do us no harm then the food treated with them is not considered contaminated and thereby no reason to hide the numbers. In any case I'm not getting the non sequitur of the basic data itself being able to make "the most contaminated foods look safest," or vice versa. It's just numbers. The chart made from these numbers that lists foods by pesticide levels under the presumption that fewer pesticides are better was created by EGW, not the FDA or USDA.

quote:


Do some research, our food supply is the safest, most varied and nutritious in history. When precisely was the last time you saw anyone in the US with scurvy, berriberri or any other defiency disease?



Are we to have from this that pesticide treated fruits and grains are responsible for this dearth of scurvy and beriberi, whereas the same food from non-sprayed trees and plants might in some way increase the likelihood of such occurrence?  If greater yield from pesticide use is being adduced as reason for lack of deficiency, that was taken care of in this country long before modern pesticides and GMOs. We have to pay farmers not to grow food, or pay them to produce less milk or subsidize them with price supports due to over production. I think we're a few tens or hundreds million bushels beyond any food deficiency.

And the research spoken of, if actually pursued, would show that the food supply is safer because of modern day packing and shipping techniques, refrigeration for some items, modern testing technology, and various regulations concerning all that, along with greater uniformity of regulations across borders. I have not read where use of pesticides and increase in GMOs are actually responsible for modern greater food safety in comparison to former times. The food supply is more varied overall do primarily to cheaper transportation than in times past, with greater pesticide use having a far smaller role in increased variety to the extent it has any at all. But that variety is in terms of the number of different fruits and vegetables, at the expense of reduced variety within particular fruits or vegetables. For years iceberg lettuce was all the store offered sometimes; the re-emergence of lettuce varieties and salad mixes at the farmers' markets induced the stores to emulate at least some of that after some years. I was buying bok choi, white eggplants, purple potatoes, at least eight different varieties of lettuce, likewise number of tomatoes, including many heirloom varieties, etc. at the farmers' markets and natural food grocers years before I saw some part of that make its way to standard grocery produce bins. (And I don't get sprayed on while reaching for parsley when I get it at the FM or good indoor market).

As for the claim of greater nutritional value in modern industrially grown produce, I'd like to see the numbers on that. From what I've looked into, the data so far indicate an inverse relationship between per-acre crop yield and nutritional value of the vegetables themselves.







FrostedFlake -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 11:23:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog

Yeah more government regulation is what we need in our lives. I get so sick of do-gooders trying to tell us what we can put in our own damned bodies when they should really be straightening there own lives out. Who is with me?

What kind of foolishness is this? GMOs' that are not labeled deprive YOU of the ability to decide whether and what to put into your own body. If you believe in your own words, sign the petition.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/15/2012 11:53:42 PM)

"Food is not a discretionary purchase; rather, it is an absolute necessity for the vast majority of Americans who cannot produce their own food. By NOT labelling manipulated food, the producers are negating one of the most important principles of a free society - the ability to make an informed choice. In the case of our food supply, "caveat emptor" is simply immoral.

Those who are in charge of protecting out health and safety have a moral and ethical duty to do exactly that; the FDA is not chartered to protect industry profits.

Protect out health and safety, and our ability to choose, Commissioner." - HK




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 12:04:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBigDog



This just shows how deep derangement has gotten to in America these days. We can't even make decisions without government warning labels? I am a smart man and I will make my own decisions.
You can smell pesticide residues? That's a cool superpower. Hell, I used to be a chemist and my interest was analytical and I couldn't do that without tens of thousands of dollars worth of sophisticated equipment. Rock on, Rothbard!
quote:

My dad lived to be 93 years old and he didn't have any government warning labels just hard work and good genes.

Well, fuck-a-doodle-do. Bless your heart.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 12:25:57 AM)

Re: Monsanto/FANZ/Serafini -

"From the 2007 EFSA Statement (FSANZ Site footnotes):
"The Panel has considered all Student t-test results for the various contrasts provided by Monsanto, including the direct comparison of the GM maize exposed groups with the respective non-GM near-isogenic control groups, and evaluated all statistically significant differences in the test parameters. These differences have been evaluated with respect to (i) type and severity, (ii) extent and frequency of occurrence, and (iii) potential dose and sex relationship.
Observed differences in test parameters of exposed male and female rats were in most cases neither dose-related nor sex-dependent. In some cases there was an increase and in some cases a decrease in value and these were considered as isolated phenomena occurring by chance. Changes observed in certain serum or urine analysis parameters were not indicative of damage in, for instance, liver, spleen or kidney, since histopathological analysis did not show statistically significant effects."

The Student's T tests are what is significant (pun intended). I note that the determination rests, as far as I know, on the assumption that Monsanto's data wasn't "massaged", as certain corporate studies have been known to do (check out "Neurontin data" for an egregious example. Pharm compnaies get fined all; the time for shit like data manipulation and failing to submit unfavorable study results.)

Assuming Monsanto is on the up-and-up (>snort<), it would appear that there is disagreement between the governmental reviews of the statistical methods (EFSA) and the Seralini paper. (I have only checked on the credentials of one of the EFSA reviewers, Dr. Hilko van der Voet: Ph.D U of Gröningen, 1988, Mathematics and Sciences. While not a Ph.D Statician, he appears to be qualified.)

However, http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/publi

I agree that a new study should be performed (NOT by Monsanto) with a duration considerably longer than 90 days.

Considering all of the above, I don't think anything is conclusive, but I am biased against corporate-sponsored toxicology studies, as well as being convinced that Monsanto is a division of SATAN, Inc." - HK (FL group)




Bishop1984 -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 12:27:04 AM)

All of your food is genetically engineered via a technique we're used to calling "selective breeding." Get over it.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 12:28:13 AM)

Re: the list of "chemicals" allowed in organic ag: I'm not inclined to do a point-by-point; suffice it to say that that list is fairly meaningless.

BTW, drummer, try to be more concise.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 12:29:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bishop1984

All of your food is genetically engineered via a technique we're used to calling "selective breeding." Get over it.

Gee, thanks, Mr. Wizard. We've never discussed such here 20 or 30 times.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 1:01:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: drummer687



I recently debated this topic with someone...while she sat drinking and smoking her cigarettes...LMFAO!





This is freakin' funny... here the gent wants us to accept an anecdote as evidence of, I'm guessing, the invalidity of the position that organic ag is good, but earlier...
quote:

Impugning the source is a logical fallacy
He trots out this gem.

Newsflash: anecdotes are not evidence, and the use of them are also a fallacy. Also, "impugning the source" (Genetic Fallacy): "A critic commits the genetic fallacy if the critic attempts to discredit or support a claim or an argument because of its origin (genesis) when such an appeal to origins is irrelevant." http://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/

Unless drummer wishes to claim that any statements/positions/etc. from the ACS are unimpeachable, then, because of conflict of interest and adherence to ideology rather than evidence-based research, no fallacy has been committed.





kalikshama -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 6:36:37 AM)

quote:

All of your food is genetically engineered via a technique we're used to calling "selective breeding." Get over it.


Do you truly consider splicing in genes from another species to be the same as the experiments on plant hybridization performed by Mendel?




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 7:09:55 AM)

Kalik, we have covered that ground so many times ! Apparently, illogically, he, and others, do think selective breeding is the same as genetic modification.




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 7:12:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

All of your food is genetically engineered via a technique we're used to calling "selective breeding." Get over it.


Do you truly consider splicing in genes from another species to be the same as the experiments on plant hybridization performed by Mendel?


Yes, agreed kalikshama. People on this thread are confusing genetic modification with plant hybridization (something that happens both naturally, and with limited human assistance.) I'm starting to understand why there are Americans who think genetic modification is not that big of a deal. It is clear there are people who think it is not different from selective breeding or hybridization. Obviously, there is a huge educational effort needed. I think if more people actually understood what it was, there would be more objection to it than there already is.




Iamsemisweet -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 7:22:21 AM)

I couldn't agree more, FTP. Unfortunately, Monsanto has their hand so far up the government's ass that education is unlikely to ever happen. Hell, so far they have been able to get away with not even labeling their frankenfood. Imagine what they would do if there was a serious effort made to educate people! Plus, the vast majority of the people in this country are completely unaware of farming practices, and may have never met a farmer or rancher. They think food comes from the grocery store. Any education would have to start from the ground up.
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Yes, agreed kalikshama. People on this thread are confusing genetic modification with plant hybridization (something that happens both naturally, and with limited human assistance.) I'm starting to understand why there are Americans who think genetic modification is not that big of a deal. It is clear there are people who think it is not different from selective breeding or hybridization. Obviously, there is a huge educational effort needed. I think if more people actually understood what it was, there would be more objection to it than there already is.





kalikshama -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 7:23:51 AM)

http://www.responsibletechnology.org/blog/1782

It took the audience just 11 minutes―11 minutes to give up food brands they had grown up with and to commit to seek healthier non-GMO food. Of course this group had already been against genetically modified organisms as a concept. This was Greenfest after all; and in San Francisco no less. But when I asked them to honestly rate themselves on a scale of 1-100 how vigilant they had been at avoiding GMOs, the largest number of hands went up for lowest category―1-20. That's typical of most US audiences. And so is what happened next…

After showing them photos of damaged organs from lab rats fed GMOs, skin rashes from farm workers picking GM cotton, and dead livestock that had grazed on the cotton plants; when they saw rodent studies showing a 5-fold increase in infant mortality, smaller babies, sterile babies, and severe immune responses; when they realized that genes inserted into GM crops can transfer into the DNA of bacteria inside our intestines and possibly continue to function, and that the poisonous insecticide engineered into Monsanto's corn is found in the blood of pregnant women and unborn fetuses; when they learned how industry rigs their research to hide dangers and attacks independent scientists and their studies; when they discovered that FDA scientists had repeatedly warned of serious harm from GMOs, but the political appointee in charge―Monsanto's former attorney―allowed GM foods on the market without any required safety tests; and when they discovered that the same doctors' organization that first identified Gulf War syndrome, chemical sensitivities, and food allergies, now urges physicians to prescribe non-GMO diets to everyone; I asked the audience to rate themselves how vigilant they would be next week to avoid GMOs.

"How many will be low vigilance, 1-20?" No hands.

"20-40?" Still no hands

"40-60?" A couple of hands.

The most popular category shifted from the lowest vigilance (1-20) in the first vote, to the highest (80-100) in the second―just 11 minutes later.

I then reminded the audience of the strategy to eliminate GMOs, which we had discussed at the beginning: If brand managers from major food companies see any drop in market share that was attributable to growing anti-GMO sentiment in the US, it would be the food industry equivalent of a "Sell Signal." GMO ingredients would be considered a market liability and be discarded. Remember, these same companies had quickly removed GMOs from their European brands when GMO resistance spread there. To hit that sell signal in the US, we think the tipping point requires about 5% of US consumers changing their diet.

I asked the audience, "How in the world are we going to get 15 million Americans to change their diet?" After the 11 minutes, I told them, "Now we know. We just tell them the truth."

I then asked the audience to rate themselves how active they planned to be to educate people on GMOs. At the start of the presentation, most rated themselves in the lowest category. After 11 minutes, nearly everyone was in the highest.

"So you see," I said. "The same information that changes peoples' diets also makes the campaign go viral."

Endgame for GMOs

Now it's just a numbers game. Once we disseminate that information to enough people, it's the endgame for genetically modified food.

The Institute for Responsible Technology has packaged this behavior-changing message into a full range of educational materials, organized local and national action groups, trained 750 people to give public presentations, and reaches 5-10 million people each month.

Because collective consciousness is starting to awaken to this issue, it's become easier to get the word out and change lives. As the same time, we're now getting flooded with opportunities and requests. With current staffing levels, we simply can't keep up. We need your help.

We love our supporters. Our precious donors make our work possible. To you, and to everyone who has ever considered giving a donation, please understand that right now every single dollar has enormous leverage, driving us closer to a non-GMO future.

Help us harvest all this low-hanging non-GMO fruit. Please make a contribution to help end the genetic engineering of our food supply.

I wouldn't say we're in the home stretch just yet, but we're banking the turn and hear the crowd cheering. It's time to turn on the juice.

Thanks so much,

Jeffrey Smith, Executive Director
Institute for Responsible Technology




fucktoyprincess -> RE: Petition: mandatory labeling of genetically engineered foods (2/16/2012 7:32:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
"So you see," I said. "The same information that changes peoples' diets also makes the campaign go viral."

Endgame for GMOs

Now it's just a numbers game. Once we disseminate that information to enough people, it's the endgame for genetically modified food.



Thanks for the information on this. I am a big believer in information being the most important thing. People are each entitled to make whatever decision they want. But misinformation is very Orwellian. We can't say we are free, if we are free to choose, but based on limited or wrong information.

Basic economic theory posits an efficient market based on many assumptions - one of which is free and complete (implying accurate) information. Anyone who opposes the concept of dissemination of free and complete information is, in fact, interfering with the free market. It is important for all of the information (from both sides - even if some of the information is biased) to come out, so that, in the light of day, people can assess all the information, consider potential bias, and reach their own conclusions. Any other approach is simply anti-freedom.




Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875