RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (Full Version)

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Yachtie -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:45:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle So, if you disagree with my experimental results, either falsify them, or stfu. [sm=popcorn.gif]

farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:46:14 AM)
OH, so NOW you ask. It's encouraging though that once the sloppy, undisciplined thinking is pointed out, that applying correction is effective. In the future, there is some small potential for you to be useful in these rational, adult discussions. A quick survey of the available literature returned a single plausibly usable result. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EElhC5NFwXA So, let's consider that the only protocol to test is: "By watching this video, we attempt to divide our souls." After watching it, how many souls do YOU have? So, we're zero for one. Do you have any other suggestions for testing this? Because I've exhausted all the available ones that I've found.

FemmeDominion -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:46:32 AM)
quote: Indivisible soul at conception is demonstrably not possible, unless you insist that identical twins are of the devil. I personally cannot believe that God, clever enough to be creator of all things including identical twins, did not make provisions for them as part of his supposedly most cherished creations (humans.) quote: Science. It works, bitches. Yes, science and religion both work. They work up to the limits of the humans involved. They will work even better, I think, once they can catch up with natural law. ETAsk: Did you wait for a Sunday to do this or is it just a coincidence?

farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:48:12 AM)
Please prove that religion works. Show all work. Use additional sheets of paper as necessary. And if you think Sunday is the Sabbath, you're wrong.

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:49:37 AM)
There's another caller waiting who is concerned about the number of angels that can REALLY fit on the head of a pin... What do you think about that question, fargle? K.

farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:51:41 AM)
Easy Peasy: Area of Head of Pin / Avg size of angel's arse. Numerical evaluation is left as an exercise to the student.

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:56:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Easy Peasy: Area of Head of Pin / Avg size of angel's arse. Numerical evaluation is left as an exercise to the student. Oh sure, sure... That's what wrong with this world. People don't have any values anymore. [:D] K.

Yachtie -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 6:57:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Easy Peasy: Area of Head of Pin / Avg size of angel's arse. Numerical evaluation is left as an exercise to the student. Oh sure, sure... That's what wrong with this world. People don't have any values anymore. [:D] K. One question though. Is the pin metric or ASE? Could vary the number.[8\|][8\|][8\|]

FrostedFlake -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:00:31 AM)
quote: King James Version (KJV) Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. If you read your Bible, it is obvious when the guy pounding it on the pulpit is just saying whatever the hell he wants... you to think. If you read your history, it is obvious that this is the way things have always been. For example, the reason King James commissioned his own version of the Bible was... come on, you know this one... to solidify his political position. But the more things stay the same, the more they change. What the Catholics are saying today has always been so... hasn't always been so. In Moses' time, when Genesis was penned, it was irrefutable that life and death equated with breath. And so it suited his (political) purpose to write it just so. After all Jehwah was just a tribal god in a world of competing deities. You can't make people say stupid stuff if you want them to buy in to your program. Now the Catholics have another agenda. You don't stay the fastest growing religious sect without trying. And so they are promulgating under the aegis of God words that the Bible makes quite plain are not his. In doing this, the Pope directly asserts the Bible is wrong, while relying upon the Bible for the authority underlying the assertion that the Bible is wrong. So, who are you going to believe? God? Or the Pope? The Bible? Or the guy reading it to you? Think carefully. Your immortal soul is hanging in the balance. I mean, if you believe it. And, here's the rub : Thinking about this stuff is what is called DOUBT. You can't be one of the FAITHFUL if you doubt. SO YOU ARE GOING TO HELLLL!!!! Have a nice day.

FemmeDominion -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:03:15 AM)
Definition of RELIGION http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion 1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural Religions offer a way and usually a place to worship God. (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance Religions allow for and sometimes demand or ask for faith within their particular paradigm 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices Self explanatory 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness Hey, some religions ask for this as well. 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith Religions can give a systematized way of doing this.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:07:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Please show me this 'spiritual essence' which in your model is somehow packed into the chromosomes. Do you suggest that it's part of the 'junk DNA'? If that's the case, by excising the right sequences of "junk DNA" we should be able to create people without souls, correct? I haven't said that it - if present - is packed into the chromosomes. Also, your supposition that it would be limited to one type of DNA is rather ludicrous for being inconsistent. (Besides, during the past decades it has become increasingly clear that a lot of the so-called non-encoding DNA does have functions.)

FemmeDominion -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:07:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Please prove that religion works. Show all work. Use additional sheets of paper as necessary. And if you think Sunday is the Sabbath, you're wrong. These folks that your talking about: quote: the entirety of Church Dogma is predicated on an indivisible, atomic, eternal soul? You have any issues with that assertion, take it up with the Pope I guess... Maybe a Bishop can help you... I do believe that they hold Sunday as the Sabbath. And to make a blanket statement does not allow for the people who hold this day as the Sabbath for themselves. For someone out there Sunday is the Sabbath.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:10:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata There's another caller waiting who is concerned about the number of angels that can REALLY fit on the head of a pin... The answer depends on the size of the pin head and on the living room required by the average angel. Oops: Farglebargle already answered that question correctly.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:17:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake So, who are you going to believe? God? Or the Pope? The Bible? Or the guy reading it to you? Think carefully. Your immortal soul is hanging in the balance. I mean, if you believe it. A human being will make up his own mind. An animal - as most of our species still are - will have to pick his wise man to follow.

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 7:35:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake Thinking about this stuff is what is called DOUBT. You can't be one of the FAITHFUL if you doubt. SO YOU ARE GOING TO HELLLL!!!! Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith. ~Paul Tillich K.

FrostedFlake -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 8:12:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake Thinking about this stuff is what is called DOUBT. You can't be one of the FAITHFUL if you doubt. SO YOU ARE GOING TO HELLLL!!!! Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith. ~Paul Tillich K. http://thesaurus.com/browse/doubt quote: Main Entry: doubt [dout] Part of Speech: noun Definition: lack of faith, conviction; questioning Synonyms: agnosticism, ambiguity, apprehension, confusion, demurral, difficulty, diffidence, dilemma, disbelief, discredit, disquiet, distrust, dubiety, dubiousness, faithlessness, faltering, fear, hesitancy, hesitation, incertitude, incredulity, indecision, irresolution, lack of confidence, misgiving, mistrust, perplexity, problem, qualm, quandary, rejection, reluctance, scruple, skepticism, suspense, suspicion, uncertainty, vacillation, wavering Antonyms: belief, certainty, confidence, dependence, faith, reliance, trust That is just the NOUN form of doubt. The verb is considerably more active. With all due respect to Mr. Tillich, he bent the language. I wonder why. http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/p/paul_tillich.html

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 8:24:37 AM)
I follow a non-temporal variant of Buddhism, which postulates that there is only one soul, but that it is able to rejoin the time-stream at any point after the death of the mortal carrying it. Thus, I am you, and you are me, and when I swat a mosquito I swat myself. But I deserved it for biting myself anyway... Then my friend Jerry pointed out that if that is true, then any time I jack off I'm having sex with everyone in existence, Mother Teresa and Claudia Schiffer... Now that I think about it, it is probably bestiality too...

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 8:37:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake With all due respect to Mr. Tillich, he bent the language. I wonder why. Maybe to encourage people to think, instead of settling for neat little semantic clichés about things that are not so easily chopped up and packaged. But hey, I'm just spit-balling here. I suppose you could read him for yourself and find out. K.

SilverBoat -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 9:03:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Monozygotic (i.e. identical) twins divide after conception. Either the soul must be divisible or it does not come into existance at conception but at some later stage. Indivisible soul at conception is demonstrably not possible, unless you insist that identical twins are of the devil. Science. It works, bitches. Perhaps that's really more about "reasoning" than science. Galileo did lots of experiments, but his disproof of Aristotle's heavier-objects-fall-faster-because-of-their-'natures' used purely mental conjecture: what happens if a light and medium object are tied together, so that they add up to the weight of a heavy object? Does the medium object somehow become so much heavier that it drags the light object along? Or must there be some metaphysical something that flows along the string between them, that changes their natures? Your reasoning about conception and souls fits that same form. It's a soundly reasoned dissection of their faulty assertion, showing that they make inherently contradictory predictions. Of course, the religious nuts will (or have) backtrack(ed), and assert that something like multi-re-conception occurs at the instant of mitosis. Or maybe that their god anticipated the split(s) and arranged for multiple souls at the moment of acrisomy. Or something else entirely. The smarter nuts will realize they've been caught out and start weaseling, the dumber dupes will retreat into denial, citing 'authorities' and personal attacks. See the replies above (and possibly below) this for examples of that. SB

SilverBoat -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/19/2012 9:08:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds ... any time I jack off I'm having sex with everyone in existence, Mother Teresa and Claudia Schiffer... Now that I think about it, it is probably bestiality too... [sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]

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