RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:18:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yachtie fr See the science fetishists dance - What the fuck is a "Science Fetishist"? And given Science's results like GPS, antibiotics and going to the fucking moon, I can think of worse things to idealize. Know what keeps your yacht afloat? It ain't belief.

stardancer00 -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:38:09 AM)
What you are calling "soul" seems to be another way of understanding individuality. When you think about the ocean, is it possible to really separate the waves from the ocean itself? The waves are expressions of the ocean's movement. The possibilities are endless. The waves always return to the source, as well. Christians get very hung up on maintaining the separate self and the idea of the body resurrecting as a more perfect "you," for the faithful. In other cultures/religions, it is the essence of the individuality which has created a kind of imprint in space/time, and which persists, not as the "self" as you know it, but as an energy which has an overall effect. In that context, it is possible for energy to exist without the need for a fixed entity or boundary, and it can be shared in an infinite number of ways, in the same way as we see waves in the ocean.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:48:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle given Science's results like GPS Used to be rather inaccurate by tens of meters, if I recall correctly. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle antibiotics One of the worst discoveries ever. Them bacteriophages that were cultivated in the Soviet Union were far better. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle going to the fucking moon Haven't been there in a while... quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I can think of worse things to idealize. Indeed. Science is great; I think that most spiritually aware and/or religious people will agree on that. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Know what keeps your yacht afloat? It ain't belief. How do you know that? The yacht floats because it has been built to float and guess what: the people who designed and built it were certain - i.e. they believed - that it would float. If they had not been certain, they would not have built it.

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:53:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle given Science's results like GPS Used to be rather inaccurate by tens of meters, if I recall correctly. 1st generation GPS was inaccurate as you say, but only because the US military owned it, and was intentionally providing diminished capability to civilians to prevent enemies from using our own capabilities against us. Which was only fair as the GPS sats were not put up there for civilian use, and the civilian GPS was essentially a "free gift," by the military. It was much more accurate for the intended users. ;)

farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 7:07:51 AM)
quote: How do you know that? The yacht floats because it has been built to float and guess what: the people who designed and built it were certain - i.e. they believed - that it would float. If they had not been certain, they would not have built it. Maybe, y'all need to go do a little learnin about what the words 'theological belief' means versus the words 'nautical engineering'

tweakabelle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 7:52:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Monozygotic (i.e. identical) twins divide after conception. Either the soul must be divisible or it does not come into existance at conception... Or the division results because of the presence of two souls. ... Mister Obvious Hey! How come these embryos get two souls and the rest of us only one? The only way your suggestion can work is if we all have two souls .. or perhaps God discriminates (very un-PC, and unprofessional too I might add, of God to get caught out doing that isn't it? All that stuff about loving all His (sic) children equally and so on .........) ....which leads to some ticklish problems .... like what about triplets? Or quadruplets? Or ..... need I go on ...? Or what would happen if one of my 'souls' gets to go to heaven and the other some where else .... purgatory? (Do they still have it?) or ...(heavens forbid!) hell even? Wouldn't it be more productive to figure out how many angels we can fit on the head of a needle? And if we are going to be rigourous about this question: Those who claim that the embryo possesses a soul in the first place must prove scientifically the validity of that claim before they can demand any further testing of any sort. Over to you Mr Pope, and his followers.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 9:15:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Over to you Mr Pope, and his followers. I very much doubt that the popes of the past two centuries were religious or even spiritually aware - except for the one who was murdered when barely two weeks in function (JP I, I believe).

farglebargle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 10:45:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle ....which leads to some ticklish problems .... like what about triplets? Or quadruplets? Or ..... need I go on ...? And now that we have well-developed IVF procedures, what happens if a tech goes into a lab one day, and tosses a coin to determine whether or not they'll induce twinning? There's a 50/50 chance of that blastocyst needing another soul. Where's your predetermination now?

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 4:08:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Those who claim that the embryo possesses a soul in the first place must prove scientifically the validity of that claim Ah, but who actually makes that claim? K.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:25:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Monozygotic (i.e. identical) twins divide after conception. Either the soul must be divisible or it does not come into existence at conception but at some later stage. Indivisible soul at conception is demonstrably not possible, unless you insist that identical twins are of the devil. Science. It works, bitches. FUCK!!!!! Can't they be two souls?

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:35:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie FUCK!!!!! Can't they be two souls? Nope, now shush. It has to be either one or none. That's just rational science. [:D] K.

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:37:00 PM)
Some have speculated that Left Handed individuals are the result of having a twin who was miscarried early enough in pregnancy that the woman didn't notice, but late enough to influence the other fetus. If so, perhaps souls only go to right handed people. Sinister, isn't it? Note, Sinister originally meant left handed ;)

Lucylastic -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:42:14 PM)
what about a twin who is subsumed?,

tazzygirl -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:45:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds Some have speculated that Left Handed individuals are the result of having a twin who was miscarried early enough in pregnancy that the woman didn't notice, but late enough to influence the other fetus. If so, perhaps souls only go to right handed people. Sinister, isn't it? Note, Sinister originally meant left handed ;) How would that work? Identical twins come from the same inseminated egg, one placenta. Fraternal twins would not have a genetic influence on each other.

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:50:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic what about a twin who is subsumed?, Even worse, the sinister twin ATE his/her sibling!!! quote: How would that work? Identical twins come from the same inseminated egg, one placenta. Fraternal twins would not have a genetic influence on each other. Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom.

tazzygirl -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:53:07 PM)
quote: Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom. Hmpf.. and the first time I do not take you seriously, you are gonna get snippy. Men!

LookieNoNookie -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 5:58:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie FUCK!!!!! Can't they be two souls? Nope, now shush. It has to be either one or none. That's just rational science. [:D] K. Shit. Ya know....if I had a bag of Pop Rocks and I put them all in my mouth.....there'd be a fuckload more of pop rocks). (I'm on to something here....and I don't give a shit what anyone says).

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:06:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: Sorry Tazzy, didn't put up the snark flag. My entire post is tongue in cheek, please do not seek wisdom from my madness, seek it in your own madness instead. I can barely find my wallet in my madness, much less wisdom. Hmpf.. and the first time I do not take you seriously, you are gonna get snippy. Men! But of course, did you think only women were allowed to be changeable of mind? One must have a bit of chaos within one if one is to give birth to a dancing star.

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 6:59:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie (I'm on to something here....and I don't give a shit what anyone says). Well that's more like it. Now you're getting with the general theme of this thread. K.

tweakabelle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/20/2012 11:34:42 PM)
And much as I hate to be difficult .... What about Siamese twins? Do they get a soul each? Or half a soul each? Or a 60-40 split? And what effects might operations to separate them have on this delicate balance ...........? I suspect it might take a miracle to get to the bottom of this ......... [:D]

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