RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins?

RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/21/2012 8:32:04 PM)
There are a number of humorous thought problems which show up if we start from the assumption that an ancient supernatural explanation for how the mind works is correct. For instance when Phineas Gage died was his ghost 1848 Phineas Gage or 1860 Phineas Gage? "Perhaps the first reported case of personality change after brain injury is that of Phineas Gage, who survived an accident in which a large iron rod was driven through his head, destroying one or both of his frontal lobes; numerous cases of personality change after brain injury have been reported since.[link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_brain_injury#cite_note-Mattson90-23][/link]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_brain_injury

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/27/2012 8:36:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception" Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith.

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/27/2012 8:44:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception" Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith. Combine Bush's stances in the minimum number of words: Life begins at Occupation

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/27/2012 9:00:52 AM)
What about split brain patients? How does that work? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iNMxjxL7k&feature=related

xXLithiumXx -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/27/2012 9:32:22 AM)
I was an identical twin. My sister died at the second trimester. They said that we would have been mirror twins. But I think that is based on the fact that her heart was on the wrong side, flipped backwards and upside down. I know of many others like me who lost a twin either before or shortly after birth. I don't know when the soul comes into play. None of us do, and any assumption on the part of science, religion or the every day practitioner of whatever constitutes real and deep thought in this world any more, that says that they do is full of shit. It's all just speculative theory-no matter what "spiritual" aspect of the human...condition...you look at. The soul of a person, in my opinion, is not some mystical thing that you can really define. It is what makes us who we are as people. I think it is an ever shifting and changing thing, shaped by our hearts and experiences. Maybe that sounds kind of hippie-esque. I dunno. But as someone who had a twin that died, even before I knew her, I can tell you that it leaves a big gap there for you. Even as a child, before I could understand that I was a twin and that she was lost, my parents and grand parents said that I would "look" for her. They said that there were times when they would walk into the room and I would be speaking a different language all together, but there would be no one in the room with me. Now, granted, I was raised by superstitious Italian grandparents for the most part, and that maybe where that comes from, but I do know as an adult, I have always felt as if something was missing, like no one was really meshing with me, or like I was...just alone, I guess is the best way to put it. I dunno that any of that is worth anything, in the grand scheme of things, I dunno that it means that my soul was split and half of it is gone to where ever souls go when they die...I just know that I spend a little bit of time now and again wondering if things would have been any different if she had lived. ETA- I did post this before reading all of the responses, and I am probably somewhat out of my intellectual league with you folks here on the Reg and Poli board...but...I figured maybe the perspective of someone like me would help...I dunno how enlightening it would be...but maybe..

tweakabelle -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:31:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Im sure at this point many can see the problem with the notion that "Life begins at conception" Sure, It's a demonstrably false position but that doesn't stop people from holding it. After all they have Faith. Combine Bush's stances in the minimum number of words: Life begins at Occupation Now there's a thought! Up there with the Stem Cell Non-Proliferation Treaty I'd guess! [:D]

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:51:08 AM)
FR Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down.

DaddySatyr -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 8:16:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down. I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away? Peace and comfort, Michael

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 8:32:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down. I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away? Peace and comfort, Michael Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though...

DaddySatyr -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 8:49:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down. I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away? Peace and comfort, Michael Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though... Nor am I a horticulturist but, I've done some (successful) gardening and I'd be willing to bet that 22% would be a very high percentage. I could be wrong but, I doubt it. Also, I'm not so sure that pruning is done before blooming. I guess there would be some amount of pruning, at that stage (buds) but, I would assume that it would just be removing the dead/slow growing buds so that the tree's resources are not wasted (photosynthesis is a bitch) on buds that won't be very "healthy" leaves. Peace and comfort, Michael

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 8:59:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr quote: ORIGINAL: Rule FR Pondering the issue, to me it seems most likely that a soul is like a leaf on a tree: it buds, grows, feeds the tree, shrivels, dies and falls down and is decomposed and its elements are taken up by the tree again. And new leaves are budding, some nearly precisely - but not quite - like the leaves that fell down. I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away? Peace and comfort, Michael Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though... Nor am I a horticulturist but, I've done some (successful) gardening and I'd be willing to bet that 22% would be a very high percentage. I could be wrong but, I doubt it. Also, I'm not so sure that pruning is done before blooming. I guess there would be some amount of pruning, at that stage (buds) but, I would assume that it would just be removing the dead/slow growing buds so that the tree's resources are not wasted (photosynthesis is a bitch) on buds that won't be very "healthy" leaves. Peace and comfort, Michael Again, you make a wonderful argument for the Pro-choice position, LOL. A branch that can't support more leaves? Prune it (e.g. a woman with kids who can't afford another, the most common type of abortion). A branch overshadowed by other branches? Prune the buds and let it grow into the light (e.g. teen mothers or others who are not yet ready for children) Sickly branch? Prune it (e.g. father has abandoned pregnant woman) dead/slow growing buds? Prune it (e.g. birth defects or conjenital issues) pruning is done before blooming, aka. abortions are better than infanticide. Now we just need to come up with a description of rape/incest in the tree pruning motif

DaddySatyr -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 9:25:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds Again, you make a wonderful argument for the Pro-choice position, LOL. A branch that can't support more leaves? Prune it (e.g. a woman with kids who can't afford another, the most common type of abortion). A branch overshadowed by other branches? Prune the buds and let it grow into the light (e.g. teen mothers or others who are not yet ready for children) Sickly branch? Prune it (e.g. father has abandoned pregnant woman) dead/slow growing buds? Prune it (e.g. birth defects or conjenital issues) pruning is done before blooming, aka. abortions are better than infanticide. Now we just need to come up with a description of rape/incest in the tree pruning motif I guess your analogies are okay but, I vehemently object to you equating a dead-beat dad to the branch being "sickly". As a matter of fact, anything that involves a dad in any of your analogies renders them false (well, problematic). Here's why: A bud only needs the tree to sustain it. Now, for photosynthesis, the tree needs water, sunlight, nutrients from the ground, and carbondioxide. If you remove any one of those four things, the tree (society) will eventually die. The tree cannot live without them. To complete my objection to your analogy; we have the ability to artificially supply water, imitate sunlight, fertilize the ground, and the good Lord knows we make some carbondioxide (I would call this "welfare" in the absence of the payche ... errrr ... father) Like it or not, we have three generations of cases of a mother and baby surviving with the absence of a father (just as a personal note: We have far too many cases of mothers and babies *not* surviving the same predicament) so, your analogy really doesn't work. As far as the birth defects analogy: who should prune it? The tree? The owner of the tree? The creator of the tree? To me, this is dicey territory (especially if it were ever to be mandated). Peace and comfort, Michael

Kirata -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 9:52:07 AM)
Some men drool over women with big buds, others like thick trunks, I'm more of a root man myself. [image]http://www.evewomensmedical.com/Stock-Photos-RESIZED/Lipo/iStock_000009604668XSmall.jpg[/image] K.

DaddySatyr -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 9:54:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Some men drool over women with big buds, others like thick trunks, I'm more of a root man myself. K. I like the part that goes over the fence, last, myself. Peace and comfort, Michael

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:11:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoftBonds Now I'm not a horticulturist, but I'm pretty sure you just described pruning, a practice that makes the plant healtier and stronger. Somehow I doubt that was your intent though... Damn you beat me to it.

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:13:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I wonder how well the tree would survive if we removed 22% of the buds before they became leaves and threw them away? quote: ORIGINAL:http://www.leaflimb.com/faq Q: Is there a good time of year to do tree removal or trimming? A: Removing trees can be done any time of the year. If you are doing a moderate trimming (25% or less of the canopy), then you can do so any time except Spring. During Spring the trees are starting to blossom and the sap rises, which causes them to “bleed” if pruned. For severe pruning (25% or more of the canopy) it is best to wait until late fall/early winter before we have hard freezes and after the leaves have fallen. Trees are relatively dormant during this time of year and can withstand severe trimming.

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:18:16 PM)
Must resist Euthenasia quote...

GotSteel -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:25:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: xXLithiumXx I don't know when the soul comes into play. None of us do, and any assumption on the part of science, religion or the every day practitioner of whatever constitutes real and deep thought in this world any more, that says that they do is full of shit. It's all just speculative theory-no matter what "spiritual" aspect of the human...condition...you look at. The soul of a person, in my opinion, is not some mystical thing that you can really define. It is what makes us who we are as people. I think it is an ever shifting and changing thing, shaped by our hearts and experiences. Maybe that sounds kind of hippie-esque. I dunno. The problem with claiming that the soul is what makes us who we are as people is, that job is already taken by the brain.

Rule -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:36:05 PM)
I guess that you are a dreamless automaton... Or perchance you live in Oz, scaring the crows, and you read us snippets from your stuffing?

SoftBonds -> RE: OK, if the soul begins from conception, then what about identical twins? (2/28/2012 7:47:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I guess that you are a dreamless automaton... Or perchance you live in Oz, scaring the crows, and you read us snippets from your stuffing? Dreams are pretty obviously the result of Brain activity too... I mean, you can pick them up on an EEG or MRI. Heck, we even know what chemical shuts down the transfer from short term memory to long term memory so that you don't remember your dreams (unless you write it down or keep it in your thoughts until the brain purges that sleep chemical). Some evidence that Dreams are a process that allows the brain to re-organize memories and clean up the clutter of the mind. As for the veiled crack that he was the scarecrow from Oz, you basically called him brainless, I don't think that was cool...

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875