RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss.

RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (Full Version)

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GrandPoobah -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 3:13:26 AM)
So, for the sake of this discussion, let's say you're in your mid 20's, you and the love of your life just got married and are hoping to start a family some day...not right now...and she get's raped. It turns out she's pregnant. What would you think if the options were: 1. She must carry and deliver the child (whether or not she and you decide to keep the child afterwards, or 2. She can have the abortion, but must be sterilized, meaning the two of you can never have your own children in the future. Somehow, it's just another example that "one size fits all" never really works in the real world. The obvious solution is to allow abortions, and let people make their own choices. They might choose "wrong" but that's their choice. You might not agree, but unless your name is God, your opinion is just your opinion. Remember, opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one, but the only one that really matters is your own.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 3:53:15 AM)
quote: My health insurance is not covered by the government.. Birth control is not covered by my insurance... Viagra is A hysterectomy covered at 70% , or tubal ligation covered at 40%.. and i cant have on until im at least 35 or have three children... Because i might change my mind... A Vasectomy is covered at 80% and is allowed at age 28 or after 2 children because its easier to freeze sperm... An abortion is not covered.... unless the reason is to health risks of the mother.. however pregnancy up to 250,000 dollars is covered. I have sex, i have sex regularly and often, if i get knocked up i will pay to get an abortion on my own dime... HOWEVER... im sick and fucking tired of it all being the woman, the woman the woman... it takes two to tango... but only the woman is the villian, the whore the slut... The woman the woman the woman... Its just as easy to say men shouldnt even touch their penis unless they plan on reproducing... and otherwise it should be locked in a chasity device until it can be used for procreation only... Im sure.. that would go over real well rolls eyes My insurance company makes it VERY damned hard for me to be safe and careful, i have to pay a hell of a lot out of pocket to make sure no sort of parasite grows in my stomach... However they make it very easy at 4 dollars a bottle for men to get hard, but at 78$ every three months for me to get depo.... Did you read the part where I said Viagra shouldn't be covered? Did you? Did you read the part where I said that I support vasectomy over tubal ligation/hysterectomy? Did you? And here is where "the lifestyle" has shortcomings. If you stick to a monogamous sexual relationship - both of you - he won't have sex if you don't have sex. The only reason you are reading that it's all about the woman, is because that's the parameters that have been set. It's a "woman's right to choose," or "a woman's health issue." And those are the abortion supporters. If you have private insurance that you pay out of your pocket that will cover abortions and birth control...go for it. You're paying for it, not me. The taxpayers didn't even get the enjoyment of the intercourse and women want them to fork it out for their abortion. Sorry, ain't happening. You choose to have sex and have it regularly. I can only assume you are taking precautions to prevent pregnancy. You have to accept the risks associated with the consensual decision to have sex. Why not make your guy double up on condoms? Have him get a vasectomy. And, again, I have no problem with you choosing to get an abortion if you get pregnant. But, that is because you are paying for it, not me.

DaddySatyr -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 4:11:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri And here is where "the lifestyle" has shortcomings. If you stick to a monogamous sexual relationship - both of you - he won't have sex if you don't have sex. The only reason you are reading that it's all about the woman, is because that's the parameters that have been set. It's a "woman's right to choose," or "a woman's health issue." And those are the abortion supporters. If you have private insurance that you pay out of your pocket that will cover abortions and birth control...go for it. You're paying for it, not me. The taxpayers didn't even get the enjoyment of the intercourse and women want them to fork it out for their abortion. Sorry, ain't happening. These two paragraphs point to the idea of entitlement in this country. It's pretty funny (to me) that whenever a birth control issue comes up, the females start with the "What about the men?" stuff. I wonder if they've ever read the 14th amendment or if they think the ERA should pass. I wonder if they think that ladies are somehow excluded from being responsible for their actions. And that, again, speaks to entitlement (in generality). It's the over-all belief that the government should be the big fixer. Why should *anyone* take any personal responsibility if, instead we can suck at the government teat? Why not just skip all the square-dancing and completely empower "Big Brother", right now? I'm sure the loss of personal freedoms would go completely un-noticed. The hard, sad, truth is that freedom demands responsibility. The reason we've given up so many freedoms in this country without so much as a peep is because we've given up personal responsibility, also. It's a plague on all our houses (collectively; not individually). Peace and comfort, Michael

PeonForHer -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 4:50:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr The hard, sad, truth is that freedom demands responsibility. Careful where you go with that one. Someday, someone is going to argue that if, as an old person, you can't support yourself, you should pack yourself off to some hospital in order to be killed off in some orderly and civilised fashion. After all, if we can talk about socially undesirable persons who shouldn't be alive at one end of the age spectrum, why not at the other end, too?

DaddySatyr -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:00:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr The hard, sad, truth is that freedom demands responsibility. Careful where you go with that one. Someday, someone is going to argue that if, as an old person, you can't support yourself, you should pack yourself off to some hospital in order to be killed off in some orderly and civilised fashion. After all, if we can talk about socially undesirable persons who shouldn't be alive at one end of the age spectrum, why not at the other end, too? A) How did age come into this? and 2) I already know I won't live to be old and I'll spend my final days in a hospice but thank you. Peace and comfort, Michael

Moonhead -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:04:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Careful where you go with that one. Someday, someone is going to argue that if, as an old person, you can't support yourself, you should pack yourself off to some hospital in order to be killed off in some orderly and civilised fashion. After all, if we can talk about socially undesirable persons who shouldn't be alive at one end of the age spectrum, why not at the other end, too? If we're talking about the libertarian massive, I'd suspect that they'll be thinking ice floes, not hospitals. Paying taxes so that some old fart who can't work can have a lethal injection and a quiet dignified death? Screw that...

farglebargle -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:11:22 AM)
Lethal Injection? Do you have any idea what that shit costs? Nope. They'll get a bottle of helium, a hose, and a plastic hood and be happy with it!

Moonhead -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:18:01 AM)
Maybe a bus could be arranged to the nearest meat packing plant and they can just be pushed into the grinders instead? Hell, people who eat at Mickey D's aren't fussy eaters, and selling them as meat would cover some of the cost of transporting them there...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:31:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Maybe a bus could be arranged to the nearest meat packing plant and they can just be pushed into the grinders instead? Hell, people who eat at Mickey D's aren't fussy eaters, and selling them as meat would cover some of the cost of transporting them there... Soylent Green (aka McRibs) .... is People!!

farglebargle -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:33:13 AM)
The USDA has some pretty strict regulations against that sort of thing currently, but you know, an unregulated Free Market will devolve to the point where human meat is offered for sale openly, so I suppose it's not a show stopper.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 5:45:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Did you read the part where I said Viagra shouldn't be covered? Did you? Did you read the part where I said that I support vasectomy over tubal ligation/hysterectomy? Did you? And here is where "the lifestyle" has shortcomings. If you stick to a monogamous sexual relationship - both of you - he won't have sex if you don't have sex. The only reason you are reading that it's all about the woman, is because that's the parameters that have been set. It's a "woman's right to choose," or "a woman's health issue." And those are the abortion supporters. If you have private insurance that you pay out of your pocket that will cover abortions and birth control...go for it. You're paying for it, not me. The taxpayers didn't even get the enjoyment of the intercourse and women want them to fork it out for their abortion. Sorry, ain't happening. You choose to have sex and have it regularly. I can only assume you are taking precautions to prevent pregnancy. You have to accept the risks associated with the consensual decision to have sex. Why not make your guy double up on condoms? Have him get a vasectomy. And, again, I have no problem with you choosing to get an abortion if you get pregnant. But, that is because you are paying for it, not me. Im on a 99.7 percent effective birth control, that i give to myself at every 10.5 weeks instead of the 12 to 14 weeks (the .3 has been reported to have been with regular injections between 12 and 14) so... I also use condoms each and every time... However... I personally was concieved with the woman using birth control, a cervical cap, and a condom... My sister has two children both were concieved while on birth control and the use of a condom... My neighbor, had a vasectomy, and still had two children afterwards. Birth control is not 100 percent.. the only 100 percent is to not have sex at all.. And frankly im sorry im not giving up my orgasms because of a chance... Its only on the woman to take "personal" responsibility... because she dared to enjoy herself... Dared to have fun and dared to do something other then what men deem acceptable.... I wanna see some of you men take "personal" responsibility by keeping it in your pants for a few years, to never engage in a one night stand, and to only have sexually monogamous relationships...and only have sex for procreation.... One guy can impregnate up to 15 women in one night if hes got any skill...that means the onus because of sheer number should be on the male to not fuck... because ya know i can get knocked up and fuck thousands... still only one babys gonna come out...

Moonhead -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 6:02:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle The USDA has some pretty strict regulations against that sort of thing currently, but you know, an unregulated Free Market will devolve to the point where human meat is offered for sale openly, so I suppose it's not a show stopper. Yep. We all know that the FDA and USDA are jut blocking sources of cheap meat and nobbling packagers' and retailers' profits...

DesideriScuri -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 6:10:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Im on a 99.7 percent effective birth control, that i give to myself at every 10.5 weeks instead of the 12 to 14 weeks (the .3 has been reported to have been with regular injections between 12 and 14) so... I also use condoms each and every time... However... I personally was concieved with the woman using birth control, a cervical cap, and a condom... My sister has two children both were concieved while on birth control and the use of a condom... My neighbor, had a vasectomy, and still had two children afterwards. Birth control is not 100 percent.. the only 100 percent is to not have sex at all.. And frankly im sorry im not giving up my orgasms because of a chance... Its only on the woman to take "personal" responsibility... because she dared to enjoy herself... Dared to have fun and dared to do something other then what men deem acceptable.... I wanna see some of you men take "personal" responsibility by keeping it in your pants for a few years, to never engage in a one night stand, and to only have sexually monogamous relationships...and only have sex for procreation.... One guy can impregnate up to 15 women in one night if hes got any skill...that means the onus because of sheer number should be on the male to not fuck... because ya know i can get knocked up and fuck thousands... still only one babys gonna come out... And, SpiritedRadiance, I get where you're coming from. Any couple on fertility to get pregnant would be jealous as anything to have your family's ability to procreate. At no point in time did I ever say that the man has nothing to do with making sure the female doesn't get pregnant. Not a one. Since you're implying you need a man to orgasm, what are you going to do if all men kept it in their "pants for a few years?" You know the risks. You choose to engage in a risky behavior. If you end up getting what you are very actively trying to prevent, it is still your and your partner's responsibility, not mine or taxpayer's. And, that, is precisely where I'm coming from. You can do whatever you want as long as you are the one dealing with the consequences of your action.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 6:16:43 AM)
however... im responsible as a tax payer and with paying for my private insurance...to foot the bill for people who are compelled to breed.. Tax payer money shouldnt be used to fund a pregnancy... nor should my insurance go up 9% every year to cover the fact that the wives of where i work keep getting knocked up... But I dont have a say where my tax money goes, neither do you and while it sucks you dont want to pay for an abortion it sure as fucking hell sucks that i have to pay for some fucking parasite to be brought to term....because some couple wanted a baby.... so we can both be pissed off that the world doesnt go our way...

SoftBonds -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 6:41:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance One guy can impregnate up to 15 women in one night if hes got any skill...that means the onus because of sheer number should be on the male to not fuck... That isn't skill, that is superhuman. I think about 5 in one night is more reasonable. Of course, even at 1 a night, a man can create 280 kids in the time it takes a woman to make 1, so your point stands.

PeonForHer -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 7:04:12 AM)
FR As a matter of interest, when and why did children stop being seen as any nation's most precious 'capital' and start being seen as an indulgence for feckless parents and a burden on society? Has this got something to do with it being quite a few decades now since we were all packing off our kids to get slaughtered in some war?

DesideriScuri -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 7:53:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance however... im responsible as a tax payer and with paying for my private insurance...to foot the bill for people who are compelled to breed.. Tax payer money shouldnt be used to fund a pregnancy... nor should my insurance go up 9% every year to cover the fact that the wives of where i work keep getting knocked up... But I dont have a say where my tax money goes, neither do you and while it sucks you dont want to pay for an abortion it sure as fucking hell sucks that i have to pay for some fucking parasite to be brought to term....because some couple wanted a baby.... so we can both be pissed off that the world doesnt go our way... Don't you see how stupid this is getting?!? You are almost arguing that it's okay for me to be ticked at my taxes going to fund abortions because your taxes are going to fund pregnancies. How stupid is that? The true "solution" to this would be for Government to not fund either. And I would support that to the end. Do not use my money to pay for someone's abortion, and do not use my money to pay for someone's birth. Neither is authorized in the Constitution. Neither should be done. While we're at it, you have the choice to carry insurance (for now), or to not carry insurance. If you can't find an insurance company that doesn't cover abortions, or can't find one that won't cover births, you may have found your Market niche for a good (a new insurance). If you can't find it in the Market, either there aren't enough people wanting it, or no one has thought to provide it. Either way, you are presented with your options. It is your choice. Anyone have any stats on the explosion of medical costs with the explosion of insurance coverage? I believe I was once "schooled" by a die hard Progressive that the biggest cause of medical cost increases can be linked to the emergence of insurance policies. Would like to see if that is true or not. If it is true, wouldn't dropping insurance options be better than adding to coverage?

Moonhead -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 8:17:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR As a matter of interest, when and why did children stop being seen as any nation's most precious 'capital' and start being seen as an indulgence for feckless parents and a burden on society? Has this got something to do with it being quite a few decades now since we were all packing off our kids to get slaughtered in some war? I think that's probably got more to do with the fact that the underclass (particularly immigrants, a lot of the time) are breeding faster than well off white Mail readers than anything else.

xssve -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 8:27:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I can imagine that a lot of the crazies would fall in line behind a movement which says, since they're irresponsible, we need to save them from themselves and prevent them from aborting another baby by taking away their ability to get pregnant. As long as the crazies think of woman as their own private breeding stock, as evidenced by all their claims, how long do you think before this comes around? Seems a little harsh, why don't they just take it up the ass?

tazzygirl -> RE: Sterilize all woman getting abortions? Pro or Con? Discuss. (2/20/2012 8:30:17 AM)
quote: Having said that; I have often toyed with the idea of birth control (as mentioned, previously) for people on public assistance or for those that demand more than one abortion on the government dime because it is not permanent. Ah the implants. And what if they arent able to have the implants? No assistance? quote: You should not use IMPLANON if you are pregnant or think you may be pregnant, have or have had blood clots, have unexplained vaginal bleeding, have liver disease, have or have had breast cancer, or if you are allergic to anything in IMPLANON. quote: The use of IMPLANON and other progestin-only hormonal contraceptives have been associated with ectopic pregnancy, bleeding irregularities, and ovarian cysts. The use of hormonal contraceptives is associated with increased risks of several serious side effects including blood clots which may lead to stroke or heart attack. Blood clots are a side effect of birth control pills and pregnancy. It is unknown if the risk of blood clots with IMPLANON is different than with birth control pills. Some examples of blood clots are deep vein thrombosis (legs), pulmonary embolism (lungs), retinal thrombosis (eyes), stroke (head), and heart attack (heart). There have been reports of blood clots, including pulmonary emboli and strokes, in patients using IMPLANON. Tell your doctor at least 4 weeks before if you are going to have surgery or will need to be on bed rest, because you have an increased chance of experiencing blood clots during surgery or bed rest. http://www.implanon-usa.com/en/consumer/index.asp So, because men dont 1) want to keep their cocks in their pants 2) want to take responsibility on their own and get snipped, 3) want to take responsibility for the outcome, 4) want to allow women the right to abortion... A woman much face all those complications just so society can feel justified in giving her a check????

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