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At least the bill doesn't propose instituting pro-life Stork Bucks or outlawing "space abortions"...yet.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

I think the intentions of this bill (though, perhaps not clearly defined), regarding miscarriages, are to protect fetuses and to make it a crime to actively participate in the death of the fetus. An non-"natural" manner of miscarriage could include behaviors that put the fetus at risk, including alcohol consumption, smoking, drugs, and other manner that could be decided to be neglect or endangerment. It would also criminalize those who harm a pregnant woman, also causing her to miscarry.

The alteration of victim to accuser in those instances could very easily be due to the "innocent until proven guilty" rules we live by. Think of the Duke rape case. The woman that was the rape "victim" was no victim. She was an accuser and the Duke Lacrosse team members were found not guilty.

All that being said...how you can hold someone accountable for something they don't even know, is ridiculous. Thus, if a woman is 20 days pregnant (according to the OP's quoted section, common pregnancy tests aren't accurate until at least 21 days) and she drinks heavily and miscarries, how is she fairy accountable for child endangerment or neglect?

I like that there are people willing to make laws that protect a fetus from harm. I really do. I also like that there are people who are looking out for unintended consequences of vague and ambiguous laws. This bill, in the form cited, should not pass. It should not even come up for a vote. It is too vague and needs to be better focused. There should be little "wiggle room" for transient fad interpretations. This is how things go awry so quickly.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I have not made any direct comment against Medicare because of the un-Constitutionality, but I have made the comment that Government shouldn't pay for anyone's health insurance/care because it isn't in the Constitution. I accept that I referred to Medicare, but it is also more than just Medicare.

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I just came off moderation,so all I'm going to do here is welcome you to the wonderful world of CollarMe....you should fit in nicely
Please take a seat on the FAR-right of the auditorium

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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I just came off moderation,so all I'm going to do here is welcome you to the wonderful world of CollarMe....you should fit in nicely
Please take a seat on the FAR-right of the auditorium

welcome back, my darlin

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Utah passed a similar bill, sponsored by Sen. Margaret Dayton, a Republican, into law in February of 2010 that allows women to be criminally charged if they cannot prove a miscarriage was accidental. Women could be legally held responsible for miscarriages caused by “reckless behavior.”

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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Utah passed a similar bill, sponsored by Sen. Margaret Dayton, a Republican, into law in February of 2010 that allows women to be criminally charged if they cannot prove a miscarriage was accidental. Women could be legally held responsible for miscarriages caused by “reckless behavior.”

Wow, I didn't realize we had a law like this and it's been around for 2 years already. How many women have they gone after so far? I am surprised we haven't read about the different cases already.

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Yeah, the government pays for VA medical care too!

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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Utah passed a similar bill, sponsored by Sen. Margaret Dayton, a Republican, into law in February of 2010 that allows women to be criminally charged if they cannot prove a miscarriage was accidental. Women could be legally held responsible for miscarriages caused by “reckless behavior.”

Wow, I didn't realize we had a law like this and it's been around for 2 years already. How many women have they gone after so far? I am surprised we haven't read about the different cases already.

Why are you surprised?

1. If I interpret this right, the first step would be a doctor reporting this to authorities. Any ob-gyn doing this could kiss his or her patients goodbye. Not to mention that this would likely be a violation of doctor-patient confidentiality and HIPAA.

2. If any prosecutor tried to push this, he or she would get laughed at and his or her ass handed to them by the court. Clear violation of the SCOTIS Roe vs Wade ruling (how can a state criminalize something that is required to be legal at the federal level?), as well as the bedrock presumption of innocence.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I just came off moderation,so all I'm going to do here is welcome you to the wonderful world of CollarMe....you should fit in nicely
Please take a seat on the FAR-right of the auditorium

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I have not made any direct comment against Medicare because of the un-Constitutionality, but I have made the comment that Government shouldn't pay for anyone's health insurance/care because it isn't in the Constitution. I accept that I referred to Medicare, but it is also more than just Medicare.

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Yeah, the government pays for VA medical care too!

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
I just came off moderation,so all I'm going to do here is welcome you to the wonderful world of CollarMe....you should fit in nicely
Please take a seat on the FAR-right of the auditorium

Thanks for the welcome. Don't care where in the auditorium I sit (with only provision) as I am not truly a partisan. My only seating provision is that it be next to the Constitution.

In a nutshell: I fully believe the intention of the Founders was for a conservative interpretation of the US Constitution. So, all my arguments will stem from there. I fully believe Government owes We the People conservative fiscal policies. I am all for robust social welfare programs, but not through Government agencies; private agencies are much more efficient than bureaucracies.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
I have not made any direct comment against Medicare because of the un-Constitutionality, but I have made the comment that Government shouldn't pay for anyone's health insurance/care because it isn't in the Constitution. I accept that I referred to Medicare, but it is also more than just Medicare.

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Yeah, the government pays for VA medical care too!

The difference, though, is that those the Government is providing medical care for have served our Country and would have given their lives to protect every one of us. In essence, it's more of an employer/employee program. I absolutely do fully support the Federal VA programs. The only question I have in regards to those programs is, "are they doing enough?"

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Roe v. Wade was about abortion, not miscarriage.

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The difference, though, is that those the Government is providing medical care for have served our Country and would have given their lives to protect every one of us. In essence, it's more of an employer/employee program. I absolutely do fully support the Federal VA programs. The only question I have in regards to those programs is, "are they doing enough?"

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn

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Roe v. Wade was about abortion, not miscarriage.

It is tossing missiles from another direction. It has everything to do with getting to the goal of legal prevention of abortion, this being one potential pathway. This legal stratagem is one siege machine. If found to be successful, more will follow.

There are already laws in place concerning death to the fetus in a violent act upon the mother. Though simply making it a greater crime for the violent act to result in fetal death was all that was necessary, and already in place in many states, a particular interested party succeeded in changing the existing laws or having new laws pass that held the death of the fetus to be a separate offense, thereby setting the precedent of granting separate legal status to the fetus.

The claim of the slippery slope leading to you-know-where asserted by those opposing this precedent seems to be valid, as evidenced by this further excursion into 'fetal rights' of these new laws.

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ORIGINAL: kalikshama

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Yeah, the government pays for VA medical care too!

Yo, I EARNED that!