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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
tj444, I completely understand what you are saying. But do you think it would really make sense to structure a country's entire school system to be geared towards those who are mavericks? By definition a maverick is someone who has very independent views, or who doesn't fit into the conventional. If you geared all of education to them, I think you would fail society as a whole.

I consider Warren Buffett and Bill Gates to both be entrepreneurs. But they were both disciplined students in grade school. They both graduated from high school. They weren't children who had disciplinary issues when they were growing up. Gates dropped out of Harvard to found Microsoft - not because he couldn't do well at Harvard, but he already had his idea, and wanted to start. Buffett ended up going to Columbia for business school - and it was during his graduate degree that he met his financial mentor. Both these men are considered classic American entrepreneurs. But they were both able to function in a school environment, and, in fact, attend some of the top universities in the country. So again, let us not confuse entrepreneurship with an inability to get through high school. Graduating from high school does not mean someone is only fit to be a cog in a wheel. Is that really what you think of ALL high school graduates? Because the school that we are discussing in this thread is grade school. Not college. I understand you stopped after a year of college. But are you actually suggesting you would be better off if you had dropped out of high school? If you are, then fine. But I think a high school degree (or some other technical equivalent) is tremendously helpful to most people. Even those who seek out technical training after high school usually benefit from their grade school education (some level of reading, mathematics and communication skills really are necessary in the real world).

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If I was a teenager at that school and received a demerit over untied shoelaces, I'd spend my time trying to catch teachers and administrators with untied shoelaces instead of concentrating on my studies. Then I'd call them on it and demand $5 just to embarrass them and show them how the students feel. I was well behaved in school because I wasn't treated like shit. Crap like this would've enraged me and perhaps even turned me into a delinquent.

To me this just makes you sound like an angry, bitter person and if I was a teacher and you were the student I'd simply put you in detention and after the third, suspend you because apparently you don't care squat about education and learning but about seeing how far you can push others.

Even if your shoelaces were untied? Such hypocrisy.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If I was a teenager at that school and received a demerit over untied shoelaces, I'd spend my time trying to catch teachers and administrators with untied shoelaces instead of concentrating on my studies. Then I'd call them on it and demand $5 just to embarrass them and show them how the students feel. I was well behaved in school because I wasn't treated like shit. Crap like this would've enraged me and perhaps even turned me into a delinquent.

We get it. You would be a poor fit there. You dislike authority and rules, and are less focused on your ultimate goal of college, hopefully with a scholarship resulting from good HS grades, and subsequent success in the workplace, than with fighting rules.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Then you're not punishing him for an ACCIDENT.

To me an accident is the equivalent of I am following the rules of the road and someone ignores the red light, and hits me. i.e., I get injured, hurt, or some mess is created - through NO fault of my own. It is my personal belief that many adults use the term "accident" incorrectly. I would like you to explain to me how a glass of milk that has been poured for a child ends up spilled by an accident? Let us assume no pets, no siblings (obviously, if the pet or sibling caused it, that is not the fault of the child.) The child is at the table. The parent is at the stove cooking. And boom, the glass of milk falls. Divine intervention? The Devil? How does the milk spill "by accident".

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Didn't I just state I was well behaved in school? How could that be true if I had a problem following rules? What I have a problem with is punishment when rules were not deliberately broken. We're talking untied shoelaces and buttons popping open.....something that happens to everyone throughout the day. I hope a student at that school does exactly what I said I would do to show them how ridiculous they're being.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Then you're not punishing him for an ACCIDENT.

To me an accident is the equivalent of I am following the rules of the road and someone ignores the red light, and hits me. i.e., I get injured, hurt, or some mess is created - through NO fault of my own. It is my personal belief that many adults use the term "accident" incorrectly. I would like you to explain to me how a glass of milk that has been poured for a child ends up spilled by an accident? Let us assume no pets, no siblings (obviously, if the pet or sibling caused it, that is not the fault of the child.) The child is at the table. The parent is at the stove cooking. And boom, the glass of milk falls. Divine intervention? The Devil? How does the milk spill "by accident".

Maybe the real question to ask is , "If you know the kid is a klutz, why wasn't the milk in a sippy cup?"

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup--- fuckin Sie A.  Most kids have no idea what's on with the globe, couldnt point out venezuala,  couldn't balance a fuckin checkbook or do simple algebra, with our debt and our global concerns, it sort of is important to insure tidy shoelaces.

I don't tie mine on this pair of shoes, and this pair of shoes is older than most of you.
And my pocketbook larger.   Had I learned to tie these shoes (hey, I can tie a real bowtie and necktie) can you?  or is this a clipon place.....


Tommy got a gold star for tying his shoelaces, but was unable to solve Y = MX + B when given M, X, and B.
   

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
The first words you read when you log into the schools website:

"Why can’t every student go to an outstanding free school?"

Answer, because there is no free lunch. This 'free' school has educated 1300 students in it's existance per their own website. The school has existed for 13 years.. that's an average of 100 students per year.. that's per their own website. Front page even.

Per the article in the OP, the school collected $190,000 dollars last school year in these discipline fees.

That's an average of $1,900 per student which, the circular logic is.. 'we need to fine the students to pay for the program that allows us to fine the students.'

The good news.. the school allows payment plans for the 'poorest among us' as the founder of the school calls the students. How noble of them.

Sounds more like scam than school to me.. but there you go.

I could not find any independent verification that the schools graduating classes have a 95% college enrollment rate other than from the school itself but if you only have 100 students a year and you're only losing 5 of them, I guess that's something that look upon with pride.

I'm unimpressed.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
tj444, if you did well in school, then please consider the fact that not everyone there found school as easy as you did. Have a little empathy for those who were not as smart. You probably could have used more challenge, but there were probably many in the classroom who were sufficiently challenged, and a few who were struggling to stay afloat. Again, remember a normal curve. People's school abilities still fall into a normal curve. If you teach to the top 5% you will completely lose the bottom 95%. If you teach to the middle of the curve, the top of the curve will still be bored, and the bottom will still be struggling to keep up. It is difficult to completely individualize the educational experience such that everyone gets exactly what he/she needs. Other than having a system where you separate the kids according to ability, I'm not sure how else you could individualize. And there are many parents and educators who are against streaming, because it can actually really hurt kids who are on the bottom. I don't have a solution to this. Most parents I know whose kids are at the top of their class try to challenge them by having them do things outside of school. Most schools are not adequately equipped to challenge the top 5%.

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ORIGINAL: littlewonder

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

If I was a teenager at that school and received a demerit over untied shoelaces, I'd spend my time trying to catch teachers and administrators with untied shoelaces instead of concentrating on my studies. Then I'd call them on it and demand $5 just to embarrass them and show them how the students feel. I was well behaved in school because I wasn't treated like shit. Crap like this would've enraged me and perhaps even turned me into a delinquent.

To me this just makes you sound like an angry, bitter person and if I was a teacher and you were the student I'd simply put you in detention and after the third, suspend you because apparently you don't care squat about education and learning but about seeing how far you can push others.

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ORIGINAL: tj444

Their website is confusing.. there is a network of 10 schools.. not sure how they are getting those numbers.. So if the $190,000 are fines from all the schools.. I am not sure how many students total that is..

From a Press Release: (you would think that a school saying how good they were would make their website and PR clearer)
"The board unanimously decided to allow Noble to add four campuses to its existing network of 10 public charter high schools. Two of the high schools will open in 2012 with two others slated to open in 2013. The schools will each accept 800–1,000 students.
“This is a victory for all of Chicago. Opening an additional four campuses over the next two years will give nearly 4,000 more students access to a world class high school education that Noble can provide,” says Michael Milkie, Noble’s co-founder and CEO/Superintendent.
The locations and names of the two schools to open in the fall will be announced in the coming weeks. Noble’s next step will be to continue to raise the needed private funds to renovate school buildings. Noble is undertaking a $30 million capital campaign to support its next phase of expansion.
Noble’s goal is to double the number of students it serves by 2015 by growing to 12,000 students across 16 campuses;"

http://www.noblenetwork.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=ir4J775u7cE%3d&tabid=92

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

No it means I'm against treating kids like shit.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
Kids graduate from sippy cups at a pretty young age. Are you suggesting that kids as old as 10 should be drinking out of a sippy cup?? Or teenagers?? That really helps teach maturity and responsibility. I mean "child" as it is normally defined. Anyone under the age of 18. And children of all ages spill their milk. It is not just an issue for a 2-yr old. Children should be taught to clean up after their messes. If you don't believe that is correct, you can let your teenagers use a sippy cup, or you can clean up after them. You are free to do whatever you want in your own household. Myself, I will stick to the idea of personal responsibility. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway.

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ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Woz. Now he's an entrepreneur.