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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 7:48:09 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		Well, if you can object to the word feminiazi, I can object to it's masculine equivalent "men", which is typically used in pejorative sense at a certain point in conversations like this.

Two things, one is, I think the whole topic is highly ironic, given the recent repeated attempts to brand me as misogynistic and to "STFU" for merely advancing a scientific hypothesis - this doesn't cut both ways?

Second, we've already been through the 70's and 80's, and come out the other side where most can deal with a some occasional less than PC commentary, but still draw the line at actual physical contact, or coordinated activity when it comes to defining harassment.

In short this looks like backsliding to me, somebody calls you a feminazi, call them a male chauvinist pig, or otherwise feel free to offer them a piece of something other than your ass - it's a free country, it's not against the law, and it's the best we can do in a democracy.

Conversation is all we have, since as of the moment, there is no technology that can conveniently discern what someone is thinking, so to my mind, one is either conscious and respectful of the process of communication itself, or one is content to gibber, jump up and down, and fling feces.

"Redeye" - ever read S.I. Hayakawa?




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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 7:57:47 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		We are objecting to the misuse of a pejorative slur.

Feminazi is a term popularized by radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh. Feminazi is a portmanteau of the nouns feminist and Nazi. The term is used pejoratively by some U.S. conservatives to criticize feminists.

Misandry ( /mɪˈsændri/) is the hatred or dislike of men or boys. A recently coined word,[1] misandry was formed from Greek misos (μῖσος, "hatred") and anēr, andros (ἀνήρ, gen. ἀνδρός; "man"). Misandry is the antonym of philandry, the fondness towards men, love, or admiration of them. Misogyny is the term about women that is parallel to misandry, about men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

Huge difference.

LOL.. I actually read back over your post....

You believe the word "men" is used as a pejorative? Your not too subtle swipe at women, yet once again, by labeling them all as feminazis was cute... almost. It would be entertaining

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/26/2012 8:10:17 AM >

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 8:15:42 AM   
xssve


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quote:

The types of feminism that are about equality and freedom do not merit the term. To quote one of the main feminist organizations here, however: "Don't be absurd. Feminism isn't about freedom. You can't just do what you like. It has to be in line with the overall doctrine." I would apply the term to radical feminists that would impose their doctrine on women, taking on the role of oppressor to "correct" or "protect" these "poor, weak sisters of ours that haven't our strength and insight". That's likely not the only case I would use the term, but I would like to think I reserve it for brands of feminism that are both too radical for the bulk of women and indefensible from where I stand.
I don't use it at at all, not the least because it's a Limbaugh meme, and I knew a long time ago he was a big fat idiot - and as you yourself pointed out, it's falling into the escalating rhetoric trap to compare the equally delusional fantasies of a handful of equally strident feminist separatists (a more descriptive term, for me) to mass murderers.

That leaves the middle, which is mixed, and included those "poor, weak sisters".

It's a political truth that the hardcore right, which is associated with a philosophy of women as property - as proposed in a recent blog of Huffpost, and which strikes me as a cogent point of distinction w/regards to the subject of women's rights in general, comprises a roughly a third of the American electorate, and half of those are women.

Been reading Kevin Phillips American Theocracy, which ought to be required reading in history classes, and he makes the point that just as women have been at the forefront of the equality movement, they are also to be found at the forefront of the reaction formation to that, i.e., the anti-feminist movement.

In fact, instrumental in the original passage of Proposition 8 was the demographic of African American "Church Ladies" - a demographic one would imagine to be the most sensitive to sexual and cultural discrimination.

And as a disclaimer, there are women who enjoy being property who nevertheless stand up for their gender politically, and in any case, for the most part the gender issue is a political Red Herring, concealing the underlying debate about energy policy, an argument which happens to appeal to those who are politically less sophisticated, and think this is all about social issues.

“Capital must protect itself in every way… Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law applied by the central power of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd.” - JP Morgan

Divide and conquer.

In the end, the social issues are all constitutional issues, and a fair reading of the constitution does not support arbitrary discrimination.

Just who decides what does and does not constitute a fair reading of the constitution, brings us back round to politics.


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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 8:16:47 AM   
xssve


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quote:

You believe the word "men" is used as a pejorative? Your not too subtle swipe at women, yet once again, by labeling them all as feminazis was cute... almost. It would be entertaining
Maybe even misogynistic, huh? 

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 8:26:49 AM   
tazzygirl


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If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 8:47:18 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		There ya go.

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 8:55:59 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		There I go where? I merely agreed with you.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 9:13:29 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		But of course you do - the question however, is where to draw the lines: I favor hard lines where possible, which is not always, on the principle that Two wrongs don't make a right. You appear to be championing loose lines, an eye for an eye, and any eye will do - but either way, it cuts both ways, that's just how it works in praxis, which simply tends to perpetuate and institutionalize unjust acts committed against innocent bystanders, leading to more of the same - see the Middle East.


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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 9:35:52 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		You've had no credibility with me since proposing this viewpoint:

But, as a culture, we of course frown heavily on masturbation - so heavily in fact that it seems rape, or even doing your own daughter is more acceptable, more manly, much less visit a prostitute, etc.

Your bad reception for your "scientific hypothesis" may have been influenced by your posting history.








< Message edited by kalikshama -- 2/26/2012 9:49:14 AM >

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 10:31:36 AM   
crazyml


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I would prefer to not have the term used on collarme with the possible exception of unless it is referring to those attitudes above.


I completely agree.

quote:




While someday "feminazi" may evolve to "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women," we're not there yet.


Where did anyone posit "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women" as a definition of the term?

While I appreciate that, given Tazzy's dialogue with me on this thread, I may well be missing the fact that this thread is some fucked up Misunderstandathon in aid of some hitherto unnamed charity I don't think it should be necessary to clarify the fact that "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women" was never proposed as a definition of the term, but a description of the people that use it.



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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 10:40:46 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverBoat

There's no such thing as real feminazis? ... There are sure going to be some very disappointed subby's who've wanked-off to all those old women-in-german-prisonguard uniform porno flicks. You ought to leave them a little something, and not destroy their visions of Sandra-Klaus bearing sacks full of cuffs and whips for all the bad little boys (and bad little girls, too, just to be EEOK, etc). ... They saw it in the movies, so it has to be true somewhere, right? ...

==============================================

Seriously though, the word "feminazi" riles up some people, in no small part because it's intended to do exactly that when it's used a broadly perjorative insult. The people who use it that way realize exactly what they meant to do, and in an ironic twist, the people most obstreporously offended by it often fit its portmanteau meaning better than they'd prefer to admit to themselves or others.

Yeah, sure, pseudo-conservative rightwingnuts like Limbaugh etc aim to advance their own politics by impugning the entire women's-rights movement because that's associated with liberal-leftish politics. Some members of the women's-rights movements (most of whom have reasonable goals and methods, IMO), however, won't disavow the radical elements (much like some muslims won't disavow their violent sects), because it forwards their respective goals to some extent, and so we're left with the reality of the negative-connotation-"ist" labels, and extension of that into words like feminazi, islamonazi, etc.

Those women who take their rights seriously, even to the point of calling themselves "feminists" would serve their cause better by acknowledging that some of their number behave with sometimes counter-productive aggression, and policing their own camp instead of ranting when a derisive term is applied from outside. That would disarm the rightwingnutz use of the "feminazi" term.



And yet...
Have you ever heard of the "Overton window?" It is the idea that there is a certain set of options in a political environment that are perceived as reasonable by the general population. The window is defined by the existence of ideas that are so far outside the mainstream as to be obviously unreasonable. That said, if you say (or have patsy's say) something far to the left or right of what is currently unreasonable, you make the previously unreasonable sound more reasonable by comparison. This makes more ideas on your side of the spectrum sound reasonable, and will make the other side's ideas start to seem less reasonable.
For instance, if you want to eliminate abortion, go after birth control. Then folks start to see "Birth control legal, abortion illegal" as the compromise stance because it is in the middle of the three main "reasonable," points advocated.
Of course, if you can make abortion/birth control regulation sufficiently unpalatable (e.g. financially painful for men), then there is no longer reason to try to shift the overton window...

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 10:44:32 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I would prefer to not have the term used on collarme with the possible exception of unless it is referring to those attitudes above.


I completely agree.

quote:




While someday "feminazi" may evolve to "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women," we're not there yet.


Where did anyone posit "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women" as a definition of the term?

While I appreciate that, given Tazzy's dialogue with me on this thread, I may well be missing the fact that this thread is some fucked up Misunderstandathon in aid of some hitherto unnamed charity I don't think it should be necessary to clarify the fact that "a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women" was never proposed as a definition of the term, but a description of the people that use it.




What dialogue?  You have been lost since post 112.

Rush defined feminazi as anyone who was either a feminist or supported abortions.

I defined rape as sex between, and only between, any man or woman.

Both are stupid definitions.

If you are still confused, you are on your own.


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 10:46:16 AM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		Oops, I should have said:

While someday "feminazi" may evolve to "a term used by a pathetic little twat who is terrified of women," we're not there yet.

Next time, please correct me in time for me to edit

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 11:49:21 AM   
crazyml


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Status: offline 		Since your confusion clearly set in at post 110, I think I'm comfy.

Here's the thing... first you post this, in response to my reply to the OP..

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Rush already gave us the definition of one.. are we here redefining it now?


Now let me be frank with you, my first reaction was "That's a pretty fucking stupid thing to say, since the whole fucking point of the OP is to ask people how THEY define the term".

I then made that very point (without revealing the fact that I thought your response was a bit odd) in my reply.

Your next reply was...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

And the way Rush defined it, it includes anyone who is 1) a feminist, and/or 2) pro-choice


What the fuck has that go to do with the fact that the OP asked people to provide a definition?

So I replied, with a cunning little signpost to let you know that the chances are you and I agree... I pointed to my post which - In case you misunderstood it, was very disparaging of the term "Feminazi" and the people that use it.

Then you say
quote:


My point was that I can define rape as any sexual contact between a man and a woman... and only that.

Doesnt make it correct.


What the fuck has that got to do with anything I've said so far?

I then replied to that effect... and you produce this..


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yeah, I would imagine most men would be lost at this point.


Well, with the best will in the world... you're the one who is lost.

I suspect that you and I would agree very strongly on this topic, but you seem for some reason or other (and I hope you'll forgive me if I'm beginning to suspect either stupidity or poor reading comprehension), to be picking a fight.

Now, if I'm called on something, I try to have the integrity to hold my hand up... how about you?



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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 12:35:52 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Rush already gave us the definition of one.. are we here redefining it now?


Since he coined the phrase, its typically that person's to define.

quote:

What the fuck has that go to do with the fact that the OP asked people to provide a definition?


Because it already has a fucking definition.  Shall we redefine nazi as well?  For fuck sake, why stop there.  lets redefine male and female while we are at it,  abortion, march, activist... there are a whole slew of words assiciated with feminazi that we can redefine.  .

quote:

What the fuck has that got to do with anything I've said so far?

I then replied to that effect... and you produce this..



Back to redefining things that already have a definition.

quote:

Well, with the best will in the world... you're the one who is lost.


On sweety, I am on firm ground and I have understood everything posted.  Sadly, you seem to be the one with all the questions.

quote:

I suspect that you and I would agree very strongly on this topic, but you seem for some reason or other (and I hope you'll forgive me if I'm beginning to suspect either stupidity or poor reading comprehension), to be picking a fight.

Now, if I'm called on something, I try to have the integrity to hold my hand up... how about you?


I always do, when I am wrong.  In this case, my story has not changed.  People are trying to redefine a word that has been defined and quite narrowly with the intention to ridicule and belittle two groups of people, mostly consisting of women.

I always admit when I am wrong.  How about you?


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 1:55:34 PM   
PeonForHer


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Right, that's enough discussion about an insulting term dreamt up by a fanatical right wing tosser who only coined the term in order to articulate the prejudices of himself and his cretinous fans. The man's an idiot. Let's move on.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 2/26/2012 1:57:07 PM >

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 2:08:42 PM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Right, that's enough discussion about an insulting term dreamt up by a fanatical right wing tosser who only coined the term in order to articulate the prejudices of himself and his cretinous fans. The man's an idiot. Let's move on.


Agreed. We should just all treat anyone stupid enough to use it non-ironically, as the poor, misguided retards they are.

More pity than disgust.

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 2:20:19 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Right, that's enough discussion about an insulting term dreamt up by a fanatical right wing tosser who only coined the term in order to articulate the prejudices of himself and his cretinous fans. The man's an idiot. Let's move on.


Agreed. We should just all treat anyone stupid enough to use it non-ironically, as the poor, misguided retards they are.

More pity than disgust.


Excellent.

With that, I think we should move on to discussing the term "tedious, pointless right wing turd".

Everyone put their most thoughtful caps on for this question, please. It is of the utmost seriousness and gravity. Invoke whatever historical or philosophical mastications you feel to be most appropriate, the better properly to arrive at a conclusion about this fucking great useless berk and his nasty, stupid opinions.




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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 6:30:43 PM   
xssve


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Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

You've had no credibility with me since proposing this viewpoint:

But, as a culture, we of course frown heavily on masturbation - so heavily in fact that it seems rape, or even doing your own daughter is more acceptable, more manly, much less visit a prostitute, etc.

Your bad reception for your "scientific hypothesis" may have been influenced by your posting history.

That isn't my viewpoint, don't shoot the messenger, talk to the fucking pope - little boys are fair game too apparently.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/26/2012 6:31:31 PM >

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RE: Feminazis and Godwin's Law - 2/26/2012 6:43:50 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		The Pope is against contraception, yet 98% of Catholics have used it, creating a culture of contraception despite the Church's teachings. Additionally, only 22% of the US is Catholic, so what is this "culture" of which you speak?

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