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How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brothers... - 2/26/2012 9:16:01 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."


http://www.addictinginfo.org/


I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.


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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:21:10 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Got more forgeries to share today, Owner59, or is this just the usual hacktivist spin and commie propaganda?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:21:12 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Obama has owned the cost of any/all forms of energy ever since he proclaimed during the 2008 election cycle that according to his economic policies the cost of energy will necessarily skyrocket.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:23:55 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Well the right is currently pinning their hopes on rising gas prices driving us back into recession.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:24:53 AM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
Status: offline 		How would banning futures trading lower oil prices?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:29:27 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Where did it say that?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:29:57 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."


http://www.addictinginfo.org/


I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.


Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 9:36:25 AM   
provfivetine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...


Exactly. Banning oil futures in the US would be patently ridiculous, and would cause even wilder price swings; these bets would just be shifted to the Commodity Exchange in London. Unified markets allow spontaneous calculation, and oil prices would be much more difficult to ascertain if a large country banned futures trading. Even if all countries banned futures trading, then speculation would show up on eBay or something.

Plus speculators also can drive prices down. I'm guessing the OP wouldn't mind the short-sellers in the oil futures biz.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 10:54:02 AM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		There is another possible answer, and it would be useful for a lot of problems with the market...
A financial transaction tax. Something tiny, perhaps .2% (yes, $2 per $1000) or even less, on all transactions.
For long term investors, and for people trying to support/finance businesses, it wouldn't even be noticeable (would fade into the background of broker fees). But day traders, folks who manipulate markets, and speculators would pay for the uncertainties they add to the market. This would discourage them, and help stabilize markets which makes investments safer for everyone...
Revenue from the tax would be low, but could finance improvements to SEC oversight, further improving investor confidence in the safety of the capital markets.
It is a win-win for everyone but the brokerage houses that currently skim profits off their customers and the speculators...

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 11:32:41 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."


http://www.addictinginfo.org/


I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.


Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...

It's really simple, no one should be able to buy a futures contract, in anything, without the ability to receive delivery of at least one full contract of that commodity.

Keep in mind that 1 contract is 1000 barrels or 42,000 gallons of oil. If you can't take delivery and store that you shouldn't be buying oil futures at all. The commodity market was not setup for speculators but to allow actual producers and actual consumers of the commodities to have more control of their finances and to guarantee the consumers a steady supply without reliance on relationships with individual producers.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 11:46:30 AM   
provfivetine


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Joined: 2/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's really simple, no one should be able to buy a futures contract, in anything, without the ability to receive delivery of at least one full contract of that commodity.


How would this scenario work with shorts?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 1:00:37 PM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's really simple, no one should be able to buy a futures contract, in anything, without the ability to receive delivery of at least one full contract of that commodity.


How would this scenario work with shorts?

You would have to be able to deliver the quantity you were shorting...
Just like short selling a stock means you agree to deliver the stock you are shorting. Just cause folks try to skirt the rules, doesn't mean they don't count.
I remember a story about a bunch of folks who short-sold the Burlington railroad when two uber-rich folks were trying to buy a majority of the stock in the company. Think it was Morgan and Carnegie, but I donno. Anyway, once both Morgan and Carnegie had purchased enough stock to own more than 50% of the company, they went and asked for delivery. All the folks who sold short and didn't have the shares panicked, and started selling everything else they had to try to buy shares still on the market.
This all happened in 1929... biggest stock market crash by percentage in history and arguably started the great depression.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 2:08:35 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's really simple, no one should be able to buy a futures contract, in anything, without the ability to receive delivery of at least one full contract of that commodity.


How would this scenario work with shorts?

Why should short selling even be allowed on the commodity markets?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 2:57:13 PM   
provfivetine


Posts: 410
Joined: 2/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
You would have to be able to deliver the quantity you were shorting...


Physical delivery of futures rarely (if ever) takes place. Following through on this mandate would create chaos in the markets (it would also outsource all shorting out of the US and into ICE). Essentially, this would mean that instead of paying only the initial margin, you'd already have to possess the collateral in its entirety. This would make it near impossible for the average person to short and would concentrate short selling into the hands of the ultra wealthy. Forcing such a rule would remove a boatload of liquidity from the markets. Oil prices would be even more volatile.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 3:36:30 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
You would have to be able to deliver the quantity you were shorting...


Physical delivery of futures rarely (if ever) takes place. Following through on this mandate would create chaos in the markets (it would also outsource all shorting out of the US and into ICE). Essentially, this would mean that instead of paying only the initial margin, you'd already have to possess the collateral in its entirety. This would make it near impossible for the average person to short and would concentrate short selling into the hands of the ultra wealthy. Forcing such a rule would remove a boatload of liquidity from the markets. Oil prices would be even more volatile.

Lets go further and say that it would be logistically impossible in many instances.
Not to mention that if that we added this stipulation this into every contact, each contractor would, theoretically, have to deliver said product...which would cause prices to skyrocket

edited for coherency

< Message edited by Kana -- 2/26/2012 3:38:04 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 3:51:33 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
You would have to be able to deliver the quantity you were shorting...


Physical delivery of futures rarely (if ever) takes place.

Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 3:57:04 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		Meh... it doesnt matter if gas is 5 bucks a gallon or 4 or 3 or whatever.. you are still paying big oil your hard earned bucks, month after month, year after year.. get rid of them entirely..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62FzVuSF58&feature=related

I have seen toyota trucks converted that have solar on the roof, which charges the vehicle thru the day so you get a longer distance between charges..

What i find interesting is that mechanically inclined folks are able to convert their vehicles satisfactorily but the big car manufacturers cant seem to put anything good and reasonably priced out thats electric.. They are supposed to have the best brains working for em..

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 3:57:24 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Even if all countries banned futures trading, then speculation would show up on eBay or something.



Oil tanker for sale, currently floating off the Gulf Coast........... Bids from £60 (I`m using proper money) Bidding ends 6 pm Friday.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:07:46 PM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:10:48 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

Meh... it doesnt matter if gas is 5 bucks a gallon or 4 or 3 or whatever.. you are still paying big oil your hard earned bucks, month after month, year after year.. get rid of them entirely..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62FzVuSF58&feature=related

I have seen toyota trucks converted that have solar on the roof, which charges the vehicle thru the day so you get a longer distance between charges..

What i find interesting is that mechanically inclined folks are able to convert their vehicles satisfactorily but the big car manufacturers cant seem to put anything good and reasonably priced out thats electric.. They are supposed to have the best brains working for em..


Ever compare the stockholders of the big car companies to the stockholders of the big oil companies? The car companies are owned by pretty much the same folks. Those stockholders get 10 times as much money from their shares of oil companies as from car companies though. Wonder why they still have the car company stocks???

In other news, not only is much of what we spend on gas going to folks that are hostile to the United States (middle east, Russia, Chavez), but it is also a major component in our trade imbalance. If we had the sort of gas taxes the French (cheese eating surrender monkeys that they are) have, we wouldn't need to get involved in the middle east... Of course, it would hurt the economy of those poor friendly monarchies...

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