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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 8:35:14 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
Have yourself a seat, this will come as a big shock to you ...

Warren Buffett was worth many billions before this administration came to office. Even before Clinton came to office.

lol So what? The fact that he has money is the reason he has connections now.. if he was Joe Blow no one in the White House would give him the time of day.. ya gotta have bucks to influence politicians..

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 8:37:47 PM   
Edwynn


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People come to him, sweetheart, he has no need for white house connections, the point that went right over your head there.

Politicians always seek people with money.

People that make money off of taxpayers seek the white house connections.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 8:40:49 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 8:39:59 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
People come to him, sweetheart, he has no need for whitehouse connections, the point that went right over your head there.

You are the one that has it wrong..
http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/09/warren-buffett-baptist-and-bootlegger/singlepage


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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 8:49:53 PM   
Edwynn


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I already read that, and it's from yet another self-proclaimed 'Libertarian' rag that is just another proto-tea party "no taxes" spouting clueless bunch, who utterly despise people who commit the worst sin of all, being highly successful by their own efforts and talent, and voting Democrat. By your other contributions here anyone can see that you're deeply ensconced in that group.

They are grasping at straws the whole article through. The alleged wrongdoings they get their shorts into a knot over are not even 2% of what others do in this or other administrations. How many tens of thousands are dead from his actions, how many trillions of our national debt did he cause?

When you read political rags, the info is suspect to begin with. I read that magazine years ago and finally got tired of the complete and utter horse hockey they threw about.  No wonder you're so ill informed.

< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 9:12:29 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 9:00:44 PM   
Edwynn


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It's only that crowd who are so hyper-obsessed by Buffet and Soros, for that unforgivable sin mentioned in the previous post, so much so that they need to completely fabricate the notion that liberals 'adore them' or 'think they can walk on water,' etc. The average liberal (which I am not) doesn't give a flip about them.


You people need to get a freakin' life.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 9:02:47 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 9:25:16 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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Status: offline 		Well, I'm a liberal and I admire the Oracle of Omaha, but not for his politics...
I mean, lets face it, if you want to make money, he's the guy to study.
And I do think that he is trying to secure his financial future with his political actions.
That said, with him it is less likely that he is seeking some short term benefit for one company, and more likely that he is seeking long term security for his investments.
In other words, he is only in politics cause he sees folks doing things that he thinks threaten his wealth.
A lot of rich folks are following his lead, cause folks with money who know what to do with it think he may have a point.
Now a lot of oil barons think the US is in FINE shape, just peachy...
But Buffett's investments are in a lot of companies that require a strong middle class to stay profitable. His investments go up and down with the nation, unlike some other rich folks.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 9:34:55 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
It's only that crowd who are so hyper-obsessed by Buffet and Soros, for that unforgivable sin mentioned in the previous post, so much so that they need to completely fabricate the notion that liberals 'adore them' or 'think they can walk on water,' etc. The average liberal (which I am not) doesn't give a flip about them.

You people need to get a freakin' life.

lol I am not a Republican, not an American so I cant vote so how in the world can i be in "that group"? Anytime someone doesnt agree with you they are automatically one of "that group". You are the one that needs to get a life... I can think on my own and come to my own conclusions.. I dont buy Buffetts act, I dislike his business practices. I have seen copies of his correspondence to the White House, they are on the web. He owns a big chunk of Wells Fargo, Wells Fargo touts that they do business "the Buffett way", they are the worst friggin bank in the US (I know this from my own experience with the bastards). They are one of the banksters, they got bailed out, they screwed people that did nothing wrong.. Buffett puts on a good act and people have lapped it up. I just dont happen to be one of them..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/26/us-usa-housing-mortgage-reincarnation-idUSTRE80P0SJ20120126


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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 9:56:09 PM   
Edwynn


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I didn't say you were a Republican. I said you are in the group that is obsessed with Buffet. And not all Republicans are in that group, just the more clueless ones.

I would say that using an article concerning him as your sig is borderline obsession, I don't think I'm alone in recognizing that. Also, the large amount of time you obviously spend on all matters Buffet in purpose to pointing out his flaws, while ignoring others who do much worse than merely take advantage of circumstances, while ignoring those who do much greater harm to society. Apparently someone who you despise for whatever reason writing a couple letters to the white house bothers you more than those who were actually in the white house (VP and the Cabinet) and directed the country to financial ruin and foreign relations disasters. 

Plenty of other rich folks bought up bank stocks on the cheap, but you zero in on this one person.

But it's not an obsession, not at all, you say. You can carry on with the 'protest too loudly' thing if you wish, if you want to leave people with no doubt.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 10:02:05 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 10:35:24 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
I didn't say you were a Republican. I said you are in the group that is obsessed with Buffet. And not all Republicans are in that group, just the more clueless ones.

I would say that using an article concerning him as your sig is borderline obsession, I don't think I'm alone in recognizing that. Also, the large amount of time you obviously spend on all matters Buffet in purpose to pointing out his flaws, while ignoring others who do much worse than merely take advantage of circumstances, while ignoring those who do much greater harm to society. Apparently someone who you despise for whatever reason writing a couple letters to the white house bothers you more than those who were actually in the white house (VP and the Cabinet) and directed the country to financial ruin and foreign relations disasters. 

Plenty of other rich folks bought up bank stocks on the cheap, but you zero in on this one person.

But it's not an obsession, not at all, you say. You can carry on with the 'protest too loudly' thing if you wish, if you want to leave people with no doubt.

naw, I dont obsess with him, I was just unfortunate to have a bank account at wells fargo, that was hell enough on me, thank gawd i didnt have a freakin mortgage with them! Its not about him buying bank stocks on the cheap, its about the sleazy bank he owns a big interest in & that he influences..

I was just replying to Softbonds post to me about him. Blame Softbonds!! he was the one that started this! lol

I have something on my sig about Obama too, does that mean i obsess about Obama? geeze.... Anyone in business or interested in business reads about Buffett. So they are obsessed too? I dont ignore others that are worse, I just dont happen to know all of them or much about them since i have only been here in the US for a short time.. it would be like you trying to talk about similar rich people in Canada...

< Message edited by tj444 -- 2/27/2012 10:37:53 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 11:02:31 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



I didn't say you were a Republican. I said you are in the group that is obsessed with Buffet. And not all Republicans are in that group, just the more clueless ones.

I would say that using an article concerning him as your sig is borderline obsession, I don't think I'm alone in recognizing that. Also, the large amount of time you obviously spend on all matters Buffet in purpose to pointing out his flaws, while ignoring others who do much worse than merely take advantage of circumstances, while ignoring those who do much greater harm to society. Apparently someone who you despise for whatever reason writing a couple letters to the white house bothers you more than those who were actually in the white house (VP and the Cabinet) and directed the country to financial ruin and foreign relations disasters. 

Plenty of other rich folks bought up bank stocks on the cheap, but you zero in on this one person.

But it's not an obsession, not at all, you say. You can carry on with the 'protest too loudly' thing if you wish, if you want to leave people with no doubt.

The fact of the matter is that he is no different than most any other capitalist, about as connected as they are rich. However, look at Romney's variety of capitalism.

Vulture capitalist is I think the best term. It is very possible and likely that of the companies Bain capital took on, created a net loss of jobs and a net reduction in profits per employee despite it.

If I am not mistaken, Bain Capital was buying companies before ERISA (Employee Retirement Income Security Act) allowing [it] to then 'steal' the employee retirement portfolio. And think to even suggest that these people are job creators...what bullshit ?

To my knowledge Buffet's actions are in the news only because he is rich, via a holding co., (no real business or product is historically associated with Buffet) in the public eye because of it and does little different than most plutocrats.

Bain Capital however was a private profiteer, turnover sharks, not turn around specialists and likely were a net loss to the economy, the employees and society.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 11:07:04 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
naw, I dont obsess with him, I was just unfortunate to have a bank account at wells fargo,  ... its about the sleazy bank he owns a big interest in & that he influences..



You haven't been in the country long enough to know about those who have done much greater harm, but long enough to be aware of them, by that statement, yet you focus on this one person.

Yes, those who read about investing are well aware of him, that is quite different than spending inordinate amounts of time in pursuit of a witch hunt. All because he bought some stock in the bank you used, so you claim. Again, plenty of other rich investors bought stock in the same bank. How do you know how much he influences what they do, even at all? Berkshire Hathaway owns interests in well over 50 companies, much more than that if we count the numerous autonomous subsidiaries. It's an actively managed investment company, not  one who actively manages every company it has a stake in.

You are groping here.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 11:12:54 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 11:19:46 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
You haven't been in the country long enough to know about those who have done much greater harm, but long enough to be aware of them, by that statement, yet you focus on this one person.

Yes, those who read about investing are well aware of him, that is quite different than spending inordinate amounts of time in pursuit of a witch hunt. All because he bought some stock in the bank you used. Again, plenty of other rich investors bought stock in the same bank. How do you know how much he influences what they do, even at all? Berkshire Hathaway owns interests in well over 50 companies, much more than that if we count the numerous autonomous subsidiaries. It's an actively managed investment company, not  one who actively manages every company it has a stake in.

You are groping here.

lol I have spent hardly any time reading about Buffet, its not a witch hunt.. i run across articles about him cuz hes in the friggin news.. Yes, I know he owns lots of businesses, but the managers that he manages are supposed to run their company or division the way he wants them to. It all reflects back on to him. With Wells Fargo he failed miserably...

You believe what you want to about him, what i believe about him should be irrelevant to you..

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 11:20:08 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
To my knowledge Buffet's actions are in the news only because he is rich, via a holding co., (no real business or product is historically associated with Buffet) in the public eye because of it and does little different than most plutocrats.




Quite correct, and people on the business channels talk him up as a big star the same way they do over a big name athlete in sports, for the same reason.


The point somebody else here keeps missing is that most people who are into investing look up to him for the success of his company, while the crowd that despises him and absolutely obsess over him hate him because he did all that and has the temerity to vote Democrat.


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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/27/2012 11:35:07 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

lol I have spent hardly any time reading about Buffet, its not a witch hunt.. i run across articles about him cuz hes in the friggin news.. Yes, I know he owns lots of businesses, but the managers that he manages are supposed to run their company or division the way he wants them to. It all reflects back on to him. With Wells Fargo he failed miserably...

You believe what you want to about him, what i believe about him should be irrelevant to you..


I don't 'believe' a damn thing about him. I know whatever I know or don't about him, that's it. I know enough to know that he does not 'manage the managers,' again, that being impossible with all his company holds interests in.

You read all the negative things about him which come from the negative publications you read. OK then, you don't obsess over him and are not on a witch hunt, you just read the magazines that are.

Got it.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 2/27/2012 11:37:21 PM >

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/28/2012 6:31:18 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Are there other futures markets that hedgers and speculators would want to use though?
Europe has markets with stronger regulations, and probably either already have transaction taxes or will follow the US lead. So you are talking about what, the Iranian exchange?
How much of your money will you be investing in an Iranian regulated exchange? One where you send your money to Iran, and they hold it for you?
Or did you have a different nation in mind?
Laws cost money, and you get what you pay for. Warren Buffett is smart enough to want to buy some safety and security for the rich...

What happened with MF Global in the US would not have happened in Europe.. I havent heard the results of where the millions in client money ended up disappearing to.. so you think the US is that safe?

There is a new commodities exchange in Dubai, there is one in Singapore (Singapore is considered a tax haven),.. London (IPE),.. etc..
I posted about the Dubai exchange (DME) on another thread a while ago.. when someone was bitching about speculators.. I pointed out that the financial corps had invested in the DME and that I suspected that one reason they did was that if the US tried to regulate or tax them, then it was easy for them to switch operations away from the US and to Dubai.. In other words, the big financial corps are 10 steps ahead of the US govt..

"in 2008 that notably changed the DME’s shareholding structure; several trading firms and international financial institutions, namely Concord Energy, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Shell and Vitol, became shareholders of the DME"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Mercantile_Exchange

Btw, I dont think much of Warren Buffet.. he profits very nicely from his connections in the White House.. just like the rest of em..

Dubai has a market in Oman oil and that is it. So let the big financial scumbags go over there and speculate on it. Prices in the US for a whole range of things will go down or at least stabilize.

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/28/2012 8:03:27 AM   
SoftBonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
I didn't say you were a Republican. I said you are in the group that is obsessed with Buffet. And not all Republicans are in that group, just the more clueless ones.

I would say that using an article concerning him as your sig is borderline obsession, I don't think I'm alone in recognizing that. Also, the large amount of time you obviously spend on all matters Buffet in purpose to pointing out his flaws, while ignoring others who do much worse than merely take advantage of circumstances, while ignoring those who do much greater harm to society. Apparently someone who you despise for whatever reason writing a couple letters to the white house bothers you more than those who were actually in the white house (VP and the Cabinet) and directed the country to financial ruin and foreign relations disasters. 

Plenty of other rich folks bought up bank stocks on the cheap, but you zero in on this one person.

But it's not an obsession, not at all, you say. You can carry on with the 'protest too loudly' thing if you wish, if you want to leave people with no doubt.

naw, I dont obsess with him, I was just unfortunate to have a bank account at wells fargo, that was hell enough on me, thank gawd i didnt have a freakin mortgage with them! Its not about him buying bank stocks on the cheap, its about the sleazy bank he owns a big interest in & that he influences..

Well, I too was unfortunate enough to have a bank account with wells fargo, and a mortgage with them. Actually, I didn't make either agreement, Wells Fargo bought a local bank I'd been doing business with. By the time I'd dealt with them for 2 years, I switched. Unfortunatly, to Bank of America. Finally I discovered Credit Unions! Have never even thought about going back. Better service, lower fees, and less silliness.
I just wish the banks hadn't gotten a law passed that credit unions had to have strictly limited membership classes (only one region or company)... I guess they couldn't take the competition?
Anyway, there is a simple solution to the TBTF banks. Don't use them! If everyone who objected to the bailouts took their money out of the banks that are too big to fail, they would no longer be nearly as big!
As for Buffett owning stock in Wells Fargo, wonder how long that was the case. Wells Fargo was a dick bank 10 years ago, and corporate cultures are hard to change...

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/28/2012 12:46:31 PM   
GrandPoobah


Posts: 120
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Status: offline 		Regarding the questions related to speculation in oil and its' affect on the price, here's a story today that explains the situation as of the moment:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/opinion/sanders-gas-speculation/index.html?hpt=hp_c1


Supply: Higher than normal Demand: Much lower than normal. Price: Rising quickly Reason: GREED!

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/28/2012 8:47:48 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/

I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.



Seriously....come on.....you're kidding....right?

This can't be a conversation for adults......really?

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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/28/2012 9:12:50 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:


Ah, the joys of being a Libertarian, I can piss off both sides of the issue simply by speaking the Truth.




The truth is that the Libertarian mantra of 'free markets' is what begot the financial deregulation that begot his whole mess.






In the Eastern Bloc, it was "Communism would solve everything if only we implemented it perfectly." In the Ayn Rand world, it's "the free market would solve everything if we only implemented it perfectly." Riiiiight.



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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/29/2012 12:50:40 AM   
GrandPoobah


Posts: 120
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."

http://www.addictinginfo.org/

I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.



Seriously....come on.....you're kidding....right?

This can't be a conversation for adults......really?



Skipping the obvious excess in "throw some billionaires in jail" there is an element of truth in the comment.

We don't allow speculation in some things...such as electricity, because it is a regulated industry, primarily to ensure that the product is available to everyone. If we regulated oil on the same basis, using something akin to a Public Utilities Commission, the price would immediately drop. Of course, two other things would happen. The GOP would complain that it's too much government regulation. They would also complain that the government is interfering in the free market.

I guess the "truth" of either of those arguments is in the eye of the beholder, but it certainly true that the financial system seems to require regulation, and I dread the thought of more things like Love Cana, the gulf oil spills,l and Three Mile Island if the government just left it up to business to regulate itself. Self-regulation doesn't work for people who look only at Greed.

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