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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:27:11 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:36:16 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

How would banning futures trading lower oil prices?

Because it represents the ability to 'buy' oil with no intention of using it only to sell (the contract) at a higher price.

It's what Adams warned us about just before his death. Turning paper into money (futures contracts) will leave us slave to the speculators and he was absolutely correct.

Cannot ban this in a free country, so the only thing govt. could do is the right thing to do...tax it 50%. (will NEVER happen in greedy America)

Investors would turn to real investments in building something or doing something rather than just buying something.

Most of the growth in corporate profits are of this financial nature now rather than building or doing something...that takes real work.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/26/2012 5:28:34 PM >

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:41:25 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."


http://www.addictinginfo.org/


I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.


Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...

Off-shore it is restricted and taxed...that's why. The EU is currently debating more restrictions as they understand that society is to be served by the economy, not just greedy, short-term investors as in America.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:45:54 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...


Exactly. Banning oil futures in the US would be patently ridiculous, and would cause even wilder price swings; these bets would just be shifted to the Commodity Exchange in London. Unified markets allow spontaneous calculation, and oil prices would be much more difficult to ascertain if a large country banned futures trading. Even if all countries banned futures trading, then speculation would show up on eBay or something.

Plus speculators also can drive prices down. I'm guessing the OP wouldn't mind the short-sellers in the oil futures biz.

Hardly, the futures do not absolutely dictate the ultimate price in the real market as opposed to the speculative markets.

Some refineries cannot handle the demand so oil sits and waits to be refined. The price drops, often precipitously. Futures price $120/bbl. recently, price for sweet crude at the Oklahoma refinery...$96/bbl.

As for wilder price swings...hardly, there would be no futures price. EVERY price as some are now despite the speculation, is and would be between buyer and seller, not on some 'big board.' Demand created by this paper-speculation would cease, which is a false demand...would go WAY down and prices would fall precipitously.

Short-selling is conveniently now regulated here.

In February 2010 the Commission adopted a new short sale price test restriction, which is commonly referred to as the “alternative uptick rule.” The alternative uptick rule is designed to restrict short selling from further driving down the price of a stock that has dropped more than 10 percent in one day compared to the closing price on the previous day. SEC

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/26/2012 4:53:27 PM >

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 4:57:45 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.


Oh come on, surely you don't think that the billions of dollars Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth funds invest in oil futures drive those prices up??? Why would Saudi Arabia have any interest in higher oil prices. I am sure all their activity in oil futures is to reduce the price of oil, not to artificially inflate it.

Does anyone remember the name of that investor who made the bid that drove oil over $100 the first time? All I remember is that he was a speculator and sold it shortly afterwards (at a profit). Anyway, at least we know he wasn't Saudi.

In other news, all the folks who think that lots of people can buy something, sell it later at a profit, and drive down the price of that thing, I suggest you buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 5:02:05 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
You would have to be able to deliver the quantity you were shorting...


Physical delivery of futures rarely (if ever) takes place. Following through on this mandate would create chaos in the markets (it would also outsource all shorting out of the US and into ICE). Essentially, this would mean that instead of paying only the initial margin, you'd already have to possess the collateral in its entirety. This would make it near impossible for the average person to short and would concentrate short selling into the hands of the ultra wealthy. Forcing such a rule would remove a boatload of liquidity from the markets. Oil prices would be even more volatile.

Lets go further and say that it would be logistically impossible in many instances.
Not to mention that if that we added this stipulation this into every contact, each contractor would, theoretically, have to deliver said product...which would cause prices to skyrocket

edited for coherency

Why the obsession over liquidity ? There is no shortage of 'liquidity' in any market and investment in futures does not effect liquidity at all. It is the same as a stock or any other piece of paper. When the last time oil went up, futures in oil went from $40 billion invested in paper to $280 billion in about 6-7 months. That good ole herd mentality speculators depend upon.

Neither that kind of liquidity was needed or provided, that was cash between two investors most of which was profits for say Govt.-Sachs ($10 billion in 2008) or protection by the oil companies that just as soon NOT have to use their capital to keep up with the speculators.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 5:05:12 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

"Why are gas prices surging to levels unseen since the 2008 oil spike while the oil companies reporting record profits? Much of the problem is actually created by Wall Street traders here in the USA who gamble on oil prices and powerful multinational companies that manipulate the supply and demand by stockpiling oil when..."


http://www.addictinginfo.org/


I know another way to bring down prices.

Make speculating/manipulating/gouging illegal and throw some billionaires in jail.

Use the war powers act the way Truman did during WWII and throw some rich people in jail and watch the energy market stabilize and settle on what it`s really worth rather than what a bunch of crooks drive it up to be.


Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...

It's really simple, no one should be able to buy a futures contract, in anything, without the ability to receive delivery of at least one full contract of that commodity.

Keep in mind that 1 contract is 1000 barrels or 42,000 gallons of oil. If you can't take delivery and store that you shouldn't be buying oil futures at all. The commodity market was not setup for speculators but to allow actual producers and actual consumers of the commodities to have more control of their finances and to guarantee the consumers a steady supply without reliance on relationships with individual producers.

I disagree. The paper markets were set up quite purposefully to seek all of the green paper in your pocket becomes their paper in exchange for their stocks, bonds and futures.

What you suggest would never, ever happen as that would destroy the very essence of capitalism...the speculation in paper and turning their paper into your money.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 5:19:22 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

...again there is no liquidity problem. Why this obsession. Oil companies just s soon NOT deal with these speculators because of all of the cash they have to use to protect themselves. If any market in the world is NOT in need of liquidity...it is oil.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 5:24:57 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.


In other news, all the folks who think that lots of people can buy something, sell it later at a profit, and drive down the price of that thing, I suggest you buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

I have yet to read that. I buy stocks and sell at a profit. Then if it is going down or I think so...I short it then. Shorting, you are not talking about anybody selling what they own outright. That's already been sold.

Going (selling) short is when you think the price is going down and what you sell...is borrowed first.

As for the perversion of markets, where have you been ? This has been going on ever since we turned commodities (just as stocks)...into paper.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/26/2012 5:31:09 PM >

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 5:39:09 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.


In other news, all the folks who think that lots of people can buy something, sell it later at a profit, and drive down the price of that thing, I suggest you buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

I have yet to read that. I buy stocks and sell at a profit. Then if it is going down or I think so...I short it then. Shorting, you are not talking about anybody selling what they own outright. That's already been sold.

Going (selling) short is when you think the price is going down and what you sell...is borrowed first.

As for the perversion of markets, where have you been ? This has been going on ever since we turned commodities (just as stocks)...into paper.


MrRodgers, I don't think you read my entire point. I was saying that, if you have an item (say a stock or commodity) and you buy it for a price, and then sell it for a higher price, you do not, by doing so, lower the price of the item.
I was not saying that you couldn't make money in the stock market. I wasn't even saying you can't make money in the commodities market. I was saying that if someone is pulling profits out of the commodities market, it is, by simple math, raising the price of those commodities.
The money doesn't come from the magic free market fairy. It comes from higher prices for the end buyer, or lower prices to the seller, or some combination of the two.
Willing to display this with algebraic formulas if anyone doubts it...

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 6:28:11 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

Even if all countries banned futures trading, then speculation would show up on eBay or something.



Oil tanker for sale, currently floating off the Gulf Coast........... Bids from £60 (I`m using proper money) Bidding ends 6 pm Friday.
Oil is traded in dollars buddy, talk like that will get you invaded...


_____________________________

Walking nightmare...

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 6:29:17 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.


In other news, all the folks who think that lots of people can buy something, sell it later at a profit, and drive down the price of that thing, I suggest you buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

I have yet to read that. I buy stocks and sell at a profit. Then if it is going down or I think so...I short it then. Shorting, you are not talking about anybody selling what they own outright. That's already been sold.

Going (selling) short is when you think the price is going down and what you sell...is borrowed first.

As for the perversion of markets, where have you been ? This has been going on ever since we turned commodities (just as stocks)...into paper.


MrRodgers, I don't think you read my entire point. I was saying that, if you have an item (say a stock or commodity) and you buy it for a price, and then sell it for a higher price, you do not, by doing so, lower the price of the item.
I was not saying that you couldn't make money in the stock market. I wasn't even saying you can't make money in the commodities market. I was saying that if someone is pulling profits out of the commodities market, it is, by simple math, raising the price of those commodities.
The money doesn't come from the magic free market fairy. It comes from higher prices for the end buyer, or lower prices to the seller, or some combination of the two.
Willing to display this with algebraic formulas if anyone doubts it...

You are correct of course in the general sense. What happens is that there is 'profit-taking' which is when enough sell the price stops going up. Enough and it comes down. Then add in any bad news and the shorts step in...that's when it falls precipitously because if now enough go short the same influences that effect a stock or commodity when they go up...shit starts down, fast.

As I am sure you know, there are investors that only go short. They can really send a stock down quick. That's why the new restrictions, plus nobody likes falling prices.

(in reply to SoftBonds)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 7:42:16 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Bullshit. Every contract is delivered when it matures. That is the whole and only point of the commodity markets.

Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

Your opinion is wrong.

A futures contract is just that, a contract to deliver good X at time Y. That people with no business in the markets have gotten involved and perverted the entire operation is the reason we pay so much for food, look into the goings on in wheat futures the last 10 years, and gas.

You can either take delivery or you can close out your contract before the delivery date and the contract comes to an end. As I said, I traded futures and never took delivery of the underlying commodity. If it were not for businesses being able to hedge commodities, currencies, etc in the futures market then the cost to the consumer would fluctuate too much. It is used by them to keep their costs more constant and predictable. The first futures market started in the early 1700s in Japan. Its not going away no matter how much people bitch about it. Food commodities were never my thing, too volatile imo. When i was a kid growing up on the farm, every morning my father would listen on the radio to the commodity prices to judge when the best time to sell his steers, hogs, wheat, etc was... So I suppose one could blame him cuz he waited until he could get the best price he could and in part, why consumers then paid more for the food produced.

_____________________________

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 7:58:29 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

...again there is no liquidity problem. Why this obsession. Oil companies just s soon NOT deal with these speculators because of all of the cash they have to use to protect themselves. If any market in the world is NOT in need of liquidity...it is oil.

I didnt specify oil, i said commodities which is a whole range of items. But if a trucking company wants to know the cost of his fuel at some point down the road, then they can hedge in the futures market, oil or gas or whatever futures he wants to use. Its not all just about oil companies, its also about all the businesses that need to transport goods, or service workers, etc or businesses that turn oil into other products that we use every day..

http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products%20from%20Petroleum.htm

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:04:58 PM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		Use whatever common sense you have left in your little pinkie. If this were true don't you think they would have kept gas prices low during the 2008 Presidential election.

My theory that the Arabs intentionally ran up the gas prices to get Obama elected are much more plausible. This time though, the experts are saying that the democrat monetary policies are devaluing the dollar making it more expensive.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:10:25 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
Some take delivery and some just buy or sell the contract so that they are out of the market with their profit or loss.. I have traded futures and never took delivery of what i was trading... Its a zero sum game..

"Generally, the delivery does not occur; instead, before the contract expires, the holder usually "squares their position" by paying or receiving the difference between the current market price of the underlying asset and the price stipulated in the contract."
http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-537-alternative-investments-introduction-to-futures-and-futures-trading.html

It is important that there be liquidity in the commodities markets, imo..

...again there is no liquidity problem. Why this obsession. Oil companies just s soon NOT deal with these speculators because of all of the cash they have to use to protect themselves. If any market in the world is NOT in need of liquidity...it is oil.

I didnt specify oil, i said commodities which is a whole range of items. But if a trucking company wants to know the cost of his fuel at some point down the road, then they can hedge in the futures market, oil or gas or whatever futures he wants to use. Its not all just about oil companies, its also about all the businesses that need to transport goods, or service workers, etc or businesses that turn oil into other products that we use every day..

http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products%20from%20Petroleum.htm

You are correct but the cash being invested in futures does not provide any liquidity to any market needing oil. Most users of oil do not hedge with futures but the oil cos. are huge buyers 24/7 and must protect themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:19:58 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
Yeah-cuz the traders/speculators won't just move their businesses to off shore locations and continue doing what they do...


Exactly. Banning oil futures in the US would be patently ridiculous, and would cause even wilder price swings; these bets would just be shifted to the Commodity Exchange in London. Unified markets allow spontaneous calculation, and oil prices would be much more difficult to ascertain if a large country banned futures trading. Even if all countries banned futures trading, then speculation would show up on eBay or something.

Plus speculators also can drive prices down. I'm guessing the OP wouldn't mind the short-sellers in the oil futures biz.


o59 still has a point because they drive the prices artificially high which can be seen using a stochastic. They wait till it gets painful before reversing the trades.

There was a tape floating around in 2001 where you could see and hear them fixing the oil prices.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:23:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Use whatever common sense you have left in your little pinkie. If this were true don't you think they would have kept gas prices low during the 2008 Presidential election.

My theory that the Arabs intentionally ran up the gas prices to get Obama elected are much more plausible. This time though, the experts are saying that the democrat monetary policies are devaluing the dollar making it more expensive.



they only make about 5 - 6 bucks a barrel.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:27:43 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
You are correct but the cash being invested in futures does not provide any liquidity to any market needing oil. Most users of oil do not hedge with futures but the oil cos. are huge buyers 24/7 and must protect themselves.

so airline corps, Fedex, courier companies, national or international trucking companies, shipping companies and all the large product manufacturers, etc, etc, etc dont hedge in the futures market? if that is the case they would be changing their price sheets every week.. You dont convince me.. I know if I used any amount of oil in my business and my costs and prices to the consumer depended on the price i paid, I would be friggin hedging!..

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(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: How The Gas Prices Are Manipulated By The Koch Brot... - 2/26/2012 8:38:52 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

Use whatever common sense you have left in your little pinkie. If this were true don't you think they would have kept gas prices low during the 2008 Presidential election.

My theory that the Arabs intentionally ran up the gas prices to get Obama elected are much more plausible. This time though, the experts are saying that the democrat monetary policies are devaluing the dollar making it more expensive.



What "experts"- republicans on the economics committee? Obama doesn't set monetary policy, and has very little control over what the Fed does, Bernanke sets monetary policy, just like Greenspan did before him, and Volker before that.

Presidents, along with congress, set fiscal policy.

And, at the moment, there are so many conflicting forces going so many ways, I kinda doubt even the Fed can stay on top of it entirely.

Increased consumer confidence leading to increased demand, on top of instability in the ME could account for it, given that OPEC cannot increase supply on demand, some believe the Saudis have already hit their peak, and production is falling.

I'm sure he Koch Bros. would be happy to lend a hand in that, but volatility in the energy sector is just something everybody is going to have to get used to - the party is over, the Oil boom has run it's course, and all the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to change that.

We will be living in a substantially different world by the end of this decade.

< Message edited by xssve -- 2/26/2012 8:40:44 PM >

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(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
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