RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


Owner59 -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 8:13:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

To commercialize a basic need in general means it will get more expensive, not cheaper.
There are many examples outside of healthcare to support my statement.


Thank you Mr Bukani, for putting it so succinctly and so strongly and with words anyone can understand.





SoftBonds -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 8:13:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Yeah, as if anyone cared how I got to what I believed before. And, shall we add, this [insurance companies being a huge driver of costs] is what I've been trying to get someone to actually state. I think it was Tweakabelle that made the comment that health care should never have become "for profit." Interestingly enough, I've been calling for a return to the "not for profit" methods in use prior to health care becoming "for profit." Instead, all I hear is that Government is the only answer possible. Obviously, it isn't the answer. That is exactly the point I've been trying to lead people to without stating it myself. I knew no one would believe me if I said it. But, now, others have said what I've believed the whole time.


So just to summarize, rather than making your point in the first place, you have been hinting and trying to get someone else to make your point for you?
Do you not see how this would create a lot of confusion, misunderstandings, and un-needed stress and fighting?




DesideriScuri -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 8:15:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Regarding the executive compensation boards, shareholders don't have the power to change the system. Maybe the government could though. How about a law saying that to increase compensation for anyone if they would then be paid more than the President of the US will require a vote of the shareholders on that specific issue.


Was reading on another message board about this, but have yet to dig into it. If what was posted is true, then we could have a win/win by changing this. Here is the very interesting part of the discussion:

quote:

quote:


Alan Greenspan:
"Why did corporate governance checks and balances that served us reasonably well in the past break down? At root was the rapid enlargement of stock market capitalizations in the latter part of the 1990s that arguably engendered an outsized increase in opportunities for avarice. An infectious greed seemed to grip much of our business community. Our historical guardians of financial information were overwhelmed. Too many corporate executives sought ways to "harvest" some of those stock market gains. As a result, the highly desirable spread of shareholding and options among business managers perversely created incentives to artificially inflate reported earnings in order to keep stock prices high and rising. This outcome suggests that the options were poorly structured, and, consequently, they failed to properly align the long-term interests of shareholders and managers, the paradigm so essential for effective corporate governance. The incentives they created overcame the good judgment of too many corporate managers. It is not that humans have become any more greedy than in generations past. It is that the avenues to express greed had grown so enormously."


Little understood part of our current situation, right there.
Tax laws were changed in the 1990's, directed at executive compensation. The net result was all the decision makers and power brokers were motivated no longer by profit and loss but by asset and liability. This is a fundamental economic issue with profound implications for the way our economy works.
Profit and loss is readily understood; sell a product or service for something more than it costs and you have a successful business, the world is simple, and makes sense to all.
Asset and liability is a whole other way of looking at the economy and doing business. Products and services can be delivered to customers at a loss and yet the business can still grow and growth means the stock takes off and that is good for people compensated not by profit and loss but my asset and liability.
Balancing the two is good. The tax laws emphasize and promote imbalance in favor of asst and liability.
Our current economic crisis could not have happened before this tax law change.


If this is, in fact, truth, then the there could be a relatively easy fix.

quote:

Regarding your statement a few days ago that you were young and healthy and didn't see why you should need to pay for insurance... If you don't pay for insurance I have to pay for you. Nuff said?


If I stated that it was me that was young and healthy, then I apologize for that incongruity. I don't think I did that, though. What I probably did was frame the reference to the young and healthy in a way that it was unclear that I was not in that category.

If someone doesn't pay for insurance and gets care free (to them), then those who buy insurance are paying for that someone's care. If someone doesn't pay for insurance and pays everything out of his/her own pocket, then the cost of your insurance does not include the cost of that person's care. I do not believe you should have to subsidize my care. You should only subsidize the care for whom you choose. You can not do that via Gub'Mint.




SoftBonds -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 8:15:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Then Government-provided security forces are another kind of insurance company, I suppose.
It's fun going down this track, isn't it? Where does supporting the public funding of one kind of service against another stop being an upright, patriotic and true American thing to do, and start being a commie, freedom-hating thing to do? Weird.


See, now, the "Common Defence ... of the United States" is actually in the Constitution. That is what differentiates the two services you are comparing.



Common defense... but not common offense.
So a war outside US soil is not in the constitution, right?




SoftBonds -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 8:18:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

If I stated that it was me that was young and healthy, then I apologize for that incongruity. I don't think I did that, though. What I probably did was frame the reference to the young and healthy in a way that it was unclear that I was not in that category.

OK, sorry for the misunderstanding.
quote:



If someone doesn't pay for insurance and gets care free (to them), then those who buy insurance are paying for that someone's care. If someone doesn't pay for insurance and pays everything out of his/her own pocket, then the cost of your insurance does not include the cost of that person's care. I do not believe you should have to subsidize my care. You should only subsidize the care for whom you choose. You can not do that via Gub'Mint.

Right now I pay for the care of anyone who can't pay for themselves.
Once Obamacare forces people to get insurance, I will no longer have to pay for their care.
I think that is a win!




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 10:13:12 AM)

ok

so harry von broke on his ass says gee mr ohaha I cant afford it.

now what?

chain him to a mill wheel beat the fucker to death? Bring back debtor prisons? LMAO




Musicmystery -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 10:20:12 AM)

Clearly, the bill already addresses that scenario.




mnottertail -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 10:20:16 AM)

The language is in the bill.   There will be a little less overage in your taxes owed you, or you will owe the government some money, which when the mood strikes them, they are relentless about collecting.





Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 11:27:08 AM)

yep the gubafia is now the collection agency for big pharma just like property taxes, and if the mf dies? chain their family to the mill wheel.

First they make laws that hospitals have to service all walkins then when the hospitals are going fucking broke they come to the rescue by taking it all over.

Ignorant bastards, it becomes a "secured" debt owed to the gubafia and if you own property and the bill meets or exeeds its value kiss that shit bye bye!

~Fucking Commies R U.S.

It always works off of the lowest tier and that keeps going up as their MANAGED inflation continues the devalue the dollar.

I have an idea.

Lets just take ALL private industry and transfer it to the gubafia. Hell I want the IRS to be MY collection agency too!

Well except Gubafia Motors since they already acquired that huh..... lol

I have to laugh at how short sighted and blind 21st century IDJITS are! ~Lights are on, Nobody is home!










Musicmystery -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 11:39:48 AM)

quote:


Ignorant bastards, it becomes a "secured" debt owed to the gubafia and if you own property and the bill meets or exeeds its value kiss that shit bye bye!


Actually, that already happens in the private system, and it's a problem the bill addresses.




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 11:41:31 AM)

yep as I described

you dont get it.

the only time anyone gets remotely a fair shake in a court is private party versus private party where the gubafia has "NO INTEREST" in the outcome.

as soon as gubafia is in that mix the courts ALWAYS lean gubafia because now the burden is on you to prove they do not have the authority to take some measure not stated in the original contract but added later to accomplish some end. -and believe me as a states attorney general I could wordsmith a brief to sand paper your ass no matter how much law to the contrary you came into the suit with.

Now they can legislate it from here forward on their OWN authority can change it any damn way they want without our consent and guess what its constitutional because "literally" anything can be constitutional.

If you think it is not as I described in my previous post point out the provision and the constitutional amendment to insure that provision is organic. Oh wait you cant because it does not exist.

did you vote for that shit?

I didnt never showed up on any referendum in my part of town!

Last time I checked I was the "People" (according the popular "OPINION" of what that means)

WTF!






Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 12:05:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

To commercialize a basic need in general means it will get more expensive, not cheaper.
There are many examples outside of healthcare to support my statement.


Thank you Mr Bukani, for putting it so succinctly and so strongly and with words anyone can understand.




anyone? I beg to differ!




Musicmystery -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 1:53:31 PM)

You get nuttier every day.




MrBukani -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 2:03:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You get nuttier every day.

I will tell you whats nuts.
You can pay for a get out of jail for free card, Since you can hire an army of lawyers.(when you got the money aye?)
Is that justice?
Justice is a basic need right?
But lets not argue.
Been there done that.




Musicmystery -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 2:22:36 PM)

You do too. I've no idea what you're talking about.




MrBukani -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 2:26:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You do too. I've no idea what you're talking about.

Justice is a basic need to my view.
As long as we have to pay 200 dollars an hour for a good lawyer, there doesnt exist any justice in my view.
I cant pay that absurd amount to go to court.
And I do have a lot of courtcases comin up, all against big motherfuckin companies.




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 2:42:43 PM)

thats only the tip of the iceburg!

There is also 400 bucks filing fee, jury fee, 10 bucks per minute transcript fee, and another 350 bucks per appeal and 25 cents per copy for court records, and not to forget 10 bucks certification fee per record for any records you need certified and that is if you do it all yourself! Then add attorney fees on top of all that shit.

If you want to get copies of THEIR records under open records its 25 cents per for that IF they will even give them to you.

In my state they even have "confidential informants" for anything. No names required, no one to file a tort against for a false report, just call it in and move over so Jimmy can take over!

Open season for the SS and Gestapo elements of our gubafia since you can not know and cannot get a release who reports.


They made a crime out of non injury or damage traffic matters.

Thats the problem, most people have never even seen a courtroom for anything more than a judge judy divorce and frankly are clueless armchair keyboard commandos LOL.











Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 2:44:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You get nuttier every day.



yeh you used to say that about monetary inflation too eh. LOL




MrBukani -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 3:25:21 PM)

Sorry I must say I am prejudiced, my family owns the abn-amro bank. So maybe I am safe. But I rather see an equal playground. Fuck all banks. Fuck the templars. Fuck governments. Fuck the rich. I was born among them. I will inherit their shit. And use it against them. Fuck em.




tazzygirl -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/8/2012 4:20:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Much. And after your attitude here, we have nothing left to discuss.

Well wishes

Welcome to the club, tazzy!. [:D]

I reached a similar point of exasperation a while ago following this exchange:

DS:" How do we lower costs?"

tweakabelle: "Very simple. Establish a universal health scheme asap.
They cost about half the cost of the system that operates in the USA currently
. "

DS: "How is it we are going to halve our costs? That is why I ignore those things."

What is the point of answering questions if someone chooses to ignore informative answers - it's effectively choosing to wallow in ignorance isn't it? It's pointless trying to communicate with people with such preferences, particularly so when the blinkers are adopted for ideological reasons.







My time is limited a bit these days, tweak. I would much prefer to have a discussion with someone who is at least willing to entertain other ideas.

The -that wont work because its not what the FF wanted/in the original Constitution- is old, tired and worn out. If we take out all that was not what they insist was the "original", this country would dissolve.




Page: <<   < prev  9 10 [11] 12 13   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875