RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 6:02:32 PM)

quote:

I didn't hear that they would if Obamacare was passed at all. Most typically it's heard when you start talking about reducing reimbursement rates and/or not increasing them as inflation runs its course. Since the Doc Fix bills keep passing (not sure how that's excluded from health reform) and Obamacare isn't in full swing yet, you aren't likely to see Dr.'s leaving in droves. That may never happen, but if Medicare reimbursement rates are cut, you'll see a great deal fewer doctors willing to take on more Medicare patients.


I am sorry you missed it all over the national news.

But you can click here and read up on what you missed.

quote:

The same way they sued over wrongful deaths when the AIDS scare was in its heyday. Did the insurance companies cause their aids? Nope. They denied them care. There wasnt a single person at those insurance companies who caused their disease, wasnt a single person who could have cured their disease, yet they were held accountable for denying care to those who needed it.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/17/us-insurers-idUSTRE62G2DO20100317

Note the date... 2010

http://www.mendeley.com/research/mason-tenders-agrees-pay-1-million-end-ada-litigation/

1995

quote:

Yes, in totally free Free Market Capitalism, there is no regulation at all, and monopolies can exist. However, what I have said time and time again, is that there is a necessity for government regulation, to a certain degree, but that we are already well past that point. Prevention of monopolies is one of those necessary government regulations. See, now? If you would have actually given me credit for what I state, and asked me about it, you wouldn't be making these mistakes, over and over.


But it did have governmental oversight... bare minimum.. as your definition of what you were seeking in your free market stated.

quote:

Because Capitalism is what has driven the US's rise to the economic leadership position we are still in. Interesting to note: China's current economic expansion was created by their government reducing their stranglehold and adopting more capitalistic measures. Of course, that probably has nothing to do with it, right?


It wouldnt have anything to do with cheap labor and unregulated control over that, now would it? Nor the fact that they run sweat shops? Nor that building is cheap and the tax benefits plentiful?

The rest of your post is all messed up. Its not up to me to try and figure out what you are saying there. That is one of the reasons Gamma as said to trim quotes. If you fix it, I will address the rest of those points. If not.. eh.

quote:

You mean, like when it was run by religious and other charitable institutions? But, wait...wasn't that what I've been saying is the solution...? Huh. Interesting.


Ah yes, religions institutions.. so they can tell me, a nonreligious person (in their eyes) what care I can or cannot have? I dont know any nonsecular charitable institutions. Mind hooking me up with links? I did provide you with the ones you asked for.




tazzygirl -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 6:15:39 PM)

quote:

lmao... by returning the 25-27% people pay out of their paychecks in taxes? I need to talk to your accounting people.. they are miracle workers.


quote:

adores da tazzygirl...yep, each european country has its own healthcare
system...

now...lemme enlighten you about our taxes as I did once on another thread:

my salary in december has been: €2547,36
i also got €80,10 bonus paid (generous from boss, as I just started working there in oktober) as well as €122,71 working in the field i am in...

So I got all together in december: €2750,17......

now the taxes (not being deducted from bonus, so being deducted from the sum of €2670,07 were €382,66

leaving me 2287,41

would be nice actually, but as from that sum I still have to pay
Solidar-Zuschlag (as I write via phone I'm not googling english word for it but we have to pay that to contribute to the costs of the reunification of Germany) another €21 will be deducted...

then I have to pay church tax (as in my job I cant drop out as most employers demand to be church payer) which are another 30,61 leaving my payslip...

then I paid in that month €218,95 health insurance,
and another 6,57 Euro which went to my health insurance

the retirement fund received €265,67 and 7,97 Euro

unemployment insurance got € 41,25

care insurance got €33,69

and so my salary from originally 2670 went down to 1741,76...

though personally I dont complain as I'm glad I don't have to fear bankruptcy should I ever face a long lasting severe Illness...thats at least what we sometimes hear about the US system in the news...


I fear I may have left the impression that the percentages I quoted above were german percentages, they were not. I do thank you for explaining just what you do pay out and what goes were. It is very enlightening.

My percentages are based upon what I saw coming out of my own paychecks total, including insurance, as slack as it was. My point was that on 1000 biweekly checks (for example) the total withdrawals from my check would have been 250. Returning 250 to me would take care of my medical needs, maybe, depending on whats wrong with me. But, what would we do for roads, schools, employees?

Returning money to the US public to "pay for themselves" is not a viable option.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 6:23:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Returning money to the US public to "pay for themselves" is not a viable option.
Well then how do they do it in the Libertarandian alt universe? Huh? Huh? [8D]




tazzygirl -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 6:51:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Returning money to the US public to "pay for themselves" is not a viable option.
Well then how do they do it in the Libertarandian alt universe? Huh? Huh? [8D]




If I answer that, it will be viewed as an attack..and not just by one poster.

You guys, really... allow me to be a kinder poster. [8D]




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 7:37:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


It would not create a larger society, of whatever sort, else the thirty other OECD countries with universal health care would be busting at the seams about now.

It would, however, create a less destitute society, which most modern non-third world thought and mores consider a good thing.







it would create a larger group of idiots who are to damn stoooooopid to think past the snot dripping from their noses that think the services are "free".

All gubafia services are initiated with one intent and in the long run get abused.

Its just another way to enslave the populus.

You see when you deal with the devil you grant your soul.

We have a debt every year that grows and gets passed down generation to generation that is completely out of the control of the people to change. Really? Try it. I will bring flowers.

That is known since the beginning of time as "bond" slavery.

all nations under debt monetary system are bond slaves.

Governments love it of course.




Edwynn -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 7:46:43 PM)



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~






Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 7:54:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


If that is what you consider most all citizens of every modern developed economy to be, why are you wasting time with all your 'educational' efforts? I'll tell you what would be a great opportunity to convince the unwashed and the ignorant of 'the better way' would be to point out an example of this enlightened non-slavery that has ever occurred in a society of any notable size at any point in the last several thousand years. Of course, assuming something as obvious (to some) that others may have investigated and read through these same deep and sacred screeds yet came to different conclusions or gleaned whatever to be had from it with a more sober perspective nonetheless having seemingly never occurred to you, I'm sure that folks will be eager to just take your word for all of it, no example needed.

From my experience, the various notions of some absolute 'freedom' or absolute 'truth' espoused by some can never be demonstrated or explained other than by lower and more crude levels of thought, much simplification and avoidance of the practical and practicable required.

Nature, both planetary and human, ultimately rules in the end.







Sorry this is not a modern economy, its as old as the bible and it is know for some of the greatest level of despotism on the planet. (as we have now).

You might want to look at old sax law, the tally system and there are a host of sytems that work fine, in fact this system has potential to work fine if the corruption could be cleaned up.

The real irony here is that the only way to fix "this" system puts the people in even a worse state of affairs than leaving it the way it is.

Jefferson correctly warned what would happen if the banks were allowed to control by inflation and deflation while the bank spits in everyones face laughingly claiming that if they get control over a nations money they could give a flying fuck about the laws. Its 100% true and doubtful anyone here can even scratch the surface of "why" its true and describe the mechanisms used to achieve it.

You see none of this is new. Its all very old and well understood.



.
quote:

From my experience, the various notions of some absolute 'freedom' or absolute 'truth' espoused by some can never be demonstrated or explained other than by lower and more crude levels of thought, much simplification and avoidance of the practical and practicable required.

Nature, both planetary and human, ultimately rules in the end.


oh there most certainly is. these things were never taught but by tutors. If you are not graced with a yale or harvard education you frankly do not stand a chance. I can imagint the shock when kids from poorer families get it double barrel about the dark realities of this world never before imagined.

Now if you want to talk about boundless freedom in a sense of released from all duty which anyojne who read my rights post above can immediately draw the conclusion is non-existant.

Absolutes however do exist as a steeple or even a bell curve within given boundaries, not in its most expansive limitless sense.

Little does anyone realize that the brits under the king even before the revolution had countless more rights than we do today in america. we are nothing more than a feudal plantation penal system and I assure you that no one can add that up to even imagine why I would say such a thing LOL (but its true)




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 7:58:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~



Like reading the White Pages, eh? [:D]




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 8:00:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~






yes that is why everyones boats are stuck on the sand bar of incapable while mine floats and ready to rock.

Really people have to think outside that old programmed box they locked themselves into.

"this is the way life IS and it IS the ONLY way it shall EVER be!"

Anything outside that box and you are a heretic and have committed sacrilege against the sacred keynes and pals. LOL If you want to get into the depths of this sort of thing we can start a thread, but look to interest and therein is the answer.




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 8:03:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~



Like reading the White Pages, eh? [:D]



yeh no shit, and what really sucks is when ya wind up having some of the very best debates and conversations with fucking asswipe attorneys.

I never thought I would see that day.




Edwynn -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 8:16:13 PM)


I have been inside and outside of more boxes than I can count, epistemologically/philosophically/spiritually speaking. I retained not a whole lot of it, it was mostly from curiosity and for good exercise, and if one goes through enough of that things start canceling each other out anyway. In any case I am ever so grateful that I never got stuck in one of them. It is not comfortable for me to watch another stuck in the same box for such a long time, in seeming perpetuity.





Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 8:40:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


I have been inside and outside of more boxes than I can count, epistemologically/philosophically/spiritually speaking. I retained not a whole lot of it, it was mostly from curiosity and for good exercise, and if one goes through enough of that things start canceling each other out anyway. In any case I am ever so grateful that I never got stuck in one of them. It is not comfortable for me to watch another stuck in the same box for such a long time, in seeming perpetuity.




well its pretty tough to have an informative discussion that goes to the merits of anything with shallow ill educated people regardless unless we want to simply state y is good and x is bad.

The system we have is a disaster, and it is designed to suck everything into the banks and aristocracy long in the shadows.

Systems like this are maintained by the illusion that everyone else can suck at the trough and get a piece of that action. Of course they get table scraps and think its the best thing since sex.

The government does not do anything to help the people and never have., Its all about their own asses and interests and painting a great picture for the "fair" and "balanced" news et al LMAO. [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/emot174.gif[/image]








Edwynn -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 10:23:47 PM)


I've never been much of one to entertain debate for its own sake. Never had appeal to me. I'm also not much up for discussion for its own sake. I am only not boring in real life, where spontaneity of life holds sway. I am too slow to be interesting on the internet, and I'm OK with that.

I have in fact delved through much of the citizenship, Buck Act, 'federal zone,' renounce citizenship, government is a private corporation, admiralty law, 'resident alien,' no driver's license, etc. genre ~ 15-20 years ago. Had a few  books, don't remember the titles, and the only magazine (of several) that I remember is Anti Shyster Lawyer from Al Adask. I considered it good reading, most of it, and still do in some ways, that one magazine in particular. But venturing into that territory in any real way, and looking forward from there, I felt as boxed in as I ever had in any other situation.

I eventually felt my mind being 'funneled' in some way, not by design, not from intention on anyone else's part, just as result of the way my mind and the spirit behind it operate. "I am not meant for this, I am meant for something else." Which is what eventually happened/happens with most anything else that I go into deeply enough. So here I am years later and many other ventures later, a bit 'too late' in life by some estimations, going deeply into something that happens to involve academia. I don't necessarily feel my mind to be any less 'funneled' in this endeavor than I have in many others, but for the first time I am not hearing that "I am not meant for this" message (those voices in my head!) even though I am very much not meant for academia.

One thing I can say is that back in the day when I was reading into all the 'allodial title' and common law and whatever a 'free person' meant and such forth, most of the advocates and givers-of-good-information on these matters were not so presumptuous as to assume that everyone not of the same knowledge and immediate intent to act upon it were 'illiterate' or 'sheeple' (the serious ones never, or only rarely used the term, that being reserved for the provocateurs), and I am most certainly glad that I moved beyond before that ungainly and speak-to-the-lower-audience term 'gubafia' ever came along. Whew! That alone would have turned the switch off right then and there.

But given all the 'dark secrets' of the world (Covert Action Quarterly and Steamshovel Press {"All conspiracy, no theory"} totally rock!) that I had read of before and read after that particular 'slave of bond holders' venture, ultimately it was not difficult for me to have a healthy sense of perspective about it all (not to mention a quite accurate assessment of it, as it turns out). Other unavoidable, nay, ineluctable ventures into science, amateur physics and astrology, meta physics, spirituality, meta spirituality, etc. took my attention and, thankfully, my venturesome soul to both monochromatic-er and paisley-er (though as yet, not greener) pastures. 

Make a deal? I'll refrain from pointing out that you are a puppet of the macro-strategical provocateurs in exchange for your refraining from claiming that everyone else who is not on your bandwagon is ill educated. In the grand scheme of things, we are all ill educated. I'll refrain from pointing out one obvious situation if you desist from pointing out another obvious condition of society.








tweakabelle -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 10:28:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~



Like reading the White Pages, eh? [:D]


Sorry HK, there is at least one significant difference ......

While the White Pages isn't exactly scintillating reading, it does at least contain the occasional fact or two ......





Edwynn -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 10:42:57 PM)


Facts are a dime a dozen. Relevance seems to be the sticking point here.






Hippiekinkster -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/6/2012 10:51:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



~ Yaaawwwwwnnnnn .... ~



Like reading the White Pages, eh? [:D]


Sorry HK, there is at least one significant difference ......

While the White Pages isn't exactly scintillating reading, it does at least contain the occasional fact or two ......


You are so right! You're good at pointing out stuff that slides right by me. Think I'll keep ya around for a while. [sm=dance.gif]

So how about that Black Knight there? Got all his limbs cut off, and he doesn't realize it!




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/7/2012 4:22:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


I've never been much of one to entertain debate for its own sake. Never had appeal to me. I'm also not much up for discussion for its own sake. I am only not boring in real life, where spontaneity of life holds sway. I am too slow to be interesting on the internet, and I'm OK with that.

I have in fact delved through much of the citizenship, Buck Act, 'federal zone,' renounce citizenship, government is a private corporation, admiralty law, 'resident alien,' no driver's license, etc. genre ~ 15-20 years ago. Had a few  books, don't remember the titles, and the only magazine (of several) that I remember is Anti Shyster Lawyer from Al Adask. I considered it good reading, most of it, and still do in some ways, that one magazine in particular. But venturing into that territory in any real way, and looking forward from there, I felt as boxed in as I ever had in any other situation.

I eventually felt my mind being 'funneled' in some way, not by design, not from intention on anyone else's part, just as result of the way my mind and the spirit behind it operate. "I am not meant for this, I am meant for something else." Which is what eventually happened/happens with most anything else that I go into deeply enough. So here I am years later and many other ventures later, a bit 'too late' in life by some estimations, going deeply into something that happens to involve academia. I don't necessarily feel my mind to be any less 'funneled' in this endeavor than I have in many others, but for the first time I am not hearing that "I am not meant for this" message (those voices in my head!) even though I am very much not meant for academia.

One thing I can say is that back in the day when I was reading into all the 'allodial title' and common law and whatever a 'free person' meant and such forth, most of the advocates and givers-of-good-information on these matters were not so presumptuous as to assume that everyone not of the same knowledge and immediate intent to act upon it were 'illiterate' or 'sheeple' (the serious ones never, or only rarely used the term, that being reserved for the provocateurs), and I am most certainly glad that I moved beyond before that ungainly and speak-to-the-lower-audience term 'gubafia' ever came along. Whew! That alone would have turned the switch off right then and there.

But given all the 'dark secrets' of the world (Covert Action Quarterly and Steamshovel Press {"All conspiracy, no theory"} totally rock!) that I had read of before and read after that particular 'slave of bond holders' venture, ultimately it was not difficult for me to have a healthy sense of perspective about it all (not to mention a quite accurate assessment of it, as it turns out). Other unavoidable, nay, ineluctable ventures into science, amateur physics and astrology, meta physics, spirituality, meta spirituality, etc. took my attention and, thankfully, my venturesome soul to both monochromatic-er and paisley-er (though as yet, not greener) pastures. 

Make a deal? I'll refrain from pointing out that you are a puppet of the macro-strategical provocateurs in exchange for your refraining from claiming that everyone else who is not on your bandwagon is ill educated. In the grand scheme of things, we are all ill educated. I'll refrain from pointing out one obvious situation if you desist from pointing out another obvious condition of society.







Um... ok BUT

Dont kid yourself I am an equal opportunity pointer.

I get in the faces of the so called patriots as much if not more than I get in the faces of troughers.

Several of the matters I speak to are showing up on campus now days which was nice to see.

The greater majority of government jurisdiction was and continues to be ill-gotten. The whole idea of health care is part and party to continue the master slave relationship between government and citizen.

The government can claim you as a citizen simply for being there for the sake of forcing "general" taxation upon you. They have no authority to do any such thing UNLESS we are feudal. Sorry. Hate to break it to ya.

There have been only but a scarce few cases that made it to the supreme court regarding "rights", the last biggie was ponds and it was kick ass.

I can run down all the nails in the coffin of "individual" rights that courts "INFLICTED" upon the people jointly and severally.

They use a different word or some manner outside the specific words drafted in the constitution to get around it. YOu have the infinite right to contract and that includes with the beast, and that right they will never violate when it comes to unwittingly joining their club, but you try and go the other way and your done.

Take for example terrorism, look at all the complete fucking retards that use that in trhe sense of a crime when no crime has ever been attached. The international community has been working for years trying to attach some kind of crime to it, anf that is what law is all about. Create a new word attach something that can be charged to it and presto shazamo you have a new revenue base, both civil and criminal!

We have completely left the constitution which requires jury trials for "everything" (not judges) and you would have gotten thrown out on your ass if you waltzed in with no material damages incurred. We exchanged real injury for pre-emptive lightning might strike fantasy injury by "assupmtive" or "presumtive" charges with no foundation what so ever.

If there ever was a reason for people to fear the GUBAFIA they are now using "not limited to" in statutes and ordinances. This opens the door for agents to charge you outside the standing law essentially making shit up as they go and you have to go to court and pay out of your pocket to defend against the very trustees that you believed were there for your protection.

No longer is the gubafia held down but they now have a "BLANK CHECK" that can be written by any agent expanding the legislation anywhere they want to take it by sanctioned outlawery.

There is no citizen contract in that there are shit loads of court cases stating that the government has no obligation to protect you! Like fucking DUH!

Legitimate government in america HAS an obligation to protect "RIGHTS" ALL rights, but they do not, on the contrary they rule against rights or continually slice away at them. Hell they do not even recognise ecclesiastic law in any court, but they are right there to cheerlead and give it lip service.

They are in breach of contract of their trustee duties that they are sworn to uphold and the real problem is that no one knows what to do to change it because it has gotten so far out of hand. In essense we lost our government.

No need to even bring up conspiracies at all, simply look at previous law and law today to see that our asses have been sandpapered raw through our own ignorance of tada "law".

If you really went through all that, then you recognise what I am talking about and I do not need to spell it out.

I posted that part on RIGHTS a few pages ago for a good reason, that is to show people how many ways it is sliced and diced because if you EVER want to go into court and win in an action against the governemnt, especially concering rights there are very "SPECIFIC" words that you need to use to create YOUR COURT.

The government has taken over by constructive subterfuge and key parts of law ignored to accomplish that end.

Remember you nor your grandma or grandpa ever voted on ANY AMENDMENT, (a scant 2 or 3 exceptions not with standing).

That is not government by the people in ANY sense of the word, democracy or republic, that is MOB rule, its a big club and you aint in it.

Lets take a look at the borders. the people protested and and you could not even get a fax through there was so much apprehension AGAINST open borders and what did the gubafia do? They droped the matter for a couple months and tried to run it through again. WTF is up with that? People support this shit as government by the people? That is ill-educated sorry.

Then if the people do not rise up and take over the government and acquiesce then in 20 years the gubafia simply says well the people took no action so they AGREED with the action and if the people take up arms then they toss you in some military concentration camp with trial stripping you of all rights.

The "gubafia" controls both sides of the contract and the alleged people are none the fucking wiser because colleges are turning out trougher bots.

The so called government creates an infinite source of revenue through "ITS" COURTS "AGAINST" the "WILL" of the people.

Go ahead show me the will of the constituency? YOU CANT there are no records kept!

Courts, constructive presumption, trusts, and corporations, a winning combination! If I wanted to take over the world that is precisely the tools of the trade I would use all while selling it off as an insurance policy.

I dont give a shit who you elect, they cannot beat that winning combination in your favor.

Trougher tards get a chunk of toilet paper after 4 years and "presume" they are intelligent ranging all the way from ill informed to completely clueless bots. LMAO

You see it out here every day: [image]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/stuff/republican_vs_democrat-667.gif[/image] these are people who have not figgered it out yet.

Now I have given you plenty to hit me back on if we wanted to detail. If my style is off putting good, the patriots say the same thing about me and the patriots for profit dont even let me talk in their little rallies and I figger if all these groups hate me I am doing something very right LOL. That is to say its really entertaining to be in my position since dems call me a republican, replicans call me a dem, patriots for profit wont let me near them, troughers call me all sorts of shit from conspiracy theorist to shit house patriot, (anything to promote their agenda), higher level gubafia respect my positions and tell me yeh but you need to change it and they continue to do what they have always done because that is the way it is done, and all that puts me so in the middle.







tweakabelle -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/7/2012 4:38:24 AM)

quote:

HippieKinkster
So how about that Black Knight there? Got all his limbs cut off, and he doesn't realize it!


Yup. I thought the Black Knight would make an ideal consumer of the US health system!

(and I cracked up laughing at the reference too!)




Real0ne -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/7/2012 4:47:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

HippieKinkster
So how about that Black Knight there? Got all his limbs cut off, and he doesn't realize it!


Yup. I thought the Black Knight would make an ideal consumer of the US health system!

(and I cracked up laughing at the reference too!)



way to go tweak.

aligning yourself with someone who claims AMJUR quotations is conspiracy shit.

(the bible of american law known as "American Jurisprudence")

then when I demonstrated what it really meant that same person put me on iggy squiggy as if that absolves their abject ignorance.

Sounds hauntingly familiar done it LOL

Good choice.




DesideriScuri -> RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? (3/7/2012 6:15:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
See, now, the "Common Defence ... of the United States" is actually in the Constitution. That is what differentiates the two services you are comparing.

Just incredible. I love how you guys avoid an answer hiding behind "Its the constitution"
Billions can be spent on defending American lives, but nothing can be spent on saving them ? The notion is ludicrous.

The Constitution doesn't have anything in it about giving away billions in tax money to oil companies and agro-chem companies either, and of course some of these 'scripture' folk will say "oh, I'm against that too!" but of course they never say that to start with. They're too busy ranting about poor people not paying taxes to notice, and it must be brought to their attention.
These are the same people still saying regulation "has gone too far" even after the financial fiasco that every person knowledgeable of the industry (especially NOT including the mortgage broker shysters) knows is the result of two major financial deregulation acts of congress and 20 years of laissez-faire by the Fed, with all other financial regulatory agencies following their lead.
The information on what works in health care, all pertinent numbers laid out, is right here, but apparently some are incapable of reading it or understanding it, this evidenced by further insistence on contradicting plain fact with inane ideological blathering about the wonders of the private sector in providing public goods and services.
Ceaseless ignorance abounds.


Let's get something out of the way. What tax money are we "giving away" to oil and agro-chem companies?

Are we Constitutionalists supposed to include our stances on everything in our initial responses to a thread? I mean, I don't recall seeing anyone else do that. In a thread that is about why Health Care Costs in the US are so expensive, I didn't realize I'd have to put it out that I want to end all subsidies and close all the tax loopholes. How am I supposed to let you know my stances on subsidies and tax loopholes outside of the Health Care industry in a thread about the Health Care industry? And, why does it even matter? Did you support President Obama's $2B funding of Brazil's development of off-shore drilling exploration? I don't recall you posting about that. Oh, but now that it's been questioned, are you going to say, "oh, I'm against that too?"

But seriously, what tax money is going to oil or agro-chem companies?




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