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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 4:48:02 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
quote:

Once you are past infancy, health care doesn't actually allow you to live. All it does, is allow you to live longer.

I do not see the logic in this sentence. Are infants all under medicare in the US perhaps?
Anyway my statement will be simple.
I believe in equal rights for basic needs like food,water,housing and medicare.
If someone does not believe in that, he does not believe in equal rights.
Inequality leads to revolution and we will just take the money back from the stinking rich in the end.
It's either bend or break in this respect.
The past has proven this over and over again. And it will happen again, in a way I am actually rootin for it. Cause it will make it easier to right all wrongs.
This time the haves may count themselves lucky if we dont behead them.


Infants need medical care to live. Once they are past that infancy stage, health care extends life. I suppose you can look at it as once an infant is pushed out, health care exists solely to extend life. While that may be technically true, I still see infants as requiring that care.

You believe in equal rights for basic needs like food, water, housing and medicare. Wow. Simply wow. Walk into a grocery store and walk out with groceries without paying. They call that theft. You can't point to me and say, "he's richer than me (can't say that because it most likely isn't true, for starters), have him pay." You will still be breaking the law. Housing? Guess what, they do have gub'mint housing. Do you want to live there? Water is a tricky one because it's fairly easily available for free, but you can't simply walk into someone's yard and take water from their spigot without permission. While city water in my area is pretty cheap, it's still theft to take it and force the cost onto me.

No one has a right to anything made or provided by someone else, unless rights were transferred by the maker/provider. If I make clay figurines, you can't just walk into my shop and tell me what to do with my figurines, how to make them, how to paint them, and take as many as you want without negotiating the cost of transferring the ownership rights. If you were that clay figurine maker and Big Gov came waltzing in and said that they decided everyone needs to have these figurines and that they are going to pay for them for everyone, but will only pay half of what it actually costs, what would you do? Would you dance your happy self up to Big Gov, shake their hand and acquiesce with a grin like Goofy's? Hell no, you wouldn't.

Why should a Dr.? You have no rights to a Dr.'s service simply because you are alive. If a Dr. agrees to see Medicare/Aid patients, he or she is accepting the reimbursement rates, as the negotiated fee for services provided. And, that is their absolute right to do so. On the flip side, a Dr. can also decide that reimbursement rates are too low and refuse to add any more Medicare/Aid patients, or refuse to see them at all.

You do know what they call it when Government walks in and forces people to provide services to others for a pittance, right? I believe that was outlawed quite some time ago. But, I suppose, if it's Government doing it, that's just fine. [/sarcasm]

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 4:53:36 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		The mandate for everyone to purchase insurance is to force the healthy people to buy insurance they may not use, paying for those that will use it.

Fucking income redistribution, based solely on health status. How the fuck is that right?

You know why the insurance companies don't really care about Obamacare and it's mandates? Because they are still going to be fine. They are jacking up rates now to cover their asses for when those with pre-existing conditions jump on board. Wasn't one of the provisions that you can't charge someone with pre-existing conditions more than others? All that means is that those healthy people are going to be paying more for their coverage than they have to.

I want to see single payer health care. I do. I want the single payer be the care recipient. I don't want to be forced into paying for my neighbors' care and I don't want them to be forced into paying for my care.[/quote]

So you're saying, to distill it to its essence: I'm not my Brother's keeper.

Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.

Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."

Matthew 6:24: "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."






< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 3/2/2012 4:55:59 PM >

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 4:55:20 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
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Status: offline 		"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

Hippie.........Nice quote.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 4:58:31 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

Hippie.........Nice quote.
Thanks. I'm not quite an Anarchist, but I think Bakunin stated a fundamental truth. The other one is from Reinhold Neiburr, but the name got truncated.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 5:00:34 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Health insurance is the difference between a lumpectomy and terminal cancer...
Between high blood pressure and stroke...
Between a colon impaction and bowel obstruction...
between life and death...
and before you start about charities, you may want to take a look at the waiting times for help from those agencies.
Tell me, are you a vet?


Not a vet. Parts of me wish I had made that choice to serve. I can't help but look at veterans and hold them in high esteem. I surprise a lot of servicemen and women by walking up to them and shaking their hands as I thank them for their choice to serve. I abhor the VA system of care because it is lousy, not because it exists.

Who says you get to have a lumpectomy or terminal cancer, HBP or a stroke, colon impaction or bowel obstruction? What gives you the right to demand that someone provide a service to you and then to have someone else pay for it?

In arguments I've had with a fellow high school graduate (one year behind me) who happens to be liberal/progressive, it has been said that one of the biggest reasons costs have risen so much is that the patient and the payer are so far apart. That is, an employer may be paying, but the employee is the one getting the care. If the employee paid for the care, there may be a lower rate of services provided. Giving payment responsibility to Government is worse than having employers do it. It's even further away.

How long do you have a right to live? How long? If I die before I reach my "right to live" age, are my survivors allowed to sue for wrongful death?

If you make a choice, shouldn't you be the one to gain or lose as a direct consequence of your choice? The Free Market System lives by supply and demand. There are two even larger factors that are absolutely key for healthy and vibrant Capitalism: Profit (success) and Loss (failure). Profits and loss are the two main feedback variables that will lead to improved services and goods. You have to have both. You can't simply prevent people from profiting, there will be no motivation for innovation. If you prevent all losses (aka bailouts [banking, auto, etc.]) there is no feedback that you are doing it wrong. That will only result in Market inefficiencies and misallocation of resources. Who seriously wants that?!?

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 5:05:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
The mandate for everyone to purchase insurance is to force the healthy people to buy insurance they may not use, paying for those that will use it.
Fucking income redistribution, based solely on health status. How the fuck is that right?
You know why the insurance companies don't really care about Obamacare and it's mandates? Because they are still going to be fine. They are jacking up rates now to cover their asses for when those with pre-existing conditions jump on board. Wasn't one of the provisions that you can't charge someone with pre-existing conditions more than others? All that means is that those healthy people are going to be paying more for their coverage than they have to.
I want to see single payer health care. I do. I want the single payer be the care recipient. I don't want to be forced into paying for my neighbors' care and I don't want them to be forced into paying for my care.

So you're saying, to distill it to its essence: I'm not my Brother's keeper.
Mark 10:21-22 Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
Luke 14:12-14 He said also to the one who had invited him, "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Luke 12:16-21 Then he told them a parable: "The land of a rich man produced abundantly. And he thought to himself, 'What should I do, for I have no place to store my crops?' Then he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build larger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.' But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So it is with those who store up treasures for themselves but are not rich toward God."
Matthew 6:24: "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."


Holy Hell Batman. Hippiekinkster, you might want to re-read what I posted and what I've posted all along. I support charities and honestly believe they are the way to get things done properly, and more efficiently than via government.

What you are either ignoring or missed in my posts was that I don't want to be forced into paying for those things. Jesus didn't force anyone. They had their own choices. Jesus made the consequences clear. It's up to you to choose and to do the right thing. Government taxing me to pay for someone else is not charity. That's theft. If you can't see the difference, well, gimme your wallet. lmao

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 5:14:58 PM   
Politesub53


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Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Thanks. I'm not quite an Anarchist, but I think Bakunin stated a fundamental truth. The other one is from Reinhold Neiburr, but the name got truncated.




Youre welcome.

I seem to think along the same lines. It baffles me why people feel capitalism cant walk hand in hand with a little philanthropy. The idea that it is wealth redistribution is nonsense, since the poor wont actually end up being wealthier, just not quite so poor.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 6:57:19 PM   
Edwynn


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I don't even consider it as philanthropy, rather just filling in some of the holes of the market system, no implementation of which can ever be perfect. The US has been going away from continental Europe and in fact more towards the third world countries in altering the rules of our market system to re-distribute wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest class. The fact that the US consequently has more people in need of relief assistance has so far done nothing to alter in many minds the nevertheless disproved notion that giving more to the rich and cutting off relief to those suffering from the consequences of this mistaken notion is the cure for all economic ills.

People can propose whatever culprits and causes they like for the high cost of health care in the US, but the basic numbers and facts are this:

Of the 34 OECD countries, the US is in company with Chile, Mexico, and Turkey in being the only four without universal health care.

The US spends 17.4% of GDP on health care; the next nearest, Netherlands, spends 12% of GDP. So the US spends 42% more of its GDP on health care than the next nearest country. That is a quite substantial difference. After all that, the US ranks lower than several countries in various measures of both overall health and quality of treatment.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/24/8/49084488.pdf


In terms of both social benefit and economic cost/benefit analysis, universal health care is conspicuously more successful.

Which proves the claim that "the private sector is more efficient" regarding health care to be the ideological fantasy BS that it is.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/2/2012 6:58:38 PM >

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 7:03:28 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		Austria, I think, has a universal private health insurance system. Of course, their health insurance companies are regulated like our utilities...
If Republicans would quit their bitchin' and pitch in, Obamacare could turn into a system like that someday.
Or they can fight to kill Obamacare, and we will just do the Medicare for all route...

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 7:45:43 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline 		On the contrary, the mandate makes sense because everybody gets sick eventually. Health insurance is like car insurance--I may not need it any time soon (and when it comes to car insurance, I may never need it, as I've never had an accident) but it is nice knowing it is there if I do need it.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 7:49:35 PM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		The last argument left to opponents of universal health schemes is one of pure selfishness and greed: "I don't want to pay for other peoples' healthcare" or a variation on this theme. Such statements have been made in this and similar threads many times.

Of course it is factually wrong. Typically universal healthcare schemes cost about half that of the insane US system. So they are in fact an awful lot cheaper. It appears that the short-sighted greed and selfishness of these people blinds them to these obvious savings. So here's the question they must address:
If it is possible to reduce US healthcare costs by c50% and at the same time save the tens of thousands of American lives lost annually as a direct consequence of lack of healthcare coverage, what possible reasons would anyone have to oppose it?

Surely any reasonable person would be prepared to spend an extra $10 or $20 or $30 per week to save tens of thousands of your fellow citizens lives annually. So why not do it when you can save 50 cents in every $ the US as a nation spends on healthcare?

It takes a particularly callous and myopic selfishness and greed to let tens of thousands of your fellow Americans die annually when their deaths are entirely preventable, especially when everyone is financially better off by preventing those deaths. To complain about the high costs of healthcare in the US, while opposing such a rational and enlightened method of reducing them by half is simply lunacy.

The single most effective measure to reduce US medical costs, by up to 50%, is the immediate introduction of a universal healthcare scheme.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/2/2012 7:56:56 PM >

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 7:56:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Status: offline 		I suspect (and it's just an opinion) it's the lack of hot nurses in the biz.

The high price of health care is a derivative of same (counterbalance issue I would presume).

(I haven't been sick in a while so I can't really offer anything anecdotal).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 3/2/2012 7:57:28 PM >

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 8:04:05 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
Joined: 2/10/2012
Status: offline 		How to tell your political party by your stance on health care:

Question 1. Do you believe that people with the money for health insurance should pay for the health care of the people who don't have health insurance?
>>Yes? You are a republican and support the pre-Obamacare system.
>>No? Go to question 2.

Question 2. Do you believe that A, Hospitals should be able to refuse care on the basis of inability to pay, or do you believe that B, everyone should have to have health insurance so that Hospitals are not forced to treat folks without insurance and charge the people with insurance more to make up their losses?
>>A? You are a libertarian
>>B? You are a democrat.

BTW, if you don't like the party you got lumped into, change your party's stance on health care...

Edit: If you want a universal system you are clearly a socialist, ask any republican...

< Message edited by SoftBonds -- 3/2/2012 8:05:07 PM >

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 8:30:35 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Holy Hell Batman. Hippiekinkster, you might want to re-read what I posted and what I've posted all along. I support charities and honestly believe they are the way to get things done properly, and more efficiently than via government.

What you are either ignoring or missed in my posts was that I don't want to be forced into paying for those things. Jesus didn't force anyone. They had their own choices. Jesus made the consequences clear. It's up to you to choose and to do the right thing. Government taxing me to pay for someone else is not charity. That's theft. If you can't see the difference, well, gimme your wallet. lmao

You Social Darwinists always talk up charities as though they are some sort of miraculous panacea for taking care of the sick, the infirm, the aged, the destitute... as though these people are some sort of drain on the military, and the multinationals, and the psychopaths on Wall St. and in mid-Manhattan, and especially on the Forbes 400.

And that is where you all take a 90 from reality. Historically, charity has NEVER been able to meet the needs of the most needy and infirm. The Romans had a system of welfare and pensions. The Sung Dynasty circa 1000 M.E. had social supports. In Medeival Europe the government (The Holy Roman Empire) administered welfare via Bishops, local Priests, and Deacons. The Poor Law of 1601, Elizabeth 43 established a local system of relief. That was fine for then. The Industrial Revolution brought new problems. That is exactly why Bismarck established Health, Accident, and Old Age and Disability Insurance beginning in 1883. And why similar systems sprang up all over Europe... and WHY workers began to take things into their own hands.

You can keep your Alisa Rosenbaum dystopia, where those who can't keep up with Howard Roark can just go off and die somewhere.




_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 8:37:15 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The last argument left to opponents of universal health schemes is one of pure selfishness and greed: "I don't want to pay for other peoples' healthcare" or a variation on this theme. Such statements have been made in this and similar threads many times.




Or, "I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's operation," which in any case shows complete ignorance of what insurance is for. Insurance is the pooling of risk. What people like that overlook is that they are already paying for other people's potentially greater health care costs in their own insurance premiums. If the coverage is universal, the overall cost is less and therefore the premiums are less. But some people would so much rather give twice the money to a corporation than what would be taken out of their check via universal coverage. The strictly private insurance method is not even working the way it should regarding pooling of risk, because they fight every step of the way to deny service when actually needed, and raise the premiums failing that. It is understandable that car insurance premiums rise after a wreck that is the fault of the insured, but many illnesses strike as they may regardless of health habits or lifestyle of the insured.

To those who say "I don't want to pay for others' insurance," I say "I'm tired of paying twice the premiums and ridiculous co-pay amounts because of your stupidity."

In any case, the question of health coverage cannot be equated to being able to buy a discretionary item or not, despite some laughable attempts in this thread to do so. It is an outright necessity.




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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/2/2012 8:58:04 PM   
SoftBonds


Posts: 862
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Status: offline 		You know, there is another issue.
The health insurance companies and their employees.
Not that I'd shed even a crocodile tear for them, but... They have a lot of power in DC.
So the trick is to find a deal that makes things better, while paying them off (bribery...sigh). Here is my proposal:
Raise FICAMED taxes by .05% (that is 5/10000 of your income) on both the employer and employee, each year for 10 years. Maybe add a kicker on the last year to make it an even 2% (it is currently 1.45%). In exchange for this, each year medicare covers people one year younger. By the end of 10 years, the oldest, least healthy Americans who don't currently qualify for medicare will have it. The extra income will pay both for the care, and for the shortfall (meaning we won't be raising income taxes to pay for medicare-I hope).
What do health insurance companies get out of it? Who are the folks that cost these companies the most money? Medicare would be taking their worst money losses off their hands.
Of course, there might be some competition over the market once the lower costs lead to higher profits... Lets not tell the insurance companies that.
But even if they figure it out, it is a certain future, it lets them shrink slowly, and they will get windfall profits as they shrink.
Once only people 54 and younger are covered by the private system, it will be easier to come up with a solution that works for everyone-especially since the vast majority of the costs will already be taken care of by medicare.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/3/2012 1:50:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Why should a Dr.? You have no rights to a Dr.'s service simply because you are alive. If a Dr. agrees to see Medicare/Aid patients, he or she is accepting the reimbursement rates, as the negotiated fee for services provided. And, that is their absolute right to do so. On the flip side, a Dr. can also decide that reimbursement rates are too low and refuse to add any more Medicare/Aid patients, or refuse to see them at all.


So he can use our tax dollars to educate himself and then tell us later to go fuck ourselves... lol

Very few Drs will refuse to see Medicare patients... they lose far too much money.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/3/2012 2:01:28 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel

On the contrary, the mandate makes sense because everybody gets sick eventually. Health insurance is like car insurance--I may not need it any time soon (and when it comes to car insurance, I may never need it, as I've never had an accident) but it is nice knowing it is there if I do need it.


More pointedly, if the day comes when you ever need it, you would at least get it.

I am glad that many of you over there actually get the point.

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/3/2012 2:05:55 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
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From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds

You know, there is another issue.
The health insurance companies and their employees.
Not that I'd shed even a crocodile tear for them, but... They have a lot of power in DC.
So the trick is to find a deal that makes things better, while paying them off (bribery...sigh). Here is my proposal:
Raise FICAMED taxes by .05% (that is 5/10000 of your income) on both the employer and employee, each year for 10 years. Maybe add a kicker on the last year to make it an even 2% (it is currently 1.45%). In exchange for this, each year medicare covers people one year younger. By the end of 10 years, the oldest, least healthy Americans who don't currently qualify for medicare will have it. The extra income will pay both for the care, and for the shortfall (meaning we won't be raising income taxes to pay for medicare-I hope).
What do health insurance companies get out of it? Who are the folks that cost these companies the most money? Medicare would be taking their worst money losses off their hands.
Of course, there might be some competition over the market once the lower costs lead to higher profits... Lets not tell the insurance companies that.
But even if they figure it out, it is a certain future, it lets them shrink slowly, and they will get windfall profits as they shrink.
Once only people 54 and younger are covered by the private system, it will be easier to come up with a solution that works for everyone-especially since the vast majority of the costs will already be taken care of by medicare.

If there's a flaw in this idea, I don't see it. Good thinking!


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 3/3/2012 2:09:09 AM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Why is US medical care so expensive? - 3/3/2012 2:23:41 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

The mandate for everyone to purchase insurance is to force the healthy people to buy insurance they may not use, paying for those that will use it.


Lets clear up a few misconceptions. Everyone accesses health care at some point in their lives. Everyone. Sometimes its not even by choice. A car accident, a fall on the slopes, a pedestrian hit by a car... an appendicitis.

Those who voluntarily go without health insurance are typically in their 20's to 30's. They are also the group that, as a whole, take the most risks.



The 65 and older crowd can be discounted because they have Medicare.. while it may not pay for everything, its better than nothing.

quote:

Not a single one of those people died because they lacked insurance. Not. A. One. Are people dying in the streets because they just got out of college, got dropped from their parent's insurance plan and have yet to gain insurance from their own job? No.


Prove it. Prove a lack of health insurance doesnt cause death. I happen to know it does.

quote:

Once you are past infancy, health care doesn't actually allow you to live. All it does, is allow you to live longer.


LOL.. so after the age of 2 (infancy stage), we dont need to worry about health care for a child... wonderful news! Im sure many parents will thank you for taking that burden off of them.

quote:

Who says you get to have a lumpectomy or terminal cancer, HBP or a stroke, colon impaction or bowel obstruction? What gives you the right to demand that someone provide a service to you and then to have someone else pay for it?


Ah then you agree lack of heath insurance causes death, because without it, those issues will never be resolved.

quote:

How long do you have a right to live? How long? If I die before I reach my "right to live" age, are my survivors allowed to sue for wrongful death?


Logan's Run? lol

What you are blissfully missing is this...

At some point, everyone accesses health care. Its either when the problem is minor.. or when its major.

Whats driving up health care costs is that people without insurance have to wait until the major... and then hospitals cannot turn them away.

A man has chest discomfort... if he has insurance, he will go to the hospital. If not, he will hope and pray its only heart burn, take something over the counter, and lay down. It doesnt get better... it gets worse... and he had to wait. Now he is off in a ambulance when someone could have driven him if he had left sooner. Now its code mode when he hits the ER, instead of a quiet but quick assessment and tests. Now its permanent heart damage when it very well could have been avoided.

quote:

If you make a choice, shouldn't you be the one to gain or lose as a direct consequence of your choice?


Yup, and people who buy insurance pay for those who dont. The problem with your logic, once again, is that everyone accesses health care... everyone. Some dont pay in... and they usually dont care when the bills roll around because they cant afford to live, let alone worry about paying a hospital bill thats over priced.

But, hey, if you dont mind paying for them... go for it! I am sure they appreciate it.

Yeah, I get it that you dont give a fuck. I am just thrilled that there are not that many people who are quite this uncaring when it comes to life or death.

quote:

Profits and loss are the two main feedback variables that will lead to improved services and goods.


ROFL.. here we go with trickle down theory again!

Pst.. it doesnt work.

quote:

You have to have both. You can't simply prevent people from profiting, there will be no motivation for innovation.


Pst.. news flash.. the US is not the only country and develops new technology. Sort of makes your comment moot.

Btw, you do know that hospitals treat first and ask about insurance later in cases of emergency, right?

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(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 60
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