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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

So what is so awful about democrat policy(s) that you would help and enable the GOP to not only throw the LGBT community under the bus......... but help the GOP to demonize the community?

There is a big difference between voting Republican and "helping thrown the GLBT community under the bus." The Log Cabin Republicans come to mind. That is a large, national, influential organization who is attempting to change the GOP stance on gay rights issues, from the inside. The world is not black and white, us vs. them. The world is shades of gray, and I honestly feel that the best way to get the GOP to realize what they are doing to the gay community is not by abandoning them over this issue, but staying with them and attempting to change them from the inside.

As for the Democratic party, I disagree with some of their fundamental tenets, such as larger government, increased taxes on "the rich," increased social programs, and the concept of a national health care system. Those issues, and those issues alone, are enough to make me sure that I can not support the DNC or party.

Now, for me, it came down to this:

Do I vote Democrat, thus having to swallow my distaste of several of their stances in order to get some of the gay rights issues I want addressed?
Do I vote Republican, thus having to swallow my distaste of their gay rights stance in order to get several other issues I want addressed?

Give up half a dozen, but gain one; or give up one, but gain a half a dozen? The choice was clear to me.

Additionally, - and I am not accusing you, Owner59, of thinking this way - but I am not just a gay man and resent being thought of us as just a gay man. My sexual orientation really is, when you get down to it, the least interesting thing about me. Sure, I will bring it up as a point of reference when discussing certain issues, like I did here. But, if the issue pertains to my profession, my home state, my hobbies, or my reading interests, then I will bring those up as well. When I go to the grocery store, I'm not a gay man doing his grocery shopping. I'm just a person doing his grocery shopping. So, choosing to vote purely because of one characteristic of who I am not only seems asinine to me, but serves to boil me down to nothing more than a demographic. I am so much more than that.

Do people often think I am shooting myself in the foot by voting for the likes of Bush, McCain, or Romney/Santorum/Gingrich/etc? Yes, quite frequently. Truth be told, there are things about each of them that I did, and do, despise greatly. But, at the end of the day, I still felt they share more of my values and my feelings than Gore, Kerry, or Obama.

I hope that explains to you how I approach the topic.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I am at more of a loss to say why someone who is gay, or a minority (except for Cuban Americans) would ever vote Republican. Maybe it is the same thing. That they view themselves as mainstream and don't feel they need to be protected from the majority? I don't know. These types of voting patterns never made sense to me.

See my post right above this one. Perhaps that will help you understand why minorities vote Republican. You still may not agree with my choice, and that is perfectly fine, but at least you may gain an understanding as to the thought process of me and people like me.

I'm really sorry, but this is like a Jew supporting the Nazis. You realize if the true conservatives had their way, your lifestyle would not be allowed. At all. All of the legal protections that you enjoy today came from liberals fighting for the cause. Take a look at how gay people are treated in conservative parts of the world. Is that really what you want to support? A back to the closet movement?

For the record, not that it should matter, but I am bisexual. And I've had relationships with women. I would rather support my right to EXIST than to support people who think I should not exist at all. Conservatives in this country are still saying things like being gay/lesbian is a genetic defect. You really want to throw in your towel with them when they think you are a genetic freak of some sort (who they are willing to tolerate because you provide them with a vote, but are not willing to tolerate for anything else).

You do a disservice to all of those in the past who have fought for gay rights - and some paid with their lives. I find that heartbreaking. You are only allowed the freedoms that you currently have in this country because liberals fought a fight for you in years past. And freedoms that have been given, can just as easily be taken away. Remember that before the Nazis rise to power, Jewish people in Germany were a successful group who were free to own property, run businesses, marry outside their faith, live where they chose to live, etc. etc. etc. All of those rights were slowly taken away. Our rights only last as long as we protect them. Rights today NEVER mean rights tomorrow if things swing in the wrong direction.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I am at more of a loss to say why someone who is gay, or a minority (except for Cuban Americans) would ever vote Republican. Maybe it is the same thing. That they view themselves as mainstream and don't feel they need to be protected from the majority? I don't know. These types of voting patterns never made sense to me.

See my post right above this one. Perhaps that will help you understand why minorities vote Republican. You still may not agree with my choice, and that is perfectly fine, but at least you may gain an understanding as to the thought process of me and people like me.

I'm really sorry, but this is like a Jew supporting the Nazis. You realize if the true conservatives had their way, your lifestyle would not be allowed. At all. All of the legal protections that you enjoy today came from liberals fighting for the cause. Take a look at how gay people are treated in conservative parts of the world. Is that really what you want to support? A back to the closet movement?...

Remember that before the Nazis rise to power, Jewish people in Germany were a successful group who were free to own property, run businesses, marry outside their faith, live where they chose to live, etc. etc. etc. All of those rights were slowly taken away. Our rights only last as long as we protect them. Rights today NEVER mean rights tomorrow if things swing in the wrong direction.

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
I am at more of a loss to say why someone who is gay, or a minority (except for Cuban Americans) would ever vote Republican. Maybe it is the same thing. That they view themselves as mainstream and don't feel they need to be protected from the majority? I don't know. These types of voting patterns never made sense to me.

See my post right above this one. Perhaps that will help you understand why minorities vote Republican. You still may not agree with my choice, and that is perfectly fine, but at least you may gain an understanding as to the thought process of me and people like me.

I'm really sorry, but this is like a Jew supporting the Nazis. You realize if the true conservatives had their way, your lifestyle would not be allowed. At all. All of the legal protections that you enjoy today came from liberals fighting for the cause. Take a look at how gay people are treated in conservative parts of the world. Is that really what you want to support? A back to the closet movement?...

Remember that before the Nazis rise to power, Jewish people in Germany were a successful group who were free to own property, run businesses, marry outside their faith, live where they chose to live, etc. etc. etc. All of those rights were slowly taken away. Our rights only last as long as we protect them. Rights today NEVER mean rights tomorrow if things swing in the wrong direction.

Do not forget, fucktoyprincess, that when the Jews were put in the camps, some of the Jews (believing it would save their own skins) volunteered to become members of the Kameradschaftspolizei or "Kapos". "Kapos" were known for their brutality toward other prisoners. Their brutality was tolerated and encouraged by the SS and was an integral part of the camp system.

Sadly, there are gays, lesbians, transgendered, bisexuals and just kinky straights today who would voluntarily become the next generation of "Kapos" for today's American Social Conservative Taliban, believing it would save their own skins.

History repeats itself - that's one thing wrong with history.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
I have been compared to a lot of things in my life, but this is a first. And people say the democrats are such loving people. I guess they don't spend much time in this forum.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Do not forget, fucktoyprincess, that when the Jews were put in the camps, some of the Jews (believing it would save their own skins) volunteered to become members of the Kameradschaftspolizei or "Kapos". "Kapos" were known for their brutality toward other prisoners. Their brutality was tolerated and encouraged by the SS and was an integral part of the camp system.
Sadly, there are gays, lesbians, transgendered, bisexuals and just kinky straights today who would voluntarily become the next generation of "Kapos" for today's American Social Conservative Taliban, believing it would save their own skins.
History repeats itself - that's one thing wrong with history.

I have been compared to a lot of things in my life, but this is a first. And people say the democrats are such loving people. I guess they don't spend much time in this forum.

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...you mourn at last, when your flesh and your body are consumed, And say: "How I have hated instruction, And my heart despised correction! I have not inclined my ear to those who instructed me!!

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

I'm seeing that the apparent trend in this line of discussion is "agree with us, or else." Sorry, that doesn't work for me. When someone feels the need to trot out tired, baseless comparisons to the Nazis in order to prove a point, all they have proven is their inability to conduct themselves rationally.

Just makes ya wanna run right out and vote Democrat, don't it?

K.

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
Do not forget, fucktoyprincess, that when the Jews were put in the camps, some of the Jews (believing it would save their own skins) volunteered to become members of the Kameradschaftspolizei or "Kapos". "Kapos" were known for their brutality toward other prisoners. Their brutality was tolerated and encouraged by the SS and was an integral part of the camp system.
Sadly, there are gays, lesbians, transgendered, bisexuals and just kinky straights today who would voluntarily become the next generation of "Kapos" for today's American Social Conservative Taliban, believing it would save their own skins.
History repeats itself - that's one thing wrong with history.

I have been compared to a lot of things in my life, but this is a first. And people say the democrats are such loving people. I guess they don't spend much time in this forum.

When you "love" someone, you correct them when you see they are doing wrong.

If you see someone doing wrong, particularly when doing so will eventually hurt them and others, and you say nothing - that shows that you don't "love" them.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Let me see if I understand this ...Rush is not a spokesperson for the right nor the Republicans ...good so far ?
But you guys are going to assume fightdirecto speaks for the Democratic Party as a whole ?
Really ?

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

But you guys are going to assume fightdirecto speaks for the Democratic Party as a whole ?

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

I have to add that the recent posts by certain members has taught me a valuable lesson. Apparently, to some liberals, I'm not a full person. I'm not an actual human being with a mind, body, and heart of his own. I'm not important enough to be allowed to make my own decisions, live my own life, and do what I want want to do to see my life improve by the standards I set.

To those particular liberals, I'm not a person. I'm simply a demographic, boiled down to little more than my sexual orientation. A lot of liberals accuse conservatives of focusing too much on sexual orientation, but at least the conservatives in my life see me as a full person. At least they see me as more than just gay. It's a shame that some of the liberals on here can't do that too.

My stance on the economy? Doesn't matter to them, I'm gay.
My stance on national defense? Who cares, I'm gay.
My stance on health care, personal liberty, gun control? None of that means jack to them, because I'm gay.

Apparently, ONE characteristic about me is all that is necessary for them to make up their mind about who I should be and how I should vote.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yet a few posters thought it was appropriate to measure FD's words against the behavior typically assumed (in this case sneeringly so)to be that of liberals in general ?

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

I have to add that the recent posts by certain members has taught me a valuable lesson. Apparently, to some liberals, I'm not a full person. I'm not an actual human being with a mind, body, and heart of his own. I'm not important enough to be allowed to make my own decisions, live my own life, and do what I want want to do to see my life improve by the standards I set.

To those particular liberals, I'm not a person. I'm simply a demographic, boiled down to little more than my sexual orientation. A lot of liberals accuse conservatives of focusing too much on sexual orientation, but at least the conservatives in my life see me as a full person. At least they see me as more than just gay. It's a shame that some of the liberals on here can't do that too.

My stance on the economy? Doesn't matter to them, I'm gay.
My stance on national defense? Who cares, I'm gay.
My stance on health care, personal liberty, gun control? None of that means jack to them, because I'm gay.

Apparently, ONE characteristic about me is all that is necessary for them to make up their mind about who I should be and how I should vote.

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ORIGINAL: MDomCouple

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Let me see if I understand this ...Rush is not a spokesperson for the right nor the Republicans ...good so far ?
But you guys are going to assume fightdirecto speaks for the Democratic Party as a whole ?
Really ?

I don't think anyone said that, actually. We just find it highly ironic that Democrats and liberals have been touted as such an accepting, loving, tolerant group. Yet, here we have a liberal who would rather compare us to Nazi-loving Jews than accept the fact that someone views the world differently than they do.