RE: The Authority of the Bible? (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 5:21:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I'll see your St. Monica's and offer up: Cathedral Basilica of the Sacred Heart

Okay, I'll call and raise you St. John the Divine. [:)]

[image]http://media.wnyc.org/media/photologue/photos/cache/stjohndivine_storyslide_image_long_image.jpg[/image]

K.



DaddySatyr -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 5:29:33 AM)

THAT is gorgeous! St. John's is probably the most beautiful church in NYC (Yes, I've been inside St. Patrick's, too).

I've been looking for the one in the Bronx that is in the Riverdale section (My uncle taught there) it's on a sprawling pices of land (yes, in the Bronx !) I don't think it's Lady of Mount Carmel but, I'm beginning to believe that must be it.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



ChatteParfaitt -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 5:29:38 AM)

The Bible is an important theological work. It is also this:


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

The bible is a tool for social control of most humans by a smaller number of humans.



I totally agree with Moonhead's stance on Christianity. The teachings of Christ are to be admired and emulated, IMO.

HOWEVER, using the Bible to fuel your own theological fire, not so much.



DaddySatyr -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 5:32:37 AM)

It's easy to show people the inconsistencies in the Bible. It's easy to show why it shouldn't be invoked, literally; unless you're dealing with a zealot.



Peace and comfort,



Michael



PeonForHer -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 5:33:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I'm a perv, Dear.  I'll bet I've got something in the toybag that makes it possible.  [:D]



Your studies of the cinema are lacking, I feel, LP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c



Iamsemisweet -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 5:56:11 AM)

A great piece of literature, in parts, in other parts rather dull. It has been used as the basis of a truly epic scam that has profited a few and enslaved many. For whatever reason, a lot of people choose to take comfort in it, despite the evidence. Nevertheless, the NT contains some important moral lessons. The world would be a better place if people just followed the lessons and discarded the mythology.
On the subject of churches, the Vatican is one of the most impressive and beautiful places I have ever been. However, the place where the Pope actually gives his addresses looks like a suburban mega-church. I found that surprising.



fucktoyprincess -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 7:19:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
So I'm curious: How do other folks see the Bible? Is it a cultural artifact, a moral guide, a source of inspiration? Does it deserve more regard than, say, the Koran? Should it inform our public policy and, if so, how?

Thoughts?


I see all religious scriptures, regardless of which religion, as cultural artifacts, moral guides and sources of inspiration.

I also don't believe in god as anything more than an idea created by man (and I am choosing man purposely there). But I also believe in freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.

So to the extent that we use any scripture as a moral guide or source for inspiration - this should be an entirely private matter. Scripture to me has no place in the political arena. Politics should be secular and should take into account that most societies today are pluralistic and relying on any one scripture is going to cause difficulty. The rules need to be strict enough to maintain order (murder is illegal) but not so strict as to favor one scripture and approach over another.

If you find these sorts of discussions interesting you really, really should read Christopher Hitchens

http://www.amazon.com/God-Is-Not-Great-Everything/dp/0446697966/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1331219264&sr=8-2-spell

You need not agree with everything he says, but he presents a fascinating history of religion and competing theologies through the lens of secular humanism, and has, I think, some very insightful things to say.

I do think some people really need religion (my mother is in that category). And I don't have any objection to that. If it provides moral structure, cultural pride and personal inspiration to someone as an individual I would never criticize them for needing that in their lives. But there should be respect for the fact that some of us seek that from a different religion or that some of us are able to do the same thing without either believing in god or observing religious ritual at all.

So I am not in the camp of get rid of religion. No, I feel it has a purpose. But it should not really be directly part of the public policy debate. It is possible to discuss any aspect of public policy from first principles (think Platonic dialogue) without having to use any one religion as the guiding principle. And if the Establishment Clause means anything - it really does mean that one religion should not be favored over the other - even if it is the majority religion. Puritans who came to America were fleeing religious persecution because they were a minority. The country was founded on principles of not trying to force the will of the majority on the minority. Many Americans have forgotten that. [sm=2cents.gif]



LadyGold -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 7:32:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You can lie with womankind as with mankind, but not with mankind as with womankind.

Does that help? [:D]

K.

I'm a perv, Dear.  I'll bet I've got something in the toybag that makes it possible.  [:D]



Ummm, last I checked most men don't have vaginas. Does that make his comments clearer?

~LG



fucktoyprincess -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 7:37:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyGold


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
You can lie with womankind as with mankind, but not with mankind as with womankind.

Does that help? [:D]

K.

I'm a perv, Dear.  I'll bet I've got something in the toybag that makes it possible.  [:D]



Ummm, last I checked most men don't have vaginas. Does that make his comments clearer?

~LG


This is how I read it too - i.e., you can't have vaginal sex with an anatomically correct male.



LaTigresse -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 7:41:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

The bible is a tool for social control of most humans by a smaller number of humans.


I think this pretty much sums up my feelings.

The actual text has been so bastardized that I do not see any redeeming qualities in it at all. Not even historically.



Musicmystery -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 8:27:08 AM)

quote:

My son says it is biologically impossible for a man to lie with mankind as with womankind.


Does he need a diagram?

And can you catch visual aids from one?



Musicmystery -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 8:33:22 AM)

dc,

I did once read the entire Bible. It was long ago.

Thing is, the books were cherry picked, rewritten, reexamined so that they would say what authorities at the time wanted them to say. Even the gospels were written 400 years after the fact. It's hard for me to take this as the definitive theological word.

That said, I would not dismiss it either. I have respect for all spiritual texts, and find value in them all.

But they all are attempting to define the infinite, and as such, are going to fall short. It's what I love most about Taoism--it doesn't even try to define Tao.

Or Hinduism--the Upanishads start with "Filled with Brahman are all things that are; filled with Brahman are all things that are not." Wow.

I will say this--after abandoning Christianity, then studying world religions, from "primitive" indigenous to mysticism to Eastern religions, I came back to Christianity and the Bible with this broader view and saw much I hadn't seen before, feeling mostly "Well, yes! Why didn't you guys just say so?"

And that's because religion in the West has been used to control, rather than to free.



Owner59 -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 8:54:22 AM)

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

"The bible is a tool for social control of most humans by a smaller number of humans."


Not sure if humans will ever be free from this.It`s as old as dirt.


Considering the "Bible" has been rewritten,translated and interpreted for thousands of years by primarily men......no one really can say they have a handle on it.


It`s as important as the Holy Quran and as destructive.....given who`s interpreting it.

Ironically,there are probably more Muslims who believe in "The Book" as it`s known in Islam than Christians do...in actual numbers.

I`ll qualify that with "believe " as there are huge numbers of people who are statistically counted as Christians, who aren`t devote or don`t believe at all and billions of Muslims........who do believe in "The Book" or Holy Bible.



wolf223 -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 10:03:57 AM)


The bible was compiled for a roman emperor(pagen) as
there were too many different texts at the time creating discord
in the roman empire.

The OT is just history men trying to explain how something
happened they didn't understand. The NT replaces the old as
a model for human behavior.

In addition to way too many translation and interpretations.



Musicmystery -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 10:05:08 AM)

quote:

just history


I don't think I'd dismiss it so readily.

"Just history" has intrinsic value.




Moonhead -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 11:24:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wolf223


The bible was compiled for a roman emperor(pagen) as
there were too many different texts at the time creating discord
in the roman empire.

The OT is just history men trying to explain how something
happened they didn't understand. The NT replaces the old as
a model for human behavior.

In addition to way too many translation and interpretations.

Constantine (not pagen, wheoever he was) described Christianity as "a religion for slaves and children", but he did convert, albeit only on his deathbed.



BitaTruble -> RE: The Authority of the Bible? (3/8/2012 11:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess



This is how I read it too - i.e., you can't have vaginal sex with an anatomically correct male.


True.. but urethral play is a good substitute. Dittle anyone? [:D]

Okay.. to the OP: Bible - I view it as literature, fictional and edited at that sometimes meant to instill fear, often meant to inspire but unfortunately used most often to scam billions of dollars out of millions upon millions of Earthlings.

Way better than DaVinci Code but not nearly as good as To Kill a Mockingbird.




PeonForHer -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 11:49:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Constantine (not pagen, wheoever he was) described Christianity as "a religion for slaves and children", but he did convert, albeit only on his deathbed.


I think Wolf meant 'a pagan emperor', Moonie.



Moonhead -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 11:51:59 AM)

Ah.
My bad: I wasn't having a go at the lad, and he's quite right that Constantine ruled as a pagan, even if he did die as a Christian.



SternSkipper -> RE: How Do You View The Bible? (3/8/2012 11:55:47 AM)

quote:

(shrimp, anyone)?


I view the bible as a good part of the reason I don't pay as much attention to my catholic upbringing. Too many inconsistencies, and then along come the priests and their high-jinx.
Result - less Catholicism/ more wondering "what if anything would jesus have really thought about these things?".
Most of the gay people I have known I would characterize as "good" Same with shrimp. just not in the same way.



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