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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 1:23:19 PM   
Winterapple


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Rachel is the best.
During 2008 droves of subarban, educated
women ie the women the Republican leadership
are fucking and fathering, voted against Palin
and for Obama. I think a few of the higher
ups at the GOP have some memory of this.
Santorum and Rush have actually done American
women a roundabout service. By going large
with their nuttery they are waking some women
out of their complacency.
The leaders are content for Santorum to blow
himself up. Mitt's their boy. But what they
may not have forseen is all the leaks this
brouhaha has sprung. Conservatives are
bleeding out. Light has been cast on some
of the bills and notions that were flying
under the general radar.
I believe the majority of Americans believe
abortion should be legal. There may be
disagreements about paying for them or when
they can be performed but the majority doesn't
want to go back to the bad ole days.
And that birth control itself is up for grabs
in some quarters is mind boggling to those
who haven't been paying attention.
Women are foolish to assume that their
rights are set in stone. Birth control much
less the right to choose are in the scheme
of things very recent accomplishments.
American women haven't even had the right
to vote for a hundred years.
Sit back or sit it out to your own folly.
Some dudes interpet that rights of man
thing very literally.


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 1:28:12 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

............... By going large
with their nuttery they are waking some women out of their complacency. ...............And that birth control itself is up for grabs in some quarters is mind boggling to those who haven't been paying attention.................Women are foolish to assume that their
rights are set in stone..............

.....Sit back or sit it out to your own folly.




I could not agree more.

(in reply to Winterapple)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 1:31:15 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Well said, Winterapple

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 3:15:34 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Santorum and Rush have actually done American women a roundabout service. By going large with their nuttery they are waking some women out of their complacency.



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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 4:30:36 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Santorum and Rush have actually done American women a roundabout service. By going large with their nuttery they are waking some women out of their complacency.






Me too.

Here in the UK a womans right to choose means just that.

A guy who didnt agree decided to hack into one of the major medical providers web site and is facing the courts. I suspect he will be jailed for breaking IT privacy laws and rightly so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17325182

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 3/10/2012 4:31:29 PM >

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 5:18:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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A little over a year ago, I started this thread...

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3576628

It is sad it took women this long to wake up to the realities. I am glad they finally are, but I saw this coming a long while back. The GOP does not care about women, they do not care about children, they do not care about poverty, they do not care about personal rights.

They care about controlling the masses. That control is achieved by keeping the masses poor, hungry and ignorant. Keeping them that way through decreased education, lack of public assistance and education, forcing them to have children they do not want or can not afford.

Take a look at history of voting rights...

Birth - "All persons born or naturalized" "are citizens" of the US and the US State where they reside (14th Amendment, 1868)
"Race, color, or previous condition of servitude" - (15th Amendment, 1870)
"On account of sex" - (19th Amendment, 1920)

Then we look at women's education in this country....

1945: Harvard Medical School admitted women for the first time.

1969: In 1969, Lillian Lincoln Lambert became the first African-American woman to graduate from Harvard Business School with an MBA

1972: Title IX was passed, making the discrimination of any person based on their sex in any federally-funded educational program(s) illegal

1980: Women and men were enrolled in American colleges in equal numbers for the first time.

Sexual rights....

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973),

The practice of birth control was common throughout the U.S. prior to 1914, when the movement to legalize contraception began. Longstanding techniques included the rhythm method, withdrawal, diaphragms, contraceptive sponges, condoms, prolonged breastfeeding, and spermicides.

Contraception was legal in the United States throughout most of the nineteenth century, but in the 1870s a social purity movement grew in strength, aimed at outlawing vice in general, and prostitution and obscenity in particular.

Comstock and his allies also took aim at the libertarians and utopians who comprised the free love movement – an initiative to promote sexual freedom, equality for women, and abolition of marriage.[20] The free love proponents were the only group to actively oppose the Comstock laws in the nineteenth century, setting the stage for the birth control movement.[21]

The efforts of the free love movement were not successful and, at the beginning of the twentieth century, federal and state governments began to enforce the Comstock laws more rigorously.[21] In response, contraception went underground, but it was not extinguished. The number of publications on the topic dwindled, and advertisements, if they were found at all, used euphemisms such as "marital aids" or "hygienic devices". Drug stores continued to sell condoms as "rubber goods" and cervical caps as "womb supporters"

Sanger appealed her 1917 conviction and won a mixed victory in 1918 in a unanimous decision by the New York Court of Appeals written by Judge Frederick E. Crane. The court's opinion upheld her conviction, but indicated that the courts would be willing to permit contraception if prescribed by doctors. This decision was only applicable within New York, where it opened the door for birth control clinics, under physician supervision, to be established

The birth control movement received an unexpected boost during World War I, as a result of a crisis the U.S. military experienced when many of its soldiers were diagnosed with syphilis or gonorrhea. The military undertook an extensive education campaign, focusing on abstinence, but also offering some contraceptive guidance.[74] The military, under pressure from purity advocates, did not distribute condoms, or even endorse their use, making the U.S. the only military force in World War I that did not supply condoms to its troops. When U.S. soldiers were in Europe, they found rubber condoms readily available, and when they returned to America, they continued to use condoms as their preferred method of birth control

Although clinics became more common in the late 1920s, the movement still faced significant challenges: Large sectors of the medical community were still resistant to birth control; birth control advocates were blacklisted by the radio industry; and state and federal laws – though generally not enforced – still outlawed contraception

In the United States, a flurry of legal actions in the 1960s and 1970s changed the landscape of reproductive rights: in 1965, the Supreme Court ruled in Griswold v. Connecticut that birth control was legal;[150] in 1970, Congress finally removed references to contraception from federal anti-obscenity laws;[151] and in 1973, the Roe v. Wade decision legalized abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy.[

In the early 1950s, philanthropist Katharine McCormick provided funding for biologist Gregory Pincus to develop the birth control pill, which was approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1960.

According to the United States Department of Health and Human Services, publicly funded family planning saves nearly $4 in Medicaid expenses for every $1 spent on services

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_control_movement_in_the_United_States

Just snippets from the link above. Its been a long battle for women. The right to vote, the right to education, the right to birth control.

How many of these are the GOP aiming at these days?

For the poor... all but the vote.

How long before they target that as well?

Its just utterly disgusting



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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 6:44:54 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Brilliant vid from Rachel, Id like to thank those cons who suggested her
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#46675930


whew, I listened to this for, how long? Over fifteen minutes it seems to take Maddow before she thought she had made a solid case for her position. I sense anything that takes that much talking "up" is mostly snake oil, but a good job of selling snake oil I must admit. She is so confident and smiles the way a snake oil salesman confidently tells you this poison is good for what ails you today


"Don't tread on me".

This statement first used during the American Revolutionary war concisely summed up the reason for this revolution, a rebellion from an overreaching government requiring a free people to do something they did not believe in simply because that government thought it could. In this case it was taxation of private citizens and private enterprises for purposes against the beliefs of these same people. It was not the burden of the taxation but the purpose of that taxation that triggered the revolution.

This "mandate", conceptually much like the "mandate" from King George III on the American colonies, requires private organizations to provide contraceptive coverage. This is a tax because it is mandated; it is a tax because payment is required by Government. It is a tax imposed on a free people for a purpose they do not belief in and so they as a free people must refuse that mandate. This bill Maddow describes as "anti-contraception" is a manifestation of that refusal by a free people to follow the dictate of an overreaching government. It is the obligation of free people to do so. It was attempted for that reason only and not as a war on women. The bill is appropriate in that it confirms the right of private organizations in refusing to support actions contrary to their core beliefs.

Three things about this makes me worried. One. That it was necessary to pass such a bill to support rights we already have. Two. That a President is behind the effort to socialize America and socialization inherently takes away a free people's right to control their own destiny, good or bad. Three, there is a news organization dedicated to marketing snake oil.





< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/10/2012 6:51:39 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 6:52:15 PM   
Lucylastic


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Welcome to the 21st century...where women and slaves have rights. You cant take them back, no matter how hard you try without people getting pissed.
Now consiering your posting history, I dont expect you to get it, and you have proven that assessment correctly
The mandate to take womens rights from them isnt the issue then?
thankyou for your opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19u8-0Hxr04

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 6:59:27 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Welcome to the 21st century...where women and slaves have rights. You cant take them back, no matter how hard you try without people getting pissed.
Now consiering your posting history, I dont expect you to get it, and you have proven that assessment correctly
The mandate to take womens rights from them isnt the issue then?
thankyou for your opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19u8-0Hxr04



I get it. I also get that you can debate with reason and logic and truth as you see it or attack the person

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:04:36 PM   
Lucylastic


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Feel free to report what you believe to be an attack.
You missed the "question"
What a surprise

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:09:34 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

Welcome to the 21st century...where women and slaves have rights. You cant take them back, no matter how hard you try without people getting pissed.
Now consiering your posting history, I dont expect you to get it, and you have proven that assessment correctly
The mandate to take womens rights from them isnt the issue then?


Now, what about the 21st century has, because it is the 21st century, has removed the right of a free people, no, better still the obligation of a free people to refuse the "mandate" of their government to pay for something against their core beliefs, thereby voiding their right to liberty? Mandate is contrary to Liberty

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?

Are you sure you have not confused "entitlement" with "right" ? It is not the same of course.



P.S. I saw your last just now. Rest assured I am not shaken by such replies and don't need to call on staff members to curb your personal attack but others share this forum as well as staff members and certainly they are free, I love that word, free to take exception as they see fit just as I am free not to do so. I supposed my question would naturally be: if you are so right then why must to reply in such a way?

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/10/2012 7:16:12 PM >


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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:19:23 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Now, what about the 21st century has, because it is the 21st century, has removed the right of a free people, no, better still the obligation of a free people to refuse the "mandate" of their government to pay for something against their core beliefs, thereby voiding their right to liberty? Mandate is contrary to Liberty


If you want the people to be free of this mandate, then make hospitals and Drs free from the mandate to treat everyone who walks in the ER door with an emergency.

quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Amazing that women had to fight for those rights, isnt it? Women were denied the right to vote... did you know that? Women were denied the right to own property... amazing huh. Women were denied the right to an education, until the government stepped in. There should be human rights... instead the establishment decided the Constitution meant white men only, then men only. Women had to fight to get recognized.

Why? Because men decided women were beneath them, needed to be protected, taken care of... exploited, used, abused and kept under a man's thumb.

Yes, we have come a long way, Baby... and we aint going back.

quote:

Are you sure you have not confused "entitlement" with "right" ? It is not the same of course.


What "right" do you have as a white male to deny me the right to anything you have access too?

So you can take that "entitlement" notion and... well.. I am being nicer these days.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:26:06 PM   
Lucylastic


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yawwwwwwwwwwwn it doesnt forbid it in the constitution either.
tired and old argument.
No, its a right... except in america, out of all the industrialised countries, that men without honour decide what "entitlement" means. it has a fluid meaning apparently.
Which is why I dismiss with contempt the excuses.

you presume way to much of course.
The core mandate is for all women
NOT just Christians. Christians have NO right or entitlement to dictate what ANY woman can and cannot do regarding their sexual health just because it doesnt fit their doctrine.
They think they do..they are clutching hold of it as tight as they can and trying to strangle more but as 99% of all women use BC, they are MUCH mistaken.
Now 70 people die a day frm being murdered because of your 2nd amendment.. Im not expecting any one to give up their rights, but the rationalizing is beyond a joke now.
My last post to you tonite as I have a life... bleat and attempt to rationalise it all you want. my dear , because, I always give your thoughts the same regard.Shame that eh....


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:27:12 PM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Now, what about the 21st century has, because it is the 21st century, has removed the right of a free people, no, better still the obligation of a free people to refuse the "mandate" of their government to pay for something against their core beliefs, thereby voiding their right to liberty? Mandate is contrary to Liberty


If you want the people to be free of this mandate, then make hospitals and Drs free from the mandate to treat everyone who walks in the ER door with an emergency.

quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Amazing that women had to fight for those rights, isnt it? Women were denied the right to vote... did you know that? Women were denied the right to own property... amazing huh. Women were denied the right to an education, until the government stepped in. There should be human rights... instead the establishment decided the Constitution meant white men only, then men only. Women had to fight to get recognized.

Why? Because men decided women were beneath them, needed to be protected, taken care of... exploited, used, abused and kept under a man's thumb.

Yes, we have come a long way, Baby... and we aint going back.

quote:

Are you sure you have not confused "entitlement" with "right" ? It is not the same of course.


What "right" do you have as a white male to deny me the right to anything you have access too?

So you can take that "entitlement" notion and... well.. I am being nicer these days.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Now, what about the 21st century has, because it is the 21st century, has removed the right of a free people, no, better still the obligation of a free people to refuse the "mandate" of their government to pay for something against their core beliefs, thereby voiding their right to liberty? Mandate is contrary to Liberty


If you want the people to be free of this mandate, then make hospitals and Drs free from the mandate to treat everyone who walks in the ER door with an emergency.

quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Amazing that women had to fight for those rights, isnt it? Women were denied the right to vote... did you know that? Women were denied the right to own property... amazing huh. Women were denied the right to an education, until the government stepped in. There should be human rights... instead the establishment decided the Constitution meant white men only, then men only. Women had to fight to get recognized.

Why? Because men decided women were beneath them, needed to be protected, taken care of... exploited, used, abused and kept under a man's thumb.

Yes, we have come a long way, Baby... and we aint going back.

quote:

Are you sure you have not confused "entitlement" with "right" ? It is not the same of course.


What "right" do you have as a white male to deny me the right to anything you have access too?

So you can take that "entitlement" notion and... well.. I am being nicer these days.

Im being nice too:) * bats eyelashes*


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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:27:25 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Perhaps you missed the 19th Amendment, which gave women nationwide the right to vote--something denied to many of them before 1920.

You're surely aware of the countless ways in which women have faced discrimination.

I'm always intrigued by how basic civil rights become "special rights" when someone other than a straight white male aspires to them.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:31:31 PM   
Lucylastic


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Thanks you two, Tazzy and DC< I learned something tonite:)
MWUAH awesome posts
now im outtie here for now


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 7:47:29 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Brilliant vid from Rachel, Id like to thank those cons who suggested her
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#46675930

Finally got around to watching this(beautiful day spent with my nephew)thanks for the link Lucy,I sat my niece and my sister down and replayed it.
Has the Democratic party just realized how this game is played.Wedge politics never looked so good,make the Republican defend this "war" on woman...

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 8:22:10 PM   
Winterapple


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One of the arguments against birth control was
a racist one. There was paranoia that it would
destroy white hegemony by making whites
the minority. This was one of the reasons
Teddy Roosevelt a birth control opponent
opposed it.
Meanwhile, women especially poor ones were
dying in childbirth, dying from illnesses
brought on by pregnancy or just dying from
having their health broken from to many
pregnancies.
Modern women and men should read some
of the oral histories from that time.
A time not so long ago. Stories of women
begging doctors to help them and being
told to ask their husbands to sleep on the
roof at night.
I don't think the race thing was entirely
a American hang up. Europeans had some
if the same anxiety.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 8:54:12 PM   
tweakabelle


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Staggering. Simply staggering. Bring back the Middle Ages!

This stuff is just unbelievable. All of it cynical politics that has nothing to do with morality or health and an awful lot to do with pandering to a looney Right theocratic agenda.

It also seems to be incredibly naive politics. You can't gain office in a democracy by declaring war on half the electorate. Are these people that stupid that they don't realise women make up half the voters out there?

This vicious attack on womens' rights reveals the contempt the Right has for the rights of women, how shallow their commitment to human rights for all is. Poor old God needs protection from His (sic) 'followers'.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/10/2012 8:57:09 PM >


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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 10:03:00 PM   
Owner59


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