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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/10/2012 10:29:18 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

This "mandate", conceptually much like the "mandate" from King George III on the American colonies, requires private organizations to provide contraceptive coverage. This is a tax because it is mandated; it is a tax because payment is required by Government. It is a tax imposed on a free people for a purpose they do not belief in and so they as a free people must refuse that mandate. This bill Maddow describes as "anti-contraception" is a manifestation of that refusal by a free people to follow the dictate of an overreaching government. It is the obligation of free people to do so. It was attempted for that reason only and not as a war on women. The bill is appropriate in that it confirms the right of private organizations in refusing to support actions contrary to their core beliefs.


OH puh-lllleeeasseee! Incorporating contraceptive services in health insurance is a "tax" that must be "opposed by a free people", an "obligation ...[to resist] the dictate of an overreaching government". Really?

Health insurance must cover legitimate health needs and matters. It's perfectly appropriate for government to set minimum standards and regulate health insurance policies to ensure they meet these minimum standards. Governments would be failing in their obligations towards the citizens that elect them if they failed to meet this obligation.

Are you saying contraception, fertility control and reproductive health are not health matters? Reproductive health is an entire branch of medical science. It directly affects the health of tens of millions of American women, and indirectly their children and families health too. And you are claiming that it is a tax burden, that it is not a legitimate part of health insurance!

Sorry your argument is farcical. Big on flowery rhetoric, devoid of sense.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/10/2012 10:42:42 PM >

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 4:47:21 AM   
Owner59


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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 5:44:23 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

This statement first used during the American Revolutionary war concisely summed up the reason for this revolution, a rebellion from an overreaching government requiring a free people to do something they did not believe in simply because that government thought it could. In this case it was taxation of private citizens and private enterprises for purposes against the beliefs of these same people. It was not the burden of the taxation but the purpose of that taxation that triggered the revolution.


Its ironic that most of the taxes you mention were raised to cover the expense of defending the settlers. More so that almost everyone who shares your view has no qualms paying for your large standing army through taxes no less. Talk about double standards.

No one has yest tried to answer why my often repeated question as to why defending the US from the Taliban is any different from defending your peole from cancer. Care to have a shot ?

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 8:46:16 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Just snippets from the link above. Its been a long battle for women. The right to vote, the right to education, the right to birth control. How many of these are the GOP aiming at these days?

For the poor... all but the vote.

How long before they target that as well?

Its just utterly disgusting


They have. I've started a new thread: GOP Voter Suppression Plan: Seven Tactics To Block Your Vote in 2012

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 9:53:28 AM   
Arturas


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quote:

Are you saying contraception, fertility control and reproductive health are not health matters? Reproductive health is an entire branch of medical science. It directly affects the health of tens of millions of American women, and indirectly their children and families health too. And you are claiming that it is a tax burden, that it is not a legitimate part of health insurance!


First. Thank you for the reply.

On your first quesiton, they are indeed health matters but t they are not rights. My reply was to a person who predicated their OP on the belief there is something called "womens rights" and echoed the description of a bill to protect our liberties as an "attack on women".

Who decides what is "legitimate insurance"? It is me and you individually in the marketplace. For example, I decide the insurance coverage I pay for based n my ability or desire to pay a certain amount. I also would avoid working for companies that did not share my value system and that is called liberty. That is called freedom of choice.

I am getting the impression you believe legitimate insurance coverage is something for Congress to decide. Imagine that.
Now, I am not an expert on insurance and I don't need to be. This is not about insurance coverage. This is about liberty and treading on my consitutional liberties by making me or any other entity purchase something contrary to my beliefs. Such plans do fall into the "don't tread on me" scenario. They strongly fall in the "Un-Constitutional" category just as the mandate for Obama Care does. So I think we see a pattern there of Un-Constitutional actions on the part of the Obama administration. "just saying".

Sorry I cannot write more now but it is a beautiful Sunday afternoon.
On a related note, the Contitution does put up a "perfect wall" between church and state. Meaning the church cannot dictate to the government and vice versa.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/11/2012 9:55:25 AM >

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 9:57:08 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		" echoed the description of a bill to protect our liberties "
womens liberties are not protected..In fact they are being taken away...
DO you see that or not?

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 10:12:11 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

This statement first used during the American Revolutionary war concisely summed up the reason for this revolution, a rebellion from an overreaching government requiring a free people to do something they did not believe in simply because that government thought it could. In this case it was taxation of private citizens and private enterprises for purposes against the beliefs of these same people. It was not the burden of the taxation but the purpose of that taxation that triggered the revolution.


Its ironic that most of the taxes you mention were raised to cover the expense of defending the settlers. More so that almost everyone who shares your view has no qualms paying for your large standing army through taxes no less. Talk about double standards.

No one has yest tried to answer why my often repeated question as to why defending the US from the Taliban is any different from defending your peole from cancer. Care to have a shot ?

To be fair to the Founders Polite,the phrase that whipped up the Revolution was "no taxation without representation".We may,at this point in time,have faulty representation,but we do have it...and any fault that is there is ours alone.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 11:54:20 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

Meaning the church cannot dictate to the government and vice versa.


No, its not vice versa... it was to keep the church out of the state. The government dictates to the church all the time.

Now, if you want to talk about unconstitutionality.. why is the Catholic Church allowed to weild such power that IT can dictate what happens in my womb?

quote:

I am getting the impression you believe legitimate insurance coverage is something for Congress to decide. Imagine that.


It is something Congress can decide. Imagine that.

quote:

This is not about insurance coverage. This is about liberty and treading on my consitutional liberties by making me or any other entity purchase something contrary to my beliefs.


Then never utilize the health care system without insurance... shall we micro chip everyone with their insurance information, or lack of? You can be scanned at the scene of an accident... no insurance.. sorry buddy... and the ambulance drives off empty.

I eagerly await the ruling of the SC on this.. dont you?

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:14:29 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Perhaps you missed the 19th Amendment, which gave women nationwide the right to vote--something denied to many of them before 1920.

You're surely aware of the countless ways in which women have faced discrimination.

I'm always intrigued by how basic civil rights become "special rights" when someone other than a straight white male aspires to them.


Thanks for the reply.

Yes. I've read the 19th. It gave women the same right men had to vote. How does that suggest the fictious "right of contraception" is supported by the adoption of the 19th amendment?

"You're surely aware...". Please explain how past discrimination figures into this discussion? Are you saying not paying for women's contraceptives in an insurance policy is discrimination because, what, because men have theirs paid for already, or what?

Thanks ahead of time.
Arturas

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:16:34 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

This statement first used during the American Revolutionary war concisely summed up the reason for this revolution, a rebellion from an overreaching government requiring a free people to do something they did not believe in simply because that government thought it could. In this case it was taxation of private citizens and private enterprises for purposes against the beliefs of these same people. It was not the burden of the taxation but the purpose of that taxation that triggered the revolution.


Its ironic that most of the taxes you mention were raised to cover the expense of defending the settlers. More so that almost everyone who shares your view has no qualms paying for your large standing army through taxes no less. Talk about double standards.

No one has yest tried to answer why my often repeated question as to why defending the US from the Taliban is any different from defending your peole from cancer. Care to have a shot ?



quote:

defending your peole from cancer. Care to have a shot ?


Most certainly not. But, thank you for the kind offer.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:18:51 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

" echoed the description of a bill to protect our liberties "
womens liberties are not protected..In fact they are being taken away...
DO you see that or not?


No. Can you elaborate on those being taken away? Can you ibe more specific? I myself would very much like to know what they are.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:20:45 PM   
Owner59


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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:21:27 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		The right not to die of septicaemia because the person who performed your abortion with a coat hanger couldn't afford to put it in an autoclave first, for a start.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:22:56 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

We don`t have a pill for willful ignorance.


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I adore being ignored



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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:30:20 PM   
Arturas


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quote:

What "right" do you have as a white male to deny me the right to anything you have access too?

So you can take that "entitlement" notion and... well.. I am being nicer these days.


Thank you again for replying.

Do you imply that if I was a black woman I could deny you the "right" to something I would have access too?

Do you suppose I have access to whatever that was because someone gave it too me or did I work for it and therefore could enjoy the fruit of my labor which I certainly have a right to? Does that mean that because I purchase you something you did not work for and so subtract from that I did work for that I have lost the right to those things I earned? I suppose if it actually goes that way I would stop working and get access to something someone else has, but ..who? Who woulld be left to pay for it?

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:40:15 PM   
kalikshama


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Status: offline 		President Barack Obama's decision to require most employers to cover birth control and insurers to offer it at no cost has created a firestorm of controversy. But the central mandate—that most employers have to cover preventative care for women—has been law for over a decade. This point has been completely lost in the current controversy, as Republican presidential candidates and social conservatives claim that Obama has launched a war on religious liberty and the Catholic Church.

Despite the longstanding precedent, "no one screamed" until now, said Sara Rosenbaum, a health law expert at George Washington University.

In December 2000, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that companies that provided prescription drugs to their employees but didn't provide birth control were in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on the basis of sex. That opinion, which the George W. Bush administration did nothing to alter or withdraw when it took office the next month, is still in effect today—and because it relies on Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, it applies to all employers with 15 or more employees. Employers that don't offer prescription coverage or don't offer insurance at all are exempt, because they treat men and women equally—but under the EEOC's interpretation of the law, you can't offer other preventative care coverage without offering birth control coverage, too.

"It was, we thought at the time, a fairly straightforward application of Title VII principles," a top former EEOC official who was involved in the decision told Mother Jones. "All of these plans covered Viagra immediately, without thinking, and they were still declining to cover prescription contraceptives. It's a little bit jaw-dropping to see what is going on now…There was some press at the time but we issued guidances that were far, far more controversial."

read more: http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/controversial-obama-birth-control-rule-already-law

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:45:43 PM   
Lucylastic


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Watch the video and come up with the number of bills pertaining to womens issues being brought about by repub states and the GOP ... Did you hear of the blunt amendment, or the virginia trans vaginal ultrasound expectation before they changed it to JUST forcing a woman to see and hear the fetus before she is allowed to have a legal medical procedure,the personhood bills in various states or the birth control issue , or the Dakotas, Kansas, Arizona, oklahoma, missouri etc and ad nauseam, .
De funding planned parenthood, the tightening up of regulations, not allowing doctors to tell women if they have a child with a birth defect, because it promotes abortion...

Ive even found a little sketch thing for you..

with a small hint from that "page " By all accounts, 2011 was a watershed year for challenges to women's reproductive rights. State legislators introduced more than 1,100 anti-abortion provisions and had enacted 135 of them by year's end. Seven states either fully defunded or made moves toward defunding Planned Parenthood, which provides basic health care, contraception, breast cancer and STD screenings to millions of low-income women each year.
now does that help??? cos Im done with doing research for the lazy.
or just browse any of the last ten days or so threads.

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 12:49:20 PM   
erieangel


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Status: offline 		The new mandate states that contraceptives should be offered co-pay free. I think its more about Obama having set the mandate than the mandate itself.


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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 1:00:11 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

What is this "womens rights" you suggest women by themselves must have? I have searched the Constitution and the Bill of Rights find nothing specific to that. Are you suggesting women need special rights? Why?


Perhaps you missed the 19th Amendment, which gave women nationwide the right to vote--something denied to many of them before 1920.



Thanks for the reply.

Yes. I've read the 19th. It gave women the same right men had to vote. How does that suggest the fictious "right of contraception" is supported by the adoption of the 19th amendment?

Arturas


Actually Arturas is right. That's why the ERA bill came into being. The fact that it was allowed a slow death was a harbinger of the current events, I suppose.

Tazzy,

Last year I thought you were being an alarmist. My apologies.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 3/11/2012 1:20:27 PM >

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RE: Maddow takes a look at GOP war on women - 3/11/2012 1:05:05 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

The new mandate states that contraceptives should be offered co-pay free. I think its more about Obama having set the mandate than the mandate itself.


Yes.

Note: ALL preventative care will be co-pay free.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

# Co-payments, co-insurance, and deductibles are to be eliminated for select health care insurance benefits considered to be part of an "essential benefits package"[28] for Level A or Level B preventive care.[29]

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