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RE: Study: Women satisfied when their partner experienc... - 3/13/2012 1:56:08 AM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I don't see quite how the secondary questionnaires could assess the truth of the answers on the initial questionnaire relating to the emotional states of their partners, unless their own emotional state was similar to that which they were asserting about the partner but that would not negate truth value.

There might be some lingering misunderstanding. Both partners reviewed the same segments of the conversation. For each each segment, they both filled out two questionnaires: one representing what their they thought their partner was feeling during the recorded segment and the other recalling what their own feelings had been when the segment was recorded. The authors then took what the woman thought the man's feelings had been during the segment and compared it to what the man actually reported he was feeling at the time, i.e. the "truth." Similarly, what the man thought the woman was feeling was compared against the emotions the woman actually reported feeling during the same segment. This enabled a test of empathic accuracy and was the only use of the questionnaires on emotions. Note that there is no data presented about what the recorded emotions actually were; what participants were feeling during the segments is irrelevant to the study, only the participants' accuracy in judging their partners' emotions is being examined. Does that make more sense?

Use of the electronic device was limited to selecting particularly emotionally-charged moments (i.e. the HAMs) from a longer original conversation for further analysis with the questionnaires. That was the extent of its application; no data or analysis of data from the device are reported.

quote:

If the above is true, that empathy was the sole (rather than predominant) element being analysed in the study, then I would appreciate a quote from the study to verify that. As I understand it, they would have been unable to measure statistically how for example women expressed more satisfaction over the attempts of their partners to be empathetic, while their satisfaction levels were less strongly linked with actual empathetic accuracy, if the study did not factor in the personal feelings of each partner beyond that of empathy.

As stated in the abstract's first line, the study was only intended to examine links between three categories: existing relationship satisfaction, empathic accuracy, and perceived empathic effort. The full matrix of correlation coefficients from the study data is available in Table 1. Those are the only links for which data is presented. Note the lack of anything about the emotions themselves.

One thing that I think may be confusing you, and perhaps the Telegraph, is the the meaning and use of the "relationship satisfaction" measure. That measure was not related to the questionnaire about emotions or, indeed – providing I'm interpreting it correctly – to the experimental, emotionally charged conversation at all. The level of relationship satisfaction was determined using the Locke–Wallace Marital Adjustment Test apparently commonly used for the purpose, probably with a form very similar to this one. Given that the test was chosen, in part, for test-retest stability and that the methodology does not indicate it was given with each HAM segment (as it does with the other measures) the implication seems to be that this survey was administered just once, to determine a participant's existing, long-term satisfaction with their relationship. This long-term measure of relationship satisfaction does not seem intended to reflect any short-term effects of the experimental interaction. Instead, based on the idea that the experimental snapshots are a representation of the ongoing empathic accuracy and perceptions of empathic effort present in the relationships, the study looked for correlations between those factors and the participants' reported long-term satisfaction with their relationships.

I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps the study actually was investigating how, after years of marriage, 30 seconds would make a couple from Bryn Mawr suddenly reconsider who they would marry if they had their life to live over again…

quote:

I can see that the article headline might be misleading but not that it makes no sense, for the same reasons that I explained previously. It uses words like "happy" in an unqualified fashion when it should relate to satisfaction within relationships.

It is actually the "when" in the headline that is more problematic than the "happy." To support the claim, it would be necessary to show that there was some significant correlation between a woman's happiness (or, to fix that bit, her satisfaction with her relationship) and her partner being upset. No correlation presented supports that. In fact, since negative emotions themselves are not a category examined for correlations in the study, it's not possible to even attempt to draw that conclusion from the data.

What you can do (and what the paper did), is to conclude that women's satisfaction with their relationships appears to be influenced by their ability to accurately read their partners' negative emotions. A higher accuracy is linked with greater satisfaction. Note that this has nothing to do with whether or not women feel satisfied when seeing their partners upset. It's quite possible that they become upset themselves in those instances. Or perhaps they giggle in sadistic glee. There's simply no evidence either way. All the data shows is that, if a woman can accurately tell if her partner is upset, she is more likely to be satisfied with the relationship. That may be an interesting result, and it's different from the situation with men, where being able to accurately detect women's negative emotions didn't substantially contribute to relationship satisfaction for men – but it's a far cry from what the Telegraph article seems to claim.

quote:

My own view is that it is unreasonable to expect the same standards of accuracy as one would have in a academic journal but that should not preclude the body of the article being a proper representation of the truth, and in that respect I think the article does quite well.

While I certainly don't hold popular publications to the same standard of depth or precision as an academic journal, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect general accuracy in the information that is published. If a reporter lacks the time or background to understand academic publications, they really shouldn't be reporting on them. If the Telegraph just used a sensational headline, I might roll my eyes, but I wouldn't take any particular issue with it. In this case, however, I think it's worse than that. The novel additions to the press release serve to mischaracterize the research to the point that a reader will likely take away something very different from what the study supported. I don't see value in that type of science reporting. The paper, or at least its readers, would have been better served simply republishing the press release than having Mr. Orr attempt to edit it.

(in reply to Anaxagoras)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Study: Women satisfied when their partner experienc... - 3/13/2012 7:05:28 AM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep
There might be some lingering misunderstanding. Both partners reviewed the same segments of the conversation. For each each segment, they both filled out two questionnaires: one representing what their they thought their partner was feeling during the recorded segment and the other recalling what their own feelings had been when the segment was recorded. The authors then took what the woman thought the man's feelings had been during the segment and compared it to what the man actually reported he was feeling at the time, i.e. the "truth." Similarly, what the man thought the woman was feeling was compared against the emotions the woman actually reported feeling during the same segment. This enabled a test of empathic accuracy and was the only use of the questionnaires on emotions. Note that there is no data presented about what the recorded emotions actually were; what participants were feeling during the segments is irrelevant to the study, only the participants' accuracy in judging their partners' emotions is being examined. Does that make more sense?

I doubt there is any lingering misunderstanding on my part because re. your truth questionaire comment, you stated in post 38: "After the conversation, the participants were asked to guess what their partner was feeling during a few especially charged segments of the conversation. To enable a check on the accuracy of these guesses, they were also asked to fill out an identical questionnaire expressing their own feelings during the same segment of the conversation." - the langauge used in that passage suggests the same partner asked to fill out a questionaire guessing their partner's feelings and their own. Hence the point about their own emotions not validating that of what they preceived in their partner. I can only go by what I read in the article and the parts I read in the study. In Post 36, I quoted from the report re. the HAMs which stated each partner was given questionaires to register their own feelings and those of their partner. I assume you will say the questionaire for their own feelings was only for their own input in the HAM but that absolute separation isn't obvious. I think we will have to agree to differ on the point unless you can quote a passage from the report unambiguously saying the opposite.

quote:


Use of the electronic device was limited to selecting particularly emotionally-charged moments (i.e. the HAMs) from a longer original conversation for further analysis with the questionnaires. That was the extent of its application; no data or analysis of data from the device are reported.

That does seem to have been the purpose of using the electronic devices. I mentioned them in the post in the context of a quote by the Telegraph stating that that was their purpose.

quote:

quote:

If the above is true, that empathy was the sole (rather than predominant) element being analysed in the study, then I would appreciate a quote from the study to verify that. As I understand it, they would have been unable to measure statistically how for example women expressed more satisfaction over the attempts of their partners to be empathetic, while their satisfaction levels were less strongly linked with actual empathetic accuracy, if the study did not factor in the personal feelings of each partner beyond that of empathy.

As stated in the abstract's first line, the study was only intended to examine links between three categories: existing relationship satisfaction, empathic accuracy, and perceived empathic effort. The full matrix of correlation coefficients from the study data is available in Table 1. Those are the only links for which data is presented. Note the lack of anything about the emotions themselves.

In my point above I didn't mention emotion other than satisfaction which arguably isn't strictly an emotion. My point was about the clearly divergent levels of satisfaction women had over two different areas of empathy, which suggests to my mind that this impulse was measured.

In the abstract I couldn't find any comment about the study being only about empathy to the absolute exclusion of their own feedback on satisfaction - Your assertion in post 38 was: "All they cared about was how accurate each participant's empathy was with respect to positive and negative emotions in their partner." . I replied "If the above is true, that empathy was the sole (rather than predominant) element being analysed in the study, then I would appreciate a quote from the study to verify that."

quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep
One thing that I think may be confusing you, and perhaps the Telegraph, is the the meaning and use of the "relationship satisfaction" measure. That measure was not related to the questionnaire about emotions or, indeed – providing I'm interpreting it correctly – to the experimental, emotionally charged conversation at all. The level of relationship satisfaction was determined using the Locke–Wallace Marital Adjustment Test apparently commonly used for the purpose, probably with a form very similar to this one. Given that the test was chosen, in part, for test-retest stability and that the methodology does not indicate it was given with each HAM segment (as it does with the other measures) the implication seems to be that this survey was administered just once, to determine a participant's existing, long-term satisfaction with their relationship. This long-term measure of relationship satisfaction does not seem intended to reflect any short-term effects of the experimental interaction. Instead, based on the idea that the experimental snapshots are a representation of the ongoing empathic accuracy and perceptions of empathic effort present in the relationships, the study looked for correlations between those factors and the participants' reported long-term satisfaction with their relationships.

I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps the study actually was investigating how, after years of marriage, 30 seconds would make a couple from Bryn Mawr suddenly reconsider who they would marry if they had their life to live over again…

I disagree. Another part of the study suggests that variables on satisfaction at least were considered: http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/fam-ofp-cohen.pdf

quote:

To test the relative contribution of empathic accuracy and perceived empathic effort to self and partner’s satisfaction, we used the Actor–Partner Interdependence Model (APIM; Kashy & Kenny, 2000), which analyzes data from both partners simultaneously and thereby helps to distinguish between the individual and dyadic influences of each empathy variable on each partner’s satisfaction. For example, a woman’s empathic accuracy may lead her to feel more satisfied in the relationship (an individual effect)
and/or it may lead her husband to feel understood and more satisfied in the relationship (a dyadic or partner effect).


_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to shallowdeep)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Study: Women satisfied when their partner experienc... - 3/13/2012 7:39:58 AM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
I can see that the article headline might be misleading but not that it makes no sense, for the same reasons that I explained previously. It uses words like "happy" in an unqualified fashion when it should relate to satisfaction within relationships.

It is actually the "when" in the headline that is more problematic than the "happy." To support the claim, it would be necessary to show that there was some significant correlation between a woman's happiness (or, to fix that bit, her satisfaction with her relationship) and her partner being upset. No correlation presented supports that. In fact, since negative emotions themselves are not a category examined for correlations in the study, it's not possible to even attempt to draw that conclusion from the data.

I disagree, it does seem that satisfaction variables were taken into account as I noted in the post just above. They wouldn't have to look at negative emotions (I assume you mean in the preceiver since they looked at both negative and positive HAMs), merely a variable level of satisfaction to determine such a thing that could be described as happiness.

quote:


quote:

My own view is that it is unreasonable to expect the same standards of accuracy as one would have in a academic journal but that should not preclude the body of the article being a proper representation of the truth, and in that respect I think the article does quite well.

While I certainly don't hold popular publications to the same standard of depth or precision as an academic journal, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect general accuracy in the information that is published. If a reporter lacks the time or background to understand academic publications, they really shouldn't be reporting on them. If the Telegraph just used a sensational headline, I might roll my eyes, but I wouldn't take any particular issue with it. In this case, however, I think it's worse than that. The novel additions to the press release serve to mischaracterize the research to the point that a reader will likely take away something very different from what the study supported. I don't see value in that type of science reporting. The paper, or at least its readers, would have been better served simply republishing the press release than having Mr. Orr attempt to edit it.

As I noted (such as in post 40) there is significant areas of accuracy in the article with regard to the areas we agree on in the study itself. The Telegraph's reading of the study in other respects is a matter of debate. My view is that there is some validity to the assertions of the article as I stated above but they enhanced certain elements of it, by using a word like "enjoy". Perhaps it was not even intentional due to the input of headline writers and editors writing the bylines so that isn't necessarily a reflection on James Orr himself.

_____________________________

"That woman, as nature has created her, and man at present is educating her, is man's enemy. She can only be his slave or his despot, but never his companion." (Venus in Furs)

(in reply to shallowdeep)
Profile   Post #: 43
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