Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/21/2012 6:19:35 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
I posted that I felt bad for the soldier`s family as well as for the Afghans involved......got pulled I think cuz I can`t find it.

I think it`s unfair to say that Americans weren`t upset for the victims.That`s part of the outrage.As well,the damage done to the NATO mission.

I think most folks(in both countries)want this to fade quickly without causing more problems.

I also think it`s the right move,not to change the withdrawal time line.

It`s vitally important that we don`t linger there and also vitally important that we doen`t rush out.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/21/2012 6:20:26 PM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/21/2012 10:37:13 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I think it`s unfair to say that Americans weren`t upset for the victims.That`s part of the outrage.As well,the damage done to the NATO mission.


Obviously I can't speak for all Americans...only myself. But I wasn't upset at all. I find it really hard to get upset at this particular loss of life in a country where, just days before, 6 Americans died as a result of violent protests over the destruction of a book. That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians - 3/21/2012 10:55:37 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

This guy is a fucking criminal, not a soldier. They need to turn him over to the Afghan justice system.

No, he's not.  He's a man.

Don't you see what happened here?  The guy snapped.  There's a shock.  They rotate these people in and out of that hell hole until they are at the brink of their own sanity.  I know I'm not strong enough inside to do it.  Yet, they are doing it everyday. 

Steven was right.  The fact that this hasn't happened before now is damn near amazing. 


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Iamsemisweet)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians - 3/21/2012 11:07:47 PM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

This guy is a fucking criminal, not a soldier. They need to turn him over to the Afghan justice system.

No, he's not.  He's a man.

Don't you see what happened here?  The guy snapped.  There's a shock.  They rotate these people in and out of that hell hole until they are at the brink of their own sanity.  I know I'm not strong enough inside to do it.  Yet, they are doing it everyday. 

Steven was right.  The fact that this hasn't happened before now is damn near amazing. 




I agree. As I said in a previous post, my son's best friend was in Afghanistan. He was put "in country", shipped out and sent back again several times. For a while, he believed in what they were over there...now he says its a travesty. And that's what these killings were. I'm sorry to say, in my opinion, this soldier deserves nothing less than to spend the rest of his life behind bars. But others need to go down with him as this is just one more in a long line of travesties our soldiers have committed in recent months.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians - 3/21/2012 11:35:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
I would, respectfully, disagree.  

He doesn't need bars.  He needs help.  Probably the help that he should have received long before now.  Yes, he should probably receive that help in a facility.

If we are going to use terms like "our soldiers" then we have to treat them like "OUR" soldiers.  Would people on this board been saying they wanted this man's head if it would have been clip?  Would it be so easy for folks to say 'turn him over to the people of Afghanistan' then?

That's the problem sometimes, with "news".  It's easy when a soldier is nameless and faceless.  What happens when he really is one of our own?

Every person on this board is sitting in their nice, comfortable homes, far, far away from the things that can break a man.  Some are familiar with the things that these soldiers see every day.  I know the things that clip has seen would break Me, and I'm no shrinking violet.  Would I have done what this man did?  I would hope not, but at the same time, I absolutely understand what pushed him there.

Yes, we should feel for the victims, but we should feel for this man, too.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to erieangel)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 5:15:31 AM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
For another, different look at this incident, consider these posting to the website, Military.com, from one poster identifying himself as "CPHTR" (Mlitary.com posters are almost all either active duty military or mlitary veterans):

SGT Robert Bales is a Hero, and a Patriot

quote:

I've looked at the reports with a fine toothed comb, analyzed the circumstances known to the general public at this point, and my only conclusion is that SSG Bales is still a hero, and a patriot to his country.

Let's assume for a minute that he did in fact kill 16 innocent Afghan civilians, nine being children. Hate to break it to you, but in that country they are lucky if they live to 30, and "children" do not really exist. They are trained for war from the cradle, they are abused, and tortured to serve the adults around them. If anything SGT.Bales did them a damn favor, I should know. I saw the repulsive Afghan culture with my own eyes.

Either way I could care less if some Afghan civilians were killed, and yes even in cold blood. What's the difference if you are on an objective, and a car doesn't stop because it doesn't understand the situation, and your friend opens up with a .50 cal....and the aftermath shows a dismembered family? This isn't for play, this is fact.

SSG Bales made a mistake, but not one that he should pay for the rest of his life. You cannot lose sight of the fact that he enlisted to defend America after 9/11, deployed to war zones, and served with honor and courage.

He should be sentenced for one year for each death, for a total of 16 years, and push back from the table, and call it a day.

quote:

you need to understand that Afghans value life in much the same way we value garbage. They could care less about the deaths, they just want to keep killing us so they can smuggle heroin to hop heads around the world.

SSG Robert Bales deserves his comrades' loyalty. He deserves the benefit of the doubt, he is a damn good Soldier in my book who made a mistake.

I'm telling you, it makes me sick to think we are spending a damn penny in a filthy, rotten land occupied by vermin, let alone incarcerating men like Bales because of mistakes made there...

All of this pandering to a medieval society is the biggest mistake we have made. These people only understand violence, and if subjected to heavy doses they toe the line. That's how warlords rule over there.

Watch that place fall into anarchy after we leave, not because we didn't show them a better way, but because they are animals.


This poster was slammed hard by many of the other posters - but it is instructive to realize how some people look at this incident.

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 6:14:24 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I think it`s unfair to say that Americans weren`t upset for the victims.That`s part of the outrage.As well,the damage done to the NATO mission.


Obviously I can't speak for all Americans...only myself. But I wasn't upset at all. I find it really hard to get upset at this particular loss of life in a country where, just days before, 6 Americans died as a result of violent protests over the destruction of a book. That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.



Don't you don't speak for all americans, and for that I am very grateful. It upsets me whenever I hear of any child getting caught in the crosshairs and that doesn't change based on what else is going on around them. 9 kids died that day, are you saying those children had no regard for human life? They some how deserved to die because the were born in Afghanistan?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 4:36:39 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
I think it`s unfair to say that Americans weren`t upset for the victims.That`s part of the outrage.As well,the damage done to the NATO mission.


Obviously I can't speak for all Americans...only myself. But I wasn't upset at all. I find it really hard to get upset at this particular loss of life in a country where, just days before, 6 Americans died as a result of violent protests over the destruction of a book. That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.




You are aware that we are uninvited guest in that country.
We have wantonly murdered the residents of that country.
Your opinion that "those" people have little regard for human life is assinine on the face of it.
When you talk about the "destruction of a book" might I call your attention to the conflict between england and ireland over some minor interpretation of some fucking book. The biggoted attitude of your post would seem to reflect the feelings of the poster.
What is it that makes you feel that the deaths of some afghani's is somehow less important than the deaths of those who invaded that country for economic reasons?

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 4:40:49 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
Yahoo is reporting that he's being charged with 17 counts of murder. I guess the military is claiming jurisdiction.



Peace and comfort,



Michael


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 5:04:59 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You are aware that we are uninvited guest in that country.
We have wantonly murdered the residents of that country.
Your opinion that "those" people have little regard for human life is assinine on the face of it.
When you talk about the "destruction of a book" might I call your attention to the conflict between england and ireland over some minor interpretation of some fucking book. The biggoted attitude of your post would seem to reflect the feelings of the poster.
What is it that makes you feel that the deaths of some afghani's is somehow less important than the deaths of those who invaded that country for economic reasons?


Not everyone feels that way.

I know you were addressing someone else, but I'd like to have a word or two.  In that, I'd like to skip the economic reasons and the political crap that some would like to push to the forefront, and I just can't bring Myself to do it.

In the heat of the fire, it doesn't quite matter.

I can not impress upon you what it was like to instruct My own submissive to kill.  It rocked every fiber of My being to tell him that I wanted him to be the one to come home alive.  I looked in his eyes that day *knowing* what I was telling him to do.  When it came down to it, I knew that another life was not as valuable to Me as his.

I would ask that God would save Me, but I have no regret in his instructions.  If that makes Me a bigot or a lesser person, I can serve My time in hell for that.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 5:13:28 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You are aware that we are uninvited guest in that country.
We have wantonly murdered the residents of that country.
Your opinion that "those" people have little regard for human life is assinine on the face of it.
When you talk about the "destruction of a book" might I call your attention to the conflict between england and ireland over some minor interpretation of some fucking book. The biggoted attitude of your post would seem to reflect the feelings of the poster.
What is it that makes you feel that the deaths of some afghani's is somehow less important than the deaths of those who invaded that country for economic reasons?


Not everyone feels that way.

I know you were addressing someone else, but I'd like to have a word or two.  In that, I'd like to skip the economic reasons and the political crap that some would like to push to the forefront, and I just can't bring Myself to do it.

In the heat of the fire, it doesn't quite matter.

I can not impress upon you what it was like to instruct My own submissive to kill.  It rocked every fiber of My being to tell him that I wanted him to be the one to come home alive.  I looked in his eyes that day *knowing* what I was telling him to do.  When it came down to it, I knew that another life was not as valuable to Me as his.

I would ask that God would save Me, but I have no regret in his instructions.  If that makes Me a bigot or a lesser person, I can serve My time in hell for that.




That werx for me.
While I disagree with your position I commend you for taking responsibility for it.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 6:00:38 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

Obviously I can't speak for all Americans...only myself. But I wasn't upset at all. I find it really hard to get upset at this particular loss of life in a country where, just days before, 6 Americans died as a result of violent protests over the destruction of a book. That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.



Yes, feel free to kill women, children and innocent civillians.


(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 6:28:53 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Don't you don't speak for all americans, and for that I am very grateful. It upsets me whenever I hear of any child getting caught in the crosshairs and that doesn't change based on what else is going on around them. 9 kids died that day, are you saying those children had no regard for human life? They some how deserved to die because the were born in Afghanistan?


Why do you insist on asking questions that I've not only answered very plainly, but also that attempt to "read-in" to my comments to find things I did not say?

I never said I thought anyone deserved to die. I very plainly and succinctly stated that I wasn't upset by the act. As for the kids, no I don't have a guess as to how they regard life. However, as it is a learned behavior to have little regard for life, and given the area and environment they are in, I could easily see how they could share the adults' lack of regard of life when they got older.

Once again, to be clear, I never said any of them deserved to die. I just said I can't get upset about such death in an area that's been known for decades to have little regard for human life vs. a book.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 6:30:51 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes, feel free to kill women, children and innocent civillians.


And I guess you're also free to read in to find things I did not say.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/22/2012 6:37:29 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
Obviously I can't speak for all Americans...only myself. But I wasn't upset at all. I find it really hard to get upset at this particular loss of life in a country where, just days before, 6 Americans died as a result of violent protests over the destruction of a book. That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.

Yes, feel free to kill women, children and innocent civillians.


Sadly, there are "American Exceptionalists" who believe that the only important lives on the Planet Earth are the lives of people born American citizens (and maybe naturalized American citizens).

To them, the women and children were Afghani, not Americans - which means they are not people. They would probably feel more upset if he had shot 17 Afghan hounds.

I saw the same thing during my time in Vietnam - Americans who did not consider Vietnamese as humans. Remember that "American hero" William Calley shooting Vietnamese children at My Lai - because, after all, if those Vietnamese kids were allowed to grow up, they might become Viet Cong?

This type of thinking goes back throughout American history:

quote:

...there is a battle going on in a small location north and west of Franklin, Idaho. It is the northwestern Shoshone nation trying to obtain sacred land.

It is the sacred land where 138 years ago a California militia Colonel named Patrick Edward Connor gave his infantry and cavalry of over two hundred orders to 'take no prisoners and remember nits grow into lice.'

This order began a four-hour slaughter at 6:00 a.m. in the morning as the sleepy peaceful people woke at their winter camp on Bear River January 29, 1863. Nearly the entire camp of 400 warriors, old men, old women, women, children, and babies were obliterated.

The undisciplined militia raped the women and young girls. When they were finished with the women, the militia split their heads open with axes or shot them. Any children and babies who were found alive or wounded were likewise clubbed to death, axed, or shot.

The militia acted in the most barbarous ways and when the battle was over plundered the camp. The militia took the Shoshone ponies, food, warm skins, and buffalo robes. What this militia could not take with them were scattered and walked upon. The standing tepees were burnt to the ground. If they had missed any Shoshone, the militia left no food, no shelter, or clothing for survivors.

The militias under Connor were not yet finished with their vicious slaughters. The militia had taken Chief Bear Hunter captive and after binding him, the chief was kicked, whipped, and shot. Chief Bear Hunter was a proud and brave chief who did not utter a word or issue a cry of mercy under his torment. This so infuriated the militia; one of them heated a bayonet and thrust it through Chief Bear Hunter's ears.

In the evening, the militia loaded their dead for burial and wounded for care. The slaughtered Shoshone men, women, and children were left on the field for crows and wolves to devour...

In 1990, the northwestern Shoshone began requesting the United States Government to return this sacred land. As always the government has been less than fair or even concerned with any Native American requests.


History repeats itself - that's one thing wrong about history.

_____________________________

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.””
- Ellie Wiesel

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/23/2012 1:23:28 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
I must truly be bored tonight if I'm wasting time answering your post...

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You are aware that we are uninvited guest in that country.


Yeah, that happens in a war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
We have wantonly murdered the residents of that country.


Killing isn't murder in a time of war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Your opinion that "those" people have little regard for human life is assinine on the face of it.


No, it's really not. They've shown ther lack of such regard steadily over the past few decades.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
When you talk about the "destruction of a book" might I call your attention to the conflict between england and ireland over some minor interpretation of some fucking book.


Not if your assertion is that what happened between those countries somehow justifies the killing over the book I mentioned. (It doesn't.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
The biggoted attitude of your post would seem to reflect the feelings of the poster.
What is it that makes you feel that the deaths of some afghani's is somehow less important than the deaths of those who invaded that country for economic reasons?


Simple. The afghans are a people who've been killing each other for decades over stupid reasons. The "invaders" as you call them are soldiers from my country who were sent to war to combat terrorism (regardless of why you think they are there).

By the way, it's not necessary for you to bold your entire post.


< Message edited by DarqueMirror -- 3/23/2012 1:24:14 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/23/2012 1:28:55 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes, feel free to kill women, children and innocent civillians.

And I guess you're also free to read in to find things I did not say.


I suppose DM, it's true that you didn't specifically call for the deaths of innocent civilians women and children.

What you did say was that " I can't get upset about such death." It was kind of you to advise us of your apathy and to stir yourself from the comfort of your moral torpor to make the strenuous effort involved in typing out a whole complete post of not less than 3 (yes that's 3, not 2 not 1 but 3 whole entire complete lines). I'm almost lost for words as I struggle to capture the grandeur of your attempt, the lofty scale of the inherent magnificent ambition.

It seems that your languid approach caused you to overlook one detail. It's virtually guaranteed there's going to be one sick twisted pinko liberal Islamofascist out there who'll claim that making such an effort to deny feeling any guilt is a manoeuvre designed to conceal such guilt. Pure poppycock of course but you know what they're like .......

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/23/2012 1:31:43 AM >


_____________________________



(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/23/2012 4:25:10 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Yes, feel free to kill women, children and innocent civillians.


And I guess you're also free to read in to find things I did not say.



Seems to me from the quote below that you have no qualms about such deaths. Like so many others you are unable to grasp the fact not all Muslims are terrorists. I can tell you why you should be getting upset about this, it is because it gives the Taliban and others reasons to stoke up the flames. That just perpetuates all of the senseless killing going on.

quote:

That in itself tells me they don't hold human life in very high regard. So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life.



(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/23/2012 8:38:49 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
Killing isn't murder in a time of war.

It is when the people killed are noncombatants, rather than enemy military or insurgents, I'm afraid.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DarqueMirror)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians - 3/23/2012 11:09:57 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror
Killing isn't murder in a time of war.

It is when the people killed are noncombatants, rather than enemy military or insurgents, I'm afraid.



This is my position as well.

I have often posted that I have no problem killing insurgents either on the field or using drones. My only problem with drones is when they hit the wrong target as they frequently seem to do.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109