RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians

RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians (Full Version)

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subrob1967 -> RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 2:42:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I think we can have our own trial and execution just fine. Court martial can be done before lunch, two appeals at an hour each, and the President can sign the death warrant by fax. His unit could assemble and hang him tonight. Easy Peasy.... I agree... We're talking about Major Hasan, right? Oh, that's right, he's still sitting in Leavenworth because he's Muslim, and shouted Allah Akbar as he shot up Fort Hood, we shouldn't rush to judgement in these cases.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 2:53:25 PM)
Apparently Bales is being charged with 17 counts of murder. However, his attorney reports that Bales seems to have significant memory loss, and not just about these events. Apparently, he received a head injury and then was cleared for duty.

PeonForHer -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 3:06:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror So I can't see myself getting upset about deaths in a country whose people have demonstrated time and again they have little regard for human life. True. All Afghanis are like that, even the babies. None of them are really human. True. All Americans are like that, even the babies. None of them are really human. Ah, and so it goes on, bigger and bigger and bigger. You know it makes sense. [:)]

hardcybermaster -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 4:28:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx You are aware that we are uninvited guest in that country. We have wantonly murdered the residents of that country. Your opinion that "those" people have little regard for human life is assinine on the face of it. When you talk about the "destruction of a book" might I call your attention to the conflict between england and ireland over some minor interpretation of some fucking book. The biggoted attitude of your post would seem to reflect the feelings of the poster. What is it that makes you feel that the deaths of some afghani's is somehow less important than the deaths of those who invaded that country for economic reasons? Not everyone feels that way. I know you were addressing someone else, but I'd like to have a word or two. In that, I'd like to skip the economic reasons and the political crap that some would like to push to the forefront, and I just can't bring Myself to do it. In the heat of the fire, it doesn't quite matter. I can not impress upon you what it was like to instruct My own submissive to kill. It rocked every fiber of My being to tell him that I wanted him to be the one to come home alive. I looked in his eyes that day knowing what I was telling him to do. When it came down to it, I knew that another life was not as valuable to Me as his. I would ask that God would save Me, but I have no regret in his instructions. If that makes Me a bigot or a lesser person, I can serve My time in hell for that. first let me say I have no idea what it is like to see a loved one go to war but I imagine it is pretty horrible and frightening. However I was interested to read that you instructed your sub to kill. I thought they had other people to do that, like maybe his commanding officer perhaps? When ordered to attack and presumably kill opposing forces would he have disobeyed a direct order and put his fellow troops in extra danger if you had not instructed him so? I bet his commanding officer would like to know! ps. hope you instructed him on ducking and running away too! lol

LadyHibiscus -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 4:39:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Apparently Bales is being charged with 17 counts of murder. However, his attorney reports that Bales seems to have significant memory loss, and not just about these events. Apparently, he received a head injury and then was cleared for duty. I think if I let my gun go crazy while I was pointing it at someone, I would want to black out the incident, too.

LadyPact -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 4:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That werx for me. While I disagree with your position I commend you for taking responsibility for it. Thank you. I greatly appreciate that comment. (This next part is a bit more general. I just didn't want to create two posts.) I spent a very long call with clip last night and this thread became a part of it. I think this particular news story has probably got to Me the most since clip came home. I can't even really say why that is other than what I see here really could have been any soldier. Maybe that's why I'm sitting here saying, "it could have been". When clip and I had that talk just before the last time he deployed, and I told him what I said, I knew one of the potential outcomes was him coming home in a box. I can't be ashamed for saying that I didn't want My own coming back that way. I know that every human life has the same value, but when you stack the life of someone you love against someone else, there really does seem to be more value to one than the other. If clip should deploy again, I'd give him the same instruction. Even if I'm wrong to say so.

LadyPact -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 5:25:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster first let me say I have no idea what it is like to see a loved one go to war but I imagine it is pretty horrible and frightening. To answer that first part, please excuse My language, but it's pretty fucking hard. quote: However I was interested to read that you instructed your sub to kill. I thought they had other people to do that, like maybe his commanding officer perhaps? And I did nothing more than that. Adding to clarify. Yes, clip has commanding officers, and I don't really screw too much with that part. I don't even claim to have greater power than the part of him that serves others under the military. As My boy, it's no different than I would expect of him to follow, say, the laws of the land. I didn't write those, either, but he still knew that he'd damn well better follow them. quote: When ordered to attack and presumably kill opposing forces would he have disobeyed a direct order and put his fellow troops in extra danger if you had not instructed him so? I bet his commanding officer would like to know! Attack would not be the proper term. The correct term would actually be defend. To be a bit more precise, here is what I told him: "If it comes down to you and another man, don't hesitate. Take him out. I know that ending a life goes against your medical training, but that is what I want you to do. No matter what else happens over there, I want you coming home." quote: ps. hope you instructed him on ducking and running away too! lol Yeah, that would be My preference, but I also know that's not always an option for a medic.

farglebargle -> RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 5:38:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I think we can have our own trial and execution just fine. Court martial can be done before lunch, two appeals at an hour each, and the President can sign the death warrant by fax. His unit could assemble and hang him tonight. Easy Peasy.... I agree... We're talking about Major Hasan, right? Due Process of Law is an absolute.

subrob1967 -> RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 6:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I think we can have our own trial and execution just fine. Court martial can be done before lunch, two appeals at an hour each, and the President can sign the death warrant by fax. His unit could assemble and hang him tonight. Easy Peasy.... I agree... We're talking about Major Hasan, right? Due Process of Law is an absolute. But you've already tried and convicted Bale.

farglebargle -> RE: U.S. Serviceman shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 7:09:03 PM)
I haven't convicted anyone. That's the courts job. I just like my Justice to be Swift. Why make crazy people crazier waiting around for their executions? Better it's done quickly so there's a little suffering as possible. What part of quote: Court martial can be done before lunch, two appeals at an hour each, and the President can sign the death warrant by fax. His unit could assemble and hang him tonight. isn't perfectly clear to you?

DarqueMirror -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 10:42:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Seems to me from the quote below that you have no qualms about such deaths. Like so many others you are unable to grasp the fact not all Muslims are terrorists. You'd be wrong about that. I know very well they aren't all terrorists. Nice try though. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I can tell you why you should be getting upset about this, it is because it gives the Taliban and others reasons to stoke up the flames. That just perpetuates all of the senseless killing going on. Oh please. Like they need a reason. They've been at this bullshit for a lot longer than we've been over there.

DarqueMirror -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/23/2012 10:43:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It is when the people killed are noncombatants, rather than enemy military or insurgents, I'm afraid. You mean like the 6 Americans (and countless Afghans) killed during the protest "over a book?"

erieangel -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 12:40:08 AM)
A book. A book. It was a Holy Book. One Muslims take far more seriously than most Christians take their Holy Book. The military desecrated several of their Holy Books and the Afghan people fought back in their anger. But lets flip the scenario shall we? Lets say the US had been invaded and occupied for 10 long years. Countless civilians had died. The only thing we have left to hold on to as a hope for a better future is a few "sacred" items. And for no apparent reason, the invaders decide to destroy those sacred items. What do you think Americans would do?

DarqueMirror -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 12:49:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel A book. A book. It was a Holy Book. One Muslims take far more seriously than most Christians take their Holy Book. The military desecrated several of their Holy Books and the Afghan people fought back in their anger. So we're justified in murdering people who burn our flag? I think not. quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel But lets flip the scenario shall we? Lets say the US had been invaded and occupied for 10 long years. Countless civilians had died. The only thing we have left to hold on to as a hope for a better future is a few "sacred" items. And for no apparent reason, the invaders decide to destroy those sacred items. What do you think Americans would do? You can play what if all day long. It doesn't change the fact that they used a book to justify multiple murder. If they can justify that with a book, I can't get upset that some of them were killed by a guy who nutted out.

Politesub53 -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 4:29:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Seems to me from the quote below that you have no qualms about such deaths. Like so many others you are unable to grasp the fact not all Muslims are terrorists. You'd be wrong about that. I know very well they aren't all terrorists. Nice try though. quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 I can tell you why you should be getting upset about this, it is because it gives the Taliban and others reasons to stoke up the flames. That just perpetuates all of the senseless killing going on. Oh please. Like they need a reason. They've been at this bullshit for a lot longer than we've been over there. Your posts show exactly why this bullshit will continue. Have you actually got any Muslim friends and listened to their views on terrorism ? I have.

thishereboi -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 6:57:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel A book. A book. It was a Holy Book. One Muslims take far more seriously than most Christians take their Holy Book. The military desecrated several of their Holy Books and the Afghan people fought back in their anger. But lets flip the scenario shall we? Lets say the US had been invaded and occupied for 10 long years. Countless civilians had died. The only thing we have left to hold on to as a hope for a better future is a few "sacred" items. And for no apparent reason, the invaders decide to destroy those sacred items. What do you think Americans would do? Ok, first. The books that were burned were not the last few sacred items left in the country. Nor were they the only hope for a better future. They were books that are available in many other places around the world. In fact I am willing to bet they still have a few copies left in the country. That said, if the US had been occupied for 10 years, the last thing I would be worrying about is some books being burned. Now I do believe it it stupid to burn a book but not worth killing someone over.

Musicmystery -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 7:00:03 AM)
That said, come on, the results of this action were not hard to foresee. It was deliberate provocation. It was stupid. Military personnel should know better. Actions like this harm the effort.

erieangel -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 8:30:40 AM)
quote: So we're justified in murdering people who burn our flag? Oh come on!! The right wing goes ballistic every time an American protester burns a flag, even though burning the flag is a protected form of free speech.

Kirata -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 9:53:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: erieangel quote: So we're justified in murdering people who burn our flag? Oh come on!! The right wing goes ballistic every time an American protester burns a flag, even though burning the flag is a protected form of free speech. Ah yes, free speech. There was a time when speech meant, well, you know, speech, words and images and cartoons and such, not overt physical actions. If the American Civil Liberties-We-Like Union defended the Second Amendment the way they've gone about making a mockery of the First, every American citizen would be entitled to own a 105mm Howitzer and a suitcase nuke. K.

Musicmystery -> RE: U.S. Soldier shoots Afghan civilians (3/24/2012 10:01:05 AM)
Those are hardly the same, Kirata. Burning a flag harms no one; widespread gun use (at least arguably) does--especially when stretched to include suitcase nukes.

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