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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:26:44 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You obviously have a point on the matter of free speech. It is used and has been used to further greater political freedom of the west.

My problem is 'hired' or 'scripted' speech. Most of the talking heads mentioned in your OP are paid...to lie and right straight through their teeth.

Fox even scripts for its 'reporters.' [sic]

(Let's just SAY, the reverend was the ghost writer of Obama's 'autobiography.' Let's just...SAY it ? The debate then ensues based on what debaters know is a blatant lie)

I ask that while it is 'free speech' to what extent does free speech in the form of both govt. and broadcast information as lies begin to step outside the bounds and of there are no bounds...then all bets are off as to the future of relevant free speech. Speech will turn to nothing more than a means to inflame. Inciting a riot comes to mind.

Most ALL of what the talking right wingnuts talk about, is...based on a ridiculous lie.

What we've seen in 30-40 years, is the hypocrisy and corruption of our govt....hitting the airwaves. The right is winning the war OF propaganda...the dems are just rank amateurs.


I would say that Fox, as much as MSNBC or CNN have every right to air whatever they'd like to air. That is their "free speech". I would prefer that they kept their news broadcasts to facts, rather than opinion but even that doesn't seem likely.

No, we are lucky in one way; the inter-webs have allowed us to exert our right to free speech in a way that was never available to the people who came before us.

Even before the advent of the inter-webs, I used to try to make people understand that broadcast media was never going to give the whole truth because they are beholden to the government that a true journalist might have to "expose" on a regular basis. They need to have a license to broadcast. Who issues that license?

No, I used to work as a journalist op/ed writer for a newspaper and I lament the death of the print media because that was a source that was unbeholden to "Big Brother".

Not one to stay down for long, I found this inter-webs thing and the vast majority of truth that is available is incredible. Maybe truth to only the people that write it and a few followers but isn't it wonderful that we have so many different viewpoints from which we can hear?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:39:44 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

isn't it wonderful that we have so many different viewpoints from which we can hear?


Vital, in fact, if people want to make informed choices.

As for the trio, I don't give a rats ass about any of them but they are entitled to do their little campaign if they so desire and I am entitled to hold the 1st amendment in the highest regard and think they are betraying the Constitution by even making the attempt to stifle a voice, even a voice that I think is vile. I make the personal choice to listen or not.. just like putting the couple of trolls we have here on hide.. but others have fun bantering with them so who am I to say they can't.. and who are that trio to say that we must not even be allowed to listen even if it's just to point and laugh about it all.

Long live the 1st! It's my favorite right.. even more so than the second (which I would totally use in defense of the 1st!)

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:41:37 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

Dutch MP acquitted in 'hate' trial

posted this in the other first amendment thread too, post#34
same difference.
Like they said here its a win win situation for the accused.
Loose - and they will cry about killing free speech
Win - we can call eachother names and public figures are allowed to spread hatred.
Better?


How fucking cool is it that a case about free speech is the first time the news cameras were unrestricted in what they could broadcast? Fucking epic!

I listened all the way to the end, though and this guy is going right off the rails. he wants to ban burkas (burquas?)? Seriously? He wants to limit what religious clothing someone can wear?

To denounce a religion (I feel) is completely within the bounds of free speech. It happens here, every day. Just type: C A T H ... I have no issue with that. What I have an issue with is those that would deny the Catholics the right to scream about atheism, in return.

I have said, quite a few times: with freedom comes responsibility and part of that responsibility is that we need to afford people that don't agree with us the same rights that we demand for ourselves. Otherwise, it's pointless. Someone who says: "I want to slam Islam but I don't want them attacking ... Lutheranism is the predominant in your corner of the world? ... is talking out of both sides of their mouth and is, ultimately, giving the government the very weapon that will be the destruction of their own free speech.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/14/2012 9:43:12 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:42:50 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Jessica Scott is so far the best spokeslut:

quote:

One of the leaders of the backlash pack has been Jessica Scott, a soldier and author from Fort Hood, Texas. On March 2, Scott took to her blog to describe how, as a married soldier, she used birth control while on tour so that she could continue to perform her job without the worry of becoming pregnant. “By all means, call me a slut,” she wrote. “Calling me and every woman who chooses when to have children a slut will not change the fact that we are responsible citizens who opt to plan their families, who opt to take responsibility for their lives as women and members of our society. And yes, call me a whore because I still expect Tricare to cover my birth control and my pap smear and my government mandated annual STD exam.”


Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/08/in-rush-limbaughs-wake-women-are-reclaiming-the-word-slut/#ixzz1p6nwII9D

I do agree with the op-ed above however, this whole flap might not have gotten off the ground if Fluke were not such a hottie, if had been a past-her-prime former hottie like these Three, it might not have made the back page.

Given the swing voters are largely neither liberal nor fundie, but what has been called "sporting culture", they don't have nearly the same visceral reaction to slut symbolism, the power of the pussy is mildly persuasive. As long as you aren't talking about their mothers, sisters, or wives, who themselves for the most part are soft, rather than hard feminists - Fluke sticking to the practical applications was the right move.

But the the hook here, from a strictly marketing standpoint, was the eye candy - Palin became a presidential contender on little else, feminists ignore it at their own peril.

I think it falls far short of feminist fundies hijacking the party the way the SBC has hijacked the pubs, but like you said, politics is a war of perceptions, you gotta thread the needle here; the overreaction runs the risk of solidifying the spectre of swarms of unappeasable joyless, sexless harpies, shrewishly shrilling us all into chronic migraines - the opposite of the fear of unrestrained sluttery - neither thing is really desirable.

You don't have to overcompensate, just find some other issues of more universal appeal, or risk losing all your momentum.

The hypocrisy of the FCC itself is a good one, the SBC can be counted on to go off the deep end on that one.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/14/2012 9:43:29 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:43:39 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

So three women are exercising their right to free speech by writing a letter to the FCC. This is news?

It is to the lamestream-media. Anything to divert "We the people..." from the real news...Obama, via Obamacare, violating the Catholic Church's right to freedom of religion by requiring it to provide contraceptive AND abortive products free of charge to female employees.



Eh?? Excuse me. As pointed out on other threads, the contraceptive mandate has been in place since 2000, the only change in that it will have no co-pay...that's hardly "free of charge" as you claim because we still pay for our insurance. Also, the Catholic Church is exempt from this mandate, as are any other houses of worship. Catholic hospitals, on the hand, are not exempt, because not everybody who works at Catholic hospital is Catholic.


Back to the topic...This is a matter for the FCC, but they won't pull Rush off the air. He won't even get the hefty fine the network got after Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction".



I don't think he should get a fine at all. What did he do that was against FCC regs?

It might have been loathsome but it wasn't illegal.

The free market economy and Capitalism is fining Rush. The FCC should stay out of this one.

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:44:43 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

closer to four decades


This.

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:48:13 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Someone who says: "I want to slam Islam but I don't want them attacking ... Lutheranism is the predominant in your corner of the world? ... is talking out of both sides of their mouth and is, ultimately, giving the government the very weapon that will be the destruction of their own free speech.


...but not this.

Yes, it's "talking out of both sides of their mouth."

But if its "giving government the very weapon," then they are in turn denied this misguided, but free speech.

The impetus is on government and law protecting free speech, not shutting up hypocrites. You'd be very busy.

And neither the government or in fact the FCC is doing a damn thing about Rush. Free speech in action.

A lot of pissed off people are ranting about Rush. Free speech in action.

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:53:03 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		The symbol to go for here is not the slut, it's the bimbo: think Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders: they aren't sluts exactly, but they can be had.

That segues it into a free speech issue, which the SBC is consistently against.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/14/2012 9:55:25 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:54:21 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

What's the difference between Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Bill clinton, Glenn Beck, George Bush (the junior one) and "Hanoi Jane" Fonda?


Fonda was the only one that had the guts to go to Vietnam.

Jane HANOI Fonda was the only one who committed TREASON by aiding and abeting Communist North Vietnam.

Vietnam Veteran


Thank you for your service and huah!



Peace and comfort,



Michael

I agree here, Fonda was a young, stupid, traitorous cunt. Going to N. Vietnam was one thing but I understand she was passed notes to inform family about the allied prisoners. It is also my understanding that she then passed them onto the NVA officers. Those men paid for that.

But let's be objective. McCain turned right away, even ending up on Hanoi radio. According to fellow prisoners, almost all of which had nothing to do with him, some even hating his guts to this day and none supporting his presidential aspirations and because they feel he too...was a traitor.

Then he comes home and gets a medal and some went public about it...to no avail. By then, McCain was the right's fair-hair-boy and the past mattered only to 'enhance' [sic] his popularity.

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:56:26 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

closer to four decades


This.


Actually, in my research, I re-found something I had forgotten about; during WWI freedom of speech vís-à-vís anything that condemned the war was punishable by fines/imprisonment. I forget the name of the act. I guess I can go back and find it.

I'm a little shocked but not entirely. It was a different time, back then. people kind of trusted the government to ultimately do the right thing (and the law was repealed, after the war) but we don't live in that time.

Would I like to see less people like Hanoi jane back in the 70s or the Westboro idiots of today? Yes but, I can't look myself in the mirror while demanding that government take away their right to speak out.

Had Hanoi Jane said what she said from our shores, even while wearing a ARVN uniform, I would have had to turn my head, puke, and add her to a list of imbaciles with whom I would have no truck. In my mind she over-stepped into criminality.

Westboro, Rush, that palin Maher, et al. are a different story. They have a duty to speak out, when they think something is wrong. We all do. We also have a responsibility to do so in a correct manner and that is where the aforementioned three (of this paragraph) fail, miserably.

Having said that; it's also part of the territory. Have none of us ever said something and cringed, as the words left our mouth? Maybe it took a week or six months for us to regret it (the latter being for those amongst us with a "Y" chromosome and current or former wives). But, we've all done it.

I don't always choose my words as well as I would like. I'd like to be as perfectly articulate as I am devilishly good looking but God has a sense of humor.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/14/2012 9:57:35 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:56:56 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

think Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders: they aren't sluts exactly, but they can be had.


This is good practical information; thanks for sharing!

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 9:59:49 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I agree here, Fonda was a young, stupid, traitorous cunt. Going to N. Vietnam was one thing but I understand she was passed notes to inform family about the allied prisoners. It is also my understanding that she then passed them onto the NVA officers. Those men paid for that.

But let's be objective. McCain turned right away, even ending up on Hanoi radio. According to fellow prisoners, almost all of which had nothing to do with him, some even hating his guts to this day and none supporting his presidential aspirations and because they feel he too...was a traitor.

Then he comes home and gets a medal and some went public about it...to no avail. By then, McCain was the right's fair-hair-boy and the past mattered only to 'enhance' [sic] his popularity.


She was 34 years old and the notes thing never happened. I know it's long but read the snopes link I provided.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:00:14 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

think Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders: they aren't sluts exactly, but they can be had.


This is good practical information; thanks for sharing!

Just FYI - Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders have to sign a morality clause, so they can be had (possibly) but only in the off season.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:04:56 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Well, she's a bimbo (Barbarella), symbolically speaking, and her humanist politics were too complex for the era, her goal was was not pro-NVA, it was antiwar, her crime was attempting to humanize the enemy, it could be more accurately characterized as a peace envoy, Nixon was already trying to find a way to wind it all down, so it's hard to say it hindered the war effort.

The charge that she informed on American prisoners to the NVA is repudiated on snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:12:54 AM   
RacerJim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

If you defend the right to free speech for some, you must defend the right to free speech for all or your words are empty and shallow


I will point out once again---this is entirely the role of the FCC, beyond an almost antequated role of assigning bandwidth, and it has been for quite some time--thanks to conservative pressure to have government police decency. Where were you then?

Otherwise, I'm on the same page about censorship as you....but the fauxrage here requires you find a mirror.


I marched with Howard Stern, a guy I can't fucking stand, for his right to broadcast his brand of "humor".



Peace and comfort,



Michael

Then we agree on that much (about Stern as well).

Two separate issues here--Rush and the hypocrisy of the FCC.

If someone is finally going after the later, about time. If the former is the reason, so be it.

The trio's claims are over the top, of course, and not going to happen. Even if they had a case, it would be settled with a fine, not removal from the air.

But politics is played by theater these days. Remember the swift boaters? Or Willie Horton? Or the Muskee letter? All bullshit, and everyone knew it, but they also knew bullshit works.

I used to point out the Democratic leadership had no backbone. Now the Republican leadership is spineless as well. They've kowtowed to Rush's program for years, and to the fanatic portion of the religious right, to see their party ripped apart and turned into a mockery of what it was four decades ago. If the leadership can't do it, ultimately the players will.



The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ("SBVT") were all bullshit? Bullshit!

"Kerry & Associates" as well as a few individual Kerry supporters filed separate Civil suits against the SBVT for libel, slander and/or defamation, and "Kerry & Associtates" also filed petitions with the FCC, FEC and IRS in an attempt to silence the SBVT. However, when it came time for each of the foregoing to put their money where their mouths had been -- i.e. profer evidence during pre-trial evidenciary hearings -- they all put their tails between their legs and high-tailed it out of court when Kerry refused to make his complete military service records available to their respective attorneys. Additionally, T. Boones Pickens offered $1 MILLION to anyone who could prove any of the SBVT allegations against Kerry was not true -- Kerry accepted his offer but then reneged when Mr. Pickens asked him to bring a copy of his original discharge from the Navy Reserve rather than the discharge he received 6 years later from the Secretary of Defense at the request of the President (then Jimmy Carter).

Vietnam Veteran

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:16:39 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You see, Michael?

Because it works.

Where there is theater, there are believers.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/14/2012 10:18:09 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:17:44 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

think Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders: they aren't sluts exactly, but they can be had.


This is good practical information; thanks for sharing!

Just FYI - Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders have to sign a morality clause, so they can be had (possibly) but only in the off season.

Well. There go my vacation plans.

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:21:26 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		There ya go, they're not sluts, it's cheescake: a non-threatening display of feminine allure, pin up girls, they represent your sweethearts, like Betty Grable.

It not about how they actually express their sexuality in private, it's about how they express their sexuality in public.

Although pin up girls can be portrayed in more erotic and suggestive ways, it has to remain firmly on the sweetheart side of the line, lest it devolve into outright porn.

It's back to reproductive political-economics, to which hard feminism is somewhat threatening, given that there is undeniably a large component of misandry involved, which makes it all look like just more hypocrisy.

Middle America is more neo-Aristotelian in it's perceptions of gender, men and women are not like separate species as they are often portrayed by far right androcentrism or far left gynocentrism (so far left they're right), they are perceived more like reciprocal inversions of each other - a more realistic and quotidian paradigm than the more militant extremes.

This goes back to at least the Nineteenth century, though it probably has roots in Elizabethan age and beyond.

< Message edited by xssve -- 3/14/2012 10:23:08 AM >

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:26:09 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Well, she's a bimbo (Barbarella), symbolically speaking, and her humanist politics were too complex for the era, her goal was was not pro-NVA, it was antiwar, her crime was attempting to humanize the enemy, it could be more accurately characterized as a peace envoy, Nixon was already trying to find a way to wind it all down, so it's hard to say it hindered the war effort.

The charge that she informed on American prisoners to the NVA is repudiated on snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp


Sorry. I would argue that by going there, wearing their uniform, and telling the world what wonderful humanitarians they were she committed the treasonous act of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I'm not sure about "comfort" although, I'd wager she fucked a few of 'em just to prove what a humanitarian she is but, propagandizing is certainly giving aid.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: The Unholy Trio Demand "Justice" - 3/14/2012 10:27:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Well, she's a bimbo (Barbarella), symbolically speaking, and her humanist politics were too complex for the era, her goal was was not pro-NVA, it was antiwar, her crime was attempting to humanize the enemy, it could be more accurately characterized as a peace envoy, Nixon was already trying to find a way to wind it all down, so it's hard to say it hindered the war effort.

The charge that she informed on American prisoners to the NVA is repudiated on snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp


Sorry. I would argue that by going there, wearing their uniform, and telling the world what wonderful humanitarians they were she committed the treasonous act of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. I'm not sure about "comfort" although, I'd wager she fucked a few of 'em just to prove what a humanitarian she is but, propagandizing is certainly giving aid.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

OK. Here's where I stop taking you seriously.

Off to be productive. Enjoy.

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