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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 6:54:04 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Who really cares?


Quoted for truth

Why is a nincompoop such as that even worth a second thought?


Point taken. And yet . . .

When views like Cameron's, claiming to be be rooted in faith, seep into the atmosphere, you know there will be folks who latch on to them as proof that God shares their prejudices. So I think it's important for others, particularly people of faith, to say, "Wait. That's not how I see it."

As a sometime Episcopalian, I was particularly proud when my bishop spoke out for marriage equality. Her essay won't convince everyone, I well know, but it helped make clear that Christianity need not equal Cameron's perspective.
It's mostly the SBC evangelicals, who split from the Northern churches after the civil war (all the major denominations, including Episcopalians split into Northern and Southern branches) but who grew in influence during reconstruction thereafter - ironically, they spread far and wide throughout the West, including California, largely by following government public works programs during the Depression, though earlier waves populated the gold fields and cattle trails, both North and West.

Mostly rural and reactionary, they have a particular dislike of carpetbagging Northern inty-lec-tuals ("liberal elites"), and highly androcentric, i.e., they're not too fond of feminists either.

They're the constituency propping up both Gingrich and Santorum, who pander to them directly, and who Romney has to get into his camp, although they oppose him on religious grounds (he's a Northerner).

Don't underestimate their influence, the Bush administration, the pres, VP, and speaker of the house were all SBC, and Chief Justice Roberts, also SBC, was appointed by Bush.

Statistically, they're still only roughly a third of the population, but they've been steadily infiltrating the bureaucracy for a couple many decades now - Harry Trueman was the first Southern Baptist in the White house, followed by Johnson, Reagan (Disciples of Christ, Southernized evangelials), Clinton and both Bushes, they practically got a lock on the presidency, and RNC gerrymandering is only going to solidify that.

Clinton was SBC too, believe it or not, and they do go through occasional internal liberalization phases, most recently in the Eighties, but AEI has been working on whipping them into a frenzy (and is probably behind the shift towards Calvinism - militant exceptionalism) for some time now - Limbaugh started up in earnest back during the Schiavo incident, the whole "culture of life" thing, and has been stumping the SBC ever since, same with Murdoch and Fox, the SBC is the RNC's secret weapon of mass distraction.

There Will Be Blood is kind of a metaphor for the whole thing, the petrodollar cabal and the Northern philanthropies are the money and the policy architects, the SBC are the grunts, even Clinton threw 'em a bone with DOMA.

Thing is, they don't really share the same concerns as the republican leadership itself (oil mostly), but they're a gullible bunch, and easy to hook with any kind of millennial/evangelical bait.

The South done riz agin'.


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 7:39:34 AM   
Fightdirecto


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I still go back to my original point:

Cameron is a shining example of those Americans, found within all aspects of the spectrum, who seem to believe that they have a 1st Amendment to say whatever they wish on TV, radio, in print or standing shouting on a street corner - but complain when someone else who disagrees with them says so on TV, radio, in print or standing shouting on a street corner.

"I have a 1st Amendment right to say whatever I wish - but no other American has a 1st Amendment right to disagree with me or to say that what I said was wrong, stupid or hateful."

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 7:40:59 AM   
Marc2b


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RANT WARNIG!!!

THIS RANT IS RATED A LEVEL FIVE OR MINOR RANT
(angry shouts and mild fist pounding, damage to structures and people minimal).



Round and round and round we go....

It never seems to end!

A says something, B denounces it as hate speech, A screams censorship and tells B to shut up, B screams censorship, somebody starts a thread on Collarme about how stupid and hateful the other side is.

Civics classes must be really lacking nowadays in the school system. I was taught that when you say something you have to expect responses because others have the same right of free speech that you do.

I am so sick and tired of people screaming censorship because someone else had the audacity to disagree with them or call them on something they said.

People seem to not understand the difference between censorship and censure.

If the government shuts down Rush Limbaugh for something he said... That's censorship.

If Limbaugh should lose his show because advertisers abandon him because people make it know that they don't like limbaugh's name calling and don't want to associate with anyone who is associated with him... that's censure.

Same thing with Bill Maher or Kirk Cameron.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... the beautiful thing about freedom of speech is that it makes the assholes and dumbasses easier to spot.

Case in point.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 3/15/2012 7:41:40 AM >


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 9:12:08 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b


I've said it before and I'll say it again... the beautiful thing about freedom of speech is that it makes the assholes and dumbasses easier to spot.




Indeed.

Not to mention the dipshits and douche canoes.


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 11:43:33 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto
"I have a 1st Amendment right to say whatever I wish - but no other American has a 1st Amendment right to disagree with me or to say that what I said was wrong, stupid or hateful."


I can't comment on that, I don't know enough about his position because I stopped listening to him after he started talking about the crocoduck.







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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 12:42:36 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

"Well, John's been out of work for a year now, and my job doesn't offer insurance. We can't afford the payments on the house, and the car barely runs. But we're just thrilled that two men we don't know can't get married!"

While looking for the excellent cartoon, which I cannot find either, I did find this:


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 12:57:11 PM   
Iamsemisweet


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Kirk Cameron is hilarious.  I love the banana sermon.  The funny thing about it, besides the obvious, is that he is so wrong.  So wrong that I am embarrassed for Kirk Cameron. Bananas are the perfect fruit for humans, soft and easy to peel, sweet and delicious, because humans have cultivated them for ten thousand years.  In fact, bananas are probably the most highly-cultivated crop in history.  The bananas we eat – those yellow ones in the grocery store – are not even grown from seed.  They are cloned.  The banana you ate for breakfast yesterday is the clone of the banana your mother first gave you in your high chair.  Because modern commercial bananas (also called “Cavendish” bananas) are so highly cultivated, they are susceptible to disease, and now are supposedly on the brink of extinction again due to a fungus called Panama disease.  The commercial banana industry was previously wiped out in the early 20th century by this fungus.  The old commercial banana (called the “Gros Michel” banana) was reported to be much sweeter and more delicious than modern bananas.  Remember that song, “Yes, We have no Bananas?”  It was about that fungus.  

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 8:42:02 PM   
GotSteel


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Your getting way too into this when really this is all that needs to be said:







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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 8:46:07 PM   
tweakabelle


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There seems to be no alternative but to conclude that the crocoduck is the product of intelligent design.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/15/2012 8:57:01 PM >


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 8:55:05 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There seems to be no alterntive but to conclude that the crocoduck is the product of intelligent design.

If Cameron thought of it, it isn't very fucking intelligent.

I actually had to google him. I never watched that stupid assed show anyway.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/15/2012 9:16:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There seems to be no alterntive but to conclude that the crocoduck is the product of intelligent design.

If Cameron thought of it, it isn't very fucking intelligent.

I actually had to google him. I never watched that stupid assed show anyway.


Not being as well read as I ought to be, I had never heard of the 'crocoduck' before. So I researched it. I discovered:

"In March of 2007 former child star turned born-again fundamentalist Christian Creationist Kirk Cameron went on ABC’s Nightline to refute the theory of evolution using a rather unique hypothesis: Because there is no Crocoduck, God exists.

On May 13th 2007, Urbandictionary user Naton created the first defintion.
“One of the most prominant icons of modern day Christianity, the Crocoduck is capable of dispeling all arguements in favour of Atheism and Darwinism simply by not existing. Its sworn enemy is the platypus, which, in harsh contrast, is capable of proving god does not exist by existing
."
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crocoduck

I would like to observe that it's an argument of astonishing simplicity (with particular emphasis on the 'simplicity' bit). The logic employed here has some interesting applications such as:
Because Kirk Cameron exists, intelligent design cannot.

I know the US healthcare system is quite deficient in many respects but it does seems necessary to ask:
Why hasn't this person been certified bonkers and placed in a suitable institution years ago?



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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 6:32:54 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
On May 13th 2007, Urbandictionary user Naton created the first defintion.
“One of the most prominant icons of modern day Christianity, the Crocoduck is capable of dispeling all arguements in favour of Atheism and Darwinism simply by not existing. Its sworn enemy is the platypus, which, in harsh contrast, is capable of proving god does not exist by existing."
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crocoduck





I hadn't run into that thanks.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 5:22:45 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

“One of the most prominant icons of modern day Christianity,


That strikes me as a bit overstated. I've been a church lady--Catholic, then Episcopal--all my life, and I'd never heard of it till this thread.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 5:26:49 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


Why hasn't this person been certified bonkers and placed in a suitable institution years ago?



We do, hon. It's called Congress.

See Kirk. See Kirk Run. Run Kirk Run!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 5:31:48 PM   
Moonhead


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I could take this "intelligent design" crap a lot more seriously if the human body wasn't such a shoddy piece of work. Your knees (guaranteed to wear out at least a decade before the rest of your joints), your wisdom teeth (not actually designed to fit into the gaps in your jaws), your appendix (good for killing you if it gets infected and very little else) and various other misconceived appendages and bits of offal are not intelligent design, and are even more of an argument against creationism than the panda's thumb or the New England pepper moth.
If thisshambles is God's masterwork and his last word on creation, then He didn't have a fucking clue what he was playing at and needs suing rather than worshipping...

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 5:46:16 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
That strikes me as a bit overstated. I've been a church lady--Catholic, then Episcopal--all my life, and I'd never heard of it till this thread.


*Psst* It's from a joke site, here's another entry:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=religion
Religion

A cult that dosn't end with suicide.
Hey Timothy, wanna join my new cul-I mean religion?

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/16/2012 5:50:23 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

*Psst* It's from a joke site


Oops! Didn't know that.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/17/2012 12:13:08 AM   
joshspet1980


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searching4mysir

I really don't define myself by my sexuality. It's no ones business who I allow to play with my pussy except the person playing with it.

This being said, as a Christian, Mr. Cameron is told by his faith to love everyone, even his enemies. This means wanting the best for them, which is Heaven. When he sees people participating in behavior/activities that his faith sees as blocking their path to Heaven, wouldn't it be the loving thing for him to encourage them to turn away from that behavior, whatever that behavior may be? Is it hate speech to do that? He may be misguided in his beliefs, but that doesn't make him hateful or evil.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
He said nothing about gay people. In may be a hair-split but, I think it's an important one.

Surely, we hate seeing someone who's doing something with which we don't agree but we don't hate them ?

As I said; I have seen him call the onslaught "slander" but not "hate speech".



I have to say that I agree with the opinions of searching4mysir and DaddySatyr. And I didn't find anything insulting about it myself and I am bisexual. I am not offended. Sometimes I feel that I don't want to be bi anymore because I know my own beliefs say it's wrong. But, I also know that I will be forgiven as well.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/17/2012 12:24:59 AM   
SorceressJ


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Kirk Cameron is entitled to his beliefs and opinions, as are we all. But that being said, let us hope he never runs for office. Things are insane enough as it is.
With regard to any religious notion which says that I or anyone else is to be damned for loving an individual of my own gender: I am straight, but I vehemently disagree. Love is love is love, and the Creator is smarter than any of us. If you disapprove or feel it's "wrong" somehow, then don't do it, but please do not presume to tell otherwise harmless, blameless, loving people how to live their lives. To each their own, period.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/17/2012 5:20:30 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I could take this "intelligent design" crap a lot more seriously if the human body wasn't such a shoddy piece of work. Your knees (guaranteed to wear out at least a decade before the rest of your joints), your wisdom teeth (not actually designed to fit into the gaps in your jaws), your appendix (good for killing you if it gets infected and very little else) and various other misconceived appendages and bits of offal are not intelligent design, and are even more of an argument against creationism than the panda's thumb or the New England pepper moth.
If thisshambles is God's masterwork and his last word on creation, then He didn't have a fucking clue what he was playing at and needs suing rather than worshipping...


Maybe what's needed is a notion of God that can conceive of him as being a bit incompetent and a theory of 'at times quite clever design'.


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