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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 6:14:06 PM   
joshspet1980


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Joined: 3/12/2012
From: Texas originally but live in Washington
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quote:

My understanding is that forgiveness comes about when you stop engaging in the behaviors for which you need forgiveness. There's some sort of process and I may be getting this wrong but isn't it repent and sin no more? Then there's that whole thing Jesus thing about love your neighbors as you love Jesus and leave the judging to Him? Like I said, I could be getting that wrong but saying that homosexuality is detrimental to many foundations of civilization seems like a fairly large judgement to make and that judging job already belongs to someone. Mr. Cameron is 'judging' that homosexuality is unnatural and it seems that the Jesus dude is the one to say yay or nay to that, not Mr. Cameron, not you and not anyone else.


If forgiveness comes about only when you stop doing the behavior, then how do you get forgiven for lying? Even if you say a small lie to keep from hurting someone's feelings. Have you ever called in sick to work and weren't really sick? Any sort of lie is still lying. If you told a lie and then died in a car crash in the next second and didn't ask for forgiveness for that sin then do you not get into Heaven because of that one sin you didn't get to ask forgiveness for and then stop. God's grace is something that not everyone believes in. I get that.

I went to Bible Study Fellowship last night and I had a major breakthrough on my own beliefs and faith. I am truly able to repent and turn from bisexuality completely. I spoke with CaptJosh about it when I got home and he was so happy for me. He said I was an inspiration to him to keep growing in his own walk with the Lord. Being a Christian and becoming who God wants me to be is a process. It doesn't all happen overnight. Just as a silversmith takes many sessions of purifying his silver in the fire, God is working on me. I sometimes fight Him, but I know that in the end because I have a relationship with Jesus, I will be able to see my parents again and Josh's dad, and all my other loved ones who've gone before me.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite. I am sorry I didn't state it plain out. I thought explaining what I believe about myself would answer your question. And also, I didn't say you hurt me with your words, I said you didn't. I said I won't allow you to harm me with what you said.

Also, apparently you don't realize there might be a different meaning to the word "neat". Neat can also mean nice, cool, awesome lady. It had nothing to do with your living habits.

As far as what Cameron said, I can see where if every person on the planet was homosexual and I don't mean bisexual I mean completely lesbian or completely gay, that eventually everyone would be old and dying cause there would be no births of new lives. Unless they had sex with the opposite sex solely for having children.

I have probably missed things again in this post, And I apologize for not being perfect if I did.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 6:41:15 PM   
CaptJosh


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Status: offline 		The idea is that God creates, and the Devil takes action to twist that creation outside of its intended perfection. Then God makes a way, planned from the beginning, since He saw this all would happen, for redemption, after showing us lots of ways that just laws or no laws to obey don't work to keep people from sin. It's complex and requires reading and studying to get more than a mere summary of it. And I by no means claim to know or understand all of what's there in the Book.



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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 7:13:36 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Fundementalist Christians believe that homosexuality is an abomination. "Abomination" does not mean "sin".


I had a conversation with a fundi about this last summer. His position seems to be that sexual orientation is a choice rather than innate.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 7:16:40 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Definitive proof that there is no God. I was at the pub a couple hours ago and looked over to see Kirk Cameron on TV preaching his idiocy.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 1:47:42 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joshspet1980

If forgiveness comes about only when you stop doing the behavior, then how do you get forgiven for lying?


Lies are deliberate deceptions. When I lie, I do it on purpose. To ask to be forgiven, to me, demeans the concept of a sincere apology which I will offer when I feel I've wronged someone. I don't expect to be forgiven for the things I've done on purpose and I wouldn't expect to be trusted that my apology is sincere if I make it a habit to lie. I try to avoid it but do fall short on occasion.
quote:



Have you ever called in sick to work and weren't really sick?


Nope, never. I've lied about other things but my work ethic is solid.

quote:

Any sort of lie is still lying. If you told a lie and then died in a car crash in the next second and didn't ask for forgiveness for that sin then do you not get into Heaven because of that one sin you didn't get to ask forgiveness for and then stop. God's grace is something that not everyone believes in. I get that.


I don't believe in heaven. I don't believe in hell either. Both, to me, are man-made concepts to get people to do the right thing either for a reward or for fear of consequence rather than just doing the right thing because it is the right thing.

quote:

I went to Bible Study Fellowship last night and I had a major breakthrough on my own beliefs and faith. I am truly able to repent and turn from bisexuality completely. I spoke with CaptJosh about it when I got home and he was so happy for me. He said I was an inspiration to him to keep growing in his own walk with the Lord. Being a Christian and becoming who God wants me to be is a process. It doesn't all happen overnight. Just as a silversmith takes many sessions of purifying his silver in the fire, God is working on me. I sometimes fight Him, but I know that in the end because I have a relationship with Jesus, I will be able to see my parents again and Josh's dad, and all my other loved ones who've gone before me.


I acknowledge your choice of comforts and if you are no longer bisexual and felt that being bisexual was something for which you needed to repent, then it sounds like you made the right choice for you.

quote:

I don't think I'm a hypocrite. I am sorry I didn't state it plain out. I thought explaining what I believe about myself would answer your question. And also, I didn't say you hurt me with your words, I said you didn't. I said I won't allow you to harm me with what you said.


Thank you for the clarification. You said you wouldn't 'allow' my words to harm you. Well, as they were never intended to harm, it seems to be a good thing that you didn't allow them to do so.

quote:

Also, apparently you don't realize there might be a different meaning to the word "neat". Neat can also mean nice, cool, awesome lady. It had nothing to do with your living habits.


I got it.. I wrote back some humor.. i do that quite often. I'm a happy go-lucky sort and enjoy a good punny on occasion. I use smiley faces when I do so but sometimes they aren't read the way they were intended.

quote:

As far as what Cameron said, I can see where if every person on the planet was homosexual and I don't mean bisexual I mean completely lesbian or completely gay, that eventually everyone would be old and dying cause there would be no births of new lives. Unless they had sex with the opposite sex solely for having children.




Well, that does clarify things. Leaves me somewhat gobsmacked at how far-fetched and outside of reality it truly is, but clarified none-the-less, so thank you for your answer and thank you for the conversation.

I don't buy the former, but do appreciate the latter.



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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 2:35:00 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
Fundementalist Christians believe that homosexuality is an abomination. "Abomination" does not mean "sin".


I had a conversation with a fundi about this last summer. His position seems to be that sexual orientation is a choice rather than innate.

Don't you find it amusing that these people, who insist that their own sexual behaviour is fastidiously restricted to the marriage bed and rigourously oppose sex education for children and youths, are such experts on sexual behaviour?

Where do they acquire their knowledge from? As everyone who has ever had sex knows, there's only so much you can learn about sexual behaviour from a book.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/21/2012 2:53:17 AM >

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 9:37:27 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am 100% certain that every one of these hard core christian men are A. 100% straight B.are virgins when they marry, C. only EVER have sex with their wives to create children. D. never masturbate, and E. Never EVER have sex with anyone/thing other than their wives.

Cuz yanno, they follow they are absolutely sure that's what god wants because they know the bible through and through, so well they have such expert opinions on other peoples sex lives, bodies, and personal relationships.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 10:39:03 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		More to the point, why are they so obsessed with other peoples' sex lives?  It is kind of perverted.

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:09:51 PM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

More to the point, why are they so obsessed with other peoples' sex lives?  It is kind of perverted.


You and LaTigresse have hit upon what I think is one of the major motivations of religious fundamentalists of any stripe (and, in general, any ideologue who seeks to foist his ideology upon others). The strictures of their religion are so severe that it is a very rare person who could live up to them all the time. Because they believe the literal truth of their religion they feel guilty about violating its tenets. Acknowledging our own guilt is something most people have difficulty with... if they don't find it down right impossible. Its an ego thing and the result is the projection of one's own guilt onto others. They see in the other the worst of what they see in themselves. Hence the reason why some of the worst gay bashers turn out to be closeted gays themselves, why preachers of family values are caught having mistresses, etc. It is also why I am deeply suspicious that the loudest Creationists secretly doubt their own faith and why people who scream "child pornography" over an innocent picture of a two year old in a bath tub... well, you get the idea.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:14:20 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I think you're giving them far too much credit there, frankly.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:22:39 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

I think you're giving them far too much credit there, frankly.


I don't know about that. I think LaTigresse is one of the smartest posters around here and, although she has annoyed me once or twice, I rank Iamsemisweet pretty high up too.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:23:45 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I was talking about fundamentalists who think that the renaissance was a bad idea, not posters here, Marc.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:25:22 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I was going to give you some shit but I did know what you were aiming at.

Or, maybe I was waiting until I came up with a really witty line to give you shit with..........

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:26:57 PM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

I was talking about fundamentalists who think that the renaissance was a bad idea, not posters here, Marc.




But I stand by what I said that projected guilt feelings are one of the motivations of such people.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:28:42 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think that they're projecting. They don't have enough self awareness for that.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 12:44:00 PM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

They don't have enough self awareness for that.


Careful there. You are standing at the head of a path that leads to very dark places when you start denying the other (even if your dislike of them is based upon legitimate grounds) their basic humanity. I would say that such people are very much self aware... what they lack is the courage of self honesty. I try not to beat up on people too hard for that because it is a rare quality, and even those who do exhibit such courage now and then are unable to do so all the time.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 2:03:24 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I actually think that a healthy dose of self honesty is required for self awareness.

Then again, I could be full of shit...

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 2:32:32 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

They don't have enough self awareness for that.


Careful there. You are standing at the head of a path that leads to very dark places when you start denying the other (even if your dislike of them is based upon legitimate grounds) their basic humanity. I would say that such people are very much self aware... what they lack is the courage of self honesty. I try not to beat up on people too hard for that because it is a rare quality, and even those who do exhibit such courage now and then are unable to do so all the time.

And now you're projecting, Marc.
I'm not denying anybody their humanity. The lack of courage for self awareness is (as LaTigresse says) a very human failing. That doesn't make admirable in somebody who's willing to take a crowbar to the splinter in somebody else's eye before looking at their own in a mirror, dig?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 8:50:57 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Given the huge alternative 'Christian' media network and success in taking over the GOP, and influencing the national debate, it would seem that the Religious Right is pretty aware of its own image. At a personal level, such introspection as one finds on the Right tends be directed towards sprirtuality. The idea of personal growth is tightly limited by and within the ideology and directed towards pre-set ideological goals.

Perhaps one of the things that unites believers in a given ideology is not so much the content of that ideology/belief system, but that ideology/belief system comforts similar emotional needs in the psyches of its adherents. In this view, the sexual neuroses of the Religious Right are left unacknowledged, and resolved by policing the sexual behaviour of others. This perspective would predict a focus on preventing and repressing those behaviours that believers desire the most but are barred from expressing by the ideology/belief system. Believers are forced to deny others such pleasures as they disturb and disrupt the uneasy inadequate resolution of their own sexual desires and needs.

To me this perspective is consistent with both the public evidence and how people tend to understand themselves as sexual beings.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/21/2012 9:01:29 PM >

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/21/2012 9:09:31 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
I don't believe in heaven. I don't believe in hell either. Both, to me, are man-made concepts to get people to do the right thing either for a reward or for fear of consequence rather than just doing the right thing because it is the right thing.


Or just plain to control them.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 3/21/2012 9:10:15 PM >

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