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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 5:46:20 PM   
joshspet1980


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From: Texas originally but live in Washington
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Everything Hovind claims supports creationism is a lie and he knew it was untrue when he said it. You've been defrauded.

If you don't believe me present the best evidence, in your opinion, from any Hovind video and I'll show you what is wrong with it.

The same goes for Cameron and Ray Comfort.


Did you win the prize money then? He used to offer so much money to someone who could debate him and prove to him that evolution was true. That was quite a bit if I remember right. What did you do with so much money?

_____________________________

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 5:56:33 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

Yes, I am bisexual. I think I am wrong for feeling that way. I have tried to force myself to not be that way. But, ultimately, I do find women attractive. I also know though, that I have prayed to God about it and told Him that this is something that I struggle with on many levels. I know that until I'm ready to let it go, I will have to accept less rewards when my time comes to be judged because I haven't lived the life that I should have.


As a gay man, I've wrestled with what I think is the same struggle, and my heart ached as I read this. Happily, I found that there are many godly people, both gay and straight, who accept me as I am, and that helped me learn to do so too. Finding a welcoming church, and they do exist, helped enormously.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to joshspet1980)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 6:12:12 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

As a gay man, I've wrestled with what I think is the same struggle, and my heart ached as I read this. Happily, I found that there are many godly people, both gay and straight, who accept me as I am, and that helped me learn to do so too. Finding a welcoming church, and they do exist, helped enormously.


It's tragic, to me, that you even had to *start* to struggle. Frankly,a person who doesn't accept you as you are is ungodly by definition, no matter how big a cheese he or she is, in whatever little arse of a sect or church in which he/she belongs.

Self-worth is your birthright. That is that.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 6:37:39 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joshspet1980


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Everything Hovind claims supports creationism is a lie and he knew it was untrue when he said it. You've been defrauded.

If you don't believe me present the best evidence, in your opinion, from any Hovind video and I'll show you what is wrong with it.

The same goes for Cameron and Ray Comfort.


Did you win the prize money then? He used to offer so much money to someone who could debate him and prove to him that evolution was true. That was quite a bit if I remember right. What did you do with so much money?

If you had a clue about science, you would know that you cannot PROVE anything. You can only DISPROVE all the possible alternatives. That is why Hovind made his outlandish claim. He understands the scientific method better than his followers.

_____________________________

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 6:40:51 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

t's tragic, to me, that you even had to *start* to struggle.


Agreed. But that's the hand some of us are dealt.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 6:58:22 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

t's tragic, to me, that you even had to *start* to struggle.


Agreed. But that's the hand some of us are dealt.


I know it's all very easy for me to say, DC, but sometimes the only answer is to throw away the hand you've been dealt and tell the dealer to shove the his entire game up his arse. In essence, you don't fight logic with logic, nor even irrational belief with whatever weapon you reckon works best against that particular carbuncle. What you do is just walk away. If you're fighting something, you're still being detained by it, being held back by it.

It's an easy mistake, I think, to assume that if you don't feel that you're winning, this must be because you've not fought hard enough. But often, the real answer is that you're losing only because you're bothering to fight at all. There's nothing to fight. These people are nothing, and their beliefs and arguments are nothing. No point in fighting nothing.

Pfft. One day, I reckon you'll think 'Well, I *would* argue this matter with you,mate, but I don't have the time. I need to be back at home, bonking my partner into oblivion. Sorry. '




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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 8:09:12 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joshspet1980


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Everything Hovind claims supports creationism is a lie and he knew it was untrue when he said it. You've been defrauded.

If you don't believe me present the best evidence, in your opinion, from any Hovind video and I'll show you what is wrong with it.

The same goes for Cameron and Ray Comfort.


Did you win the prize money then? He used to offer so much money to someone who could debate him and prove to him that evolution was true. That was quite a bit if I remember right. What did you do with so much money?

Hovind's "prize" was yet another scam. You do know he's in prison for trying to defraud the government?

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html

But still what is the one thing Hovind claims you find most convincing?

(in reply to joshspet1980)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 9:16:38 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joshspet1980


I also know that because of my relationship and faith and belief in Jesus Christ, that my sins will be forgiven.


My understanding is that forgiveness comes about when you stop engaging in the behaviors for which you need forgiveness. There's some sort of process and I may be getting this wrong but isn't it repent and sin no more? Then there's that whole thing Jesus thing about love your neighbors as you love Jesus and leave the judging to Him? Like I said, I could be getting that wrong but saying that homosexuality is detrimental to many foundations of civilization seems like a fairly large judgement to make and that judging job already belongs to someone. Mr. Cameron is 'judging' that homosexuality is unnatural and it seems that the Jesus dude is the one to say yay or nay to that, not Mr. Cameron, not you and not anyone else.

quote:

I confess that it is wrong for me to feel that way. But, then I've lived with men when I was still married to someone else, I didn't wait until marriage to have sex, I cuss, I have been sexually immoral in so many ways, I have lied, I have cheated, I have done so many wrong things in my life. And I don't know a single person who hasn't done any single thing wrong in their life or never made a mistake. I am not a hypocrite for agreeing with Kirk Cameron if I believe that about myself.


That did not answer my question which was.. can you enumerate (since you agree with Mr. Cameron) the 'many foundations of civilization' which will suffer? What are the foundations? How is civilization going to suffer if the GLBT community and is simply allowed to exist and it's members and are just left alone?

quote:

And I'm not ashamed to say that. I know that my Lord forgives me.


Okay, that's cool. You have faith. I think it's awesome that you do. I don't have that sort of faith so have to muddle through just trying to be the best bitatruble I can be and leave it at that.

quote:

I apologize for offending you and anyone else, but I will not allow your words to hurt my heart or kill my spirit, nor my faith.


You didn't offend me at all. And if my words hurt, you will have to take responsibility for your reaction to them. I don't believe that mere words on a kinky internet forum can kill the faith of another (unless it's not a very strong faith) nor would I make such an attempt. If your faith comforts you, I think that's great. I don't think less of you or more of you for having faith. Some are comforted by faith, some by food, some by friends or family and so on and so forth. I'm very open-minded to any and all forms of comfort especially those things in which I don't have some sort of personal stake.

I am simply asking questions. Mr. Cameron isn't here and since you stated that you agree with him, I'm trying to find out what, exactly, are the dire consequences of homosexuality to society. GLBT folks have been around for a pretty long time now and the population continues to rise, so it can't be that we're going to run out of people.. I don't think the food supply is in danger because of gays.. businesses seem to do okay with lesbians shopping for shoes and I don't think gas prices are directly related to sexual orientation or trans folk. I guess I just can't see how what I do in my bedroom makes all that much difference to society. Does it matter if I'm in there with a man or with a woman and if it does.. why does it? You're the believer here, so maybe you can explain it? Or maybe you can't.. I don't know so that's why I'm asking.

I'm trying to find out ... what is it that you are actually agreeing with? What are the 'many' foundations that are in such dire straights? Who are gays, lesbians et al hurting with their private and personal behavior?

quote:


I still think you are a neat person because you like Star Trek too from your profile. And thank you for voicing your opinions and for pointing out my faults which is what Kirk Cameron was doing for me too. I need to remember where my failings are so that I can eventually work on improving them.

What faults did I point out? I read over my post to you and it seems that I asked you a series of questions.. very few which you answered and, of course, the most important one you didn't even address. I did ask if you felt you were a hypocrite and from your post, you seem to believe you are and that's okay, too. At least you admit it and I give you kudos for the admission. Not many here will take ownership of that so it's refreshing to see someone who does.

The only opinion that I offered was that I find it extraordinary that a bisexual women would live a life that she finds detrimental to society. It's almost as though you are making a deliberate attempt to hurt society (by your own standard) and I, for the life of me, don't see what it is that you are doing that's so bad or how it's going to effect the rest of us who share the planet with you.

My relationship with Star Trek falls just short of obsession but it's not what makes me a neat person. Some days I'm downright sloppy (not often though.. I'm a bit of a germ-o-phobe and have been known to get up in the middle of the night to wash the DomDudes last glass that he left in the sink before hitting the sack!)

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 9:22:52 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		NM

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/19/2012 9:25:32 PM >

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/19/2012 10:22:19 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		There is absolutely nothing wrong with being bisexual, it is completely moral. The actual sin, was commited by those who taught you to believe otherwise.

(in reply to joshspet1980)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:47:40 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I think one cast member is a former Congressman
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Well, he *was* on TV. Long time ago. I wonder where the cast of the Love Boat is nowadays....


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:50:24 AM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		He stars in movies directed towards Christians, like the Left Behind series. Apparently, the bible thumpers eat that shit up, so Cameron is a big star in those circles.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

Because he's on TV.


He has a current programme playing now? (current as in, not reruns of some tripe he did when he was a child)


_____________________________

Alice: But I don't want to go among mad people.
The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 9:03:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

As a gay man, I've wrestled with what I think is the same struggle, and my heart ached as I read this. Happily, I found that there are many godly people, both gay and straight, who accept me as I am, and that helped me learn to do so too. Finding a welcoming church, and they do exist, helped enormously.


It's tragic, to me, that you even had to *start* to struggle. Frankly,a person who doesn't accept you as you are is ungodly by definition, no matter how big a cheese he or she is, in whatever little arse of a sect or church in which he/she belongs.

Self-worth is your birthright. That is that.


This. So much this.

I read what DC writes and Joshspet and it just makes me so sad and angry. I am so sickened by modern christianity for preaching such hatred intolerance. Even less so hatred and intolerance of others, but the soul destroying hatred and intolerance of self. To me, that's what creates the hatred and intolerance towards others.

If I remember correctly, humans were supposed to have been created in god's image. So how on earth can being ourselves be so horribly wrong and shameful?

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/20/2012 9:05:25 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 10:07:38 AM   
GotSteel


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Joined: 2/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I read what DC writes and Joshspet and it just makes me so sad and angry. I am so sickened by modern christianity for preaching such hatred intolerance. Even less so hatred and intolerance of others, but the soul destroying hatred and intolerance of self. To me, that's what creates the hatred and intolerance towards others.

If I remember correctly, humans were supposed to have been created in god's image. So how on earth can being ourselves be so horribly wrong and shameful?




The abusive, dehumanizing, sex negative teachings that have been worked into our culture are the reason why I spend time talking about religion on this site.

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:01:52 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		<fr>

Oh dear. Writers strike out sometimes, and it looks like I may have done so in my message to joshspet.

I was actually trying to offer hope--to say, as one who's been there, that one needn't choose between faith and authenticity, that one can grow beyond internalized homophobia.

ETA: Gene Robinson, Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire, says well what I've been trying to get across.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 3/20/2012 5:10:25 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:25:32 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		This is going to be a bit long so, I apologize, in advance. Also, I going to start with what might seem like an outrageous statement but, please read on and let me explain.

Be it resolved: The very existence of homosexuals proves that the fundementalists are wrong.

Okay. Here goes ...

God is a an all- powerful, all-knowing, all-loving and benevolent being. Nothing is difficult or impossible for God and God would never be redundant or ridiculous.

God created mankind to show his love and for man to be happy with Him, forever, in heaven. God wants all men to reach heaven.

(here is where it gets "sticky")

Fundementalist Christians believe that homosexuality is an abomination. "Abomination" does not mean "sin".

God created the idea of sin. He is the creator of all things.

Being the creator of all things, He also created man, each and every one of them that's ever been an ever will be because God has no begin or end. He is timeless.

If God created man, including homosexuals, and God wants mankind to be happy with Him in heaven, why would He create something that is part of being human that would bar mankind from heaven?

Surely, God can never be redundant or ridiculous? God must not see homosexuality as a sin since sin bars one from heaven.

Therefore, I say it again: using Fundementalist Christian logic, the very fact that homosexuals exist, proves that Fundies are wrong.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 3/20/2012 5:34:31 PM >

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:44:37 PM   
CaptJosh


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		Except that you left out Satan, a rebellious heavenly being who perverted God's creation, and altered things so that God must now redeem mankind, rather than having always been in relationship with us.

If you're going to argue based on someone else's premise, do argue based on the WHOLE premise. Otherwise, you have what is known as a straw man argument.

Admittedly, I have left out a lot of detail about how each part of the Bible shows how God demonstrates things that won't work, up until the 400 years of silence between Old and New Testaments when Jesus comes along, but I figured just pointing out one major part of the premise that was ignored would be sufficient for now.

_____________________________

CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary and those who don't.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:49:36 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		Only God has the power of creation and only God can allow access to heaven. Satan can try and corrupt all he wants but in the end, God sits in judgement.

I appreciate you equating my omission of Satan to a "strawman argument" but that doesn't change the fact that "the devil made me do it" is a weak-assed argument from a person who doesn't take responsibility for their actions.

No, homosexuality may not be "the norm" but the fact that it occurs in all creatures leads me to know that it is "natural". And NO ONE interferes with natural law which comes from God.



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to CaptJosh)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 5:55:38 PM   
CaptJosh


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/12/2012
Status: offline 		Oh I never went with "The Devil made me do it." That's contrary to free will. The Devil may tempt, contrive, make appealing, etc., but may not MAKE someone do anything, any more than God, operating within the laws he put in place, may MAKE someone convert to a follower.

And as far as that natural law goes, part of that law is that when Adam did what the Devil wanted him to, he voluntarily gave dominion of the Earth, at least for a time, to the Devil, until the time of Redemption. So while God is, in the final analysis, in control, the Devil still has limited authority on Earth.

EDIT: Added a missing comma in the first paragraph

< Message edited by CaptJosh -- 3/20/2012 6:05:33 PM >

_____________________________

CaptJosh

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
those who understand binary and those who don't.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Kirk Cameron Doesn't Like Homosexuality - 3/20/2012 6:08:22 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline 		So, the devil creates man and all living creatures that are by either their individual nature or by the law of nature, homosexual? Or does God still retain the sole power of creation?



Peace and comfort,



Michael

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to CaptJosh)
Profile   Post #: 120
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