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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/22/2012 6:11:54 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
If Martin wasn't a martial arts expert, how did he force Zimmerman out of the car. Force him down the street and into someone's back yard , bloody his nose, cut his head and give him an all round ass whoopin to the point where Zimmerman feared for his life and had to draw and fire while chatting with his GF on the cell phone?


Exactly. The girlfriends story just doesn't add up does it? Telling him to run, then admitting he didn't. Like I said before...if someone's coming after him with a gun and he chooses not to run, Zimmerman was right to be afraid. Martin was clearly crazy.....or the girlfriend is lying through her teeth in her haste to fabricate evidence.


How does the story not add up. He was talking to her about a guy following him said "there he is again" and she told him to run and he didn't? Do you do everything a woman tells you to? How does that not follow the physical evidence? (not like the SPD bothered to collect any)

Nice try at twisting, trimming and cherry picking what I said. Please read it again. Here's the Reader's Digest Condensed Version for those who have a short attention span. "How did Martin get Zimmerman out of his car, force him down the street and beat him to the point where he was afraid for his live while chatting with his gf on a cell phone?" Even Chuck Norris Can't do that.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 3/22/2012 6:14:15 AM >

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/22/2012 7:08:20 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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Oh, but I think we are overlooking something here at our peril.

(you listening DM? this is just for you, sweetheart)

The emergency dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin, so Zimmerman says "OK" but obviously, by the recording, continues pursuit.

But then Martin's g/f tells him to run, and Martin says "No, I'm not going to run, I'm just going to walk fast."

There we have it; Zimmerman not guilty! Because even though Zimmerman continued to pursue, he said "OK" to official personnel, but Martin said "No" to his g/f as he kept on walking faster.

Regardless of real actions and real intent, Zimmerman said "OK" and Martin said "No" to his g/f.

That proves Zimmerman's innocence beyond any doubt, because he said "OK" to an official person. It's on the record.

(ahem .... clears choking in throat ... stifles erupting laughter ... )




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/22/2012 7:10:58 AM >

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/22/2012 11:50:33 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Even if this teen (enough of a distinction from 'kid' for you?) was a professionally trained fighter who somehow managed to overcome the weight difference and land a blow, there's no evidence that it wasn't because HE feared for his safety. Since skittles aren't as effective a weapon as a gun, he couldn't shoot Zimmerman, but perhaps he sees some hulking oaf following him, doesn't know what his intentions are and is trying to protect himself by disabling the guy long enough to get away.


Thank you. That's what I was thinking too. But of course that would mean Martin initiated the physical confrontation, not Zimmerman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
The amount of mental gymnastics you're going through on this thread to try to support Zimmerman's bullshit claim of feeling threatened is amazing.


Not really, when you consider my original stance. I don't support his claim. I support the assertion by the police that, absent any concrete proof to dispute it, there's little they can do. Think about Casey Anthony. It's widely believed by many she caused, or at least hand a hand in her daughter's death. Yet she is free, found not guilty in a court of law. Reasonable doubt is a bitch. And Zimmermn's case reeks of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Considering the numbnuts on this particular police force didn't bother to do any kind of tests, the blood on Zimmerman's head could have been transferred there after he shot the boy, he could have tripped and hit his head - there are any number of ways he could have gotten blood on his head, and no one will ever know because the police didn't bother to even investigate this case to include or exclude any of the things Zimmerman told them. It stinks to high heaven that this guy's claims haven't at least been properly investigated.


Because the police, while knowing he could have bloodied himself up, also know there's no way to *prove* that he did. Remember what lawyers love to say -- "It's not what you know or what you believe, it's what you can *prove*." That is how ou beloved justice system works. You can't convict a guy just because you know he did something. You have to prove it....beyond a reasonable doubt.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/22/2012 11:53:45 PM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
You're contradicting yourself. In an earlier post you mentioned feeling threatened when someone ran up to you in an isolated environment. If you were on the beach during the day and someone went jogging by, I doubt you'd feel threatened. If you're a 140lb kid - even a super ninja 140lb kid - seemingly alone in an unfamiliar environment (that you have every right to be in) and a much bigger guy who you don't know is approaching you, I don't know how you can say with a straight face that someone couldn't possibly perceive that as aggressive behavior.


Different situations. In my case, the guy was sprinting directly at me, looking right at me as I was the only one there.

In this case, Zimmerman told the dispatcher he was following. Again, I've followed many people without ever approaching or making any kind of contact with them. And as we have no concrete proof that Zimmerman did other than exactly what he stayed, all we have is tons of reasonable doubt.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:02:15 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Who's to say she didn't bring it up earlier, or that she knew what Zimmerman's claims were prior to offering evidence to refute them?


Simple, had she brought it up, we'd have heard bout it before. Unless of course think the media would deliberately hold it back to help the cops cover things up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Sigh. That's part of the problem with your continued insistence that "no one knows for sure" in the face of evidence to the contrary. Had the police actually done their jobs and opened an investigation, where they collected evidence that could be tested and used to support Zimmerman's version of events, I might give you half a point. The fact that no one even bothered to collect evidence is part of the problem.

Reasonable doubt shouldn't be created because the police are incompetent and don't bother to do their jobs.


I'm sure police can tell whe a case reeks of so much reasonable doubt they would be wasting their time. They are capable of making mistakes, of course. But overall, I'd wager they know what does and does not constitute reasonable doubt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
No, it's because as stupid as some of your reasoning is, you weren't stupid enough to get out of your car, approach the person once they got out of their car and start mouthing off about what you thought of their driving.


Very well. And how do you explain my lack of a physical confrontation with the shady-looking guy I followed in my own apartment complex who explained to me his presence there, even though he didn't have to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Fixed that for you.


No, you made it wrong...unless of course were there and actually witnessed Zimmerman start the fight.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:08:02 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
And now this ninja football playing thug life monster is crazy because he doesn't move fast enough?


It does speak to the logical argument about Zimmerman not "chasing him down while screaming and waving a gun." If Zimmerman had done that, then Martin's refusal to run isn't just crazy, it's stupid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
Plus, since he was already suspicious for walking while black, I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have taken him running while black to be an obvious sign that he was "up to no good."


Obvious race card attempt not withstanding, if Martin did run, he probably would have been able to leave Zimmerman in the dust, up to no good or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 4u2spoil
There are phone records to support the girlfriend, witnesses have started to come out to state that the police encouraged them to change their stories, or coached them heavily on what to say.


Considering the veritable coalition that's come out against the cops, I'm sure many witnesses will say that so they don't have the appearance of supporting the police. Not that it will matter when the inevitable riots start.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:08:12 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"actually witnessed Zimmerman start the fight."


Ummmmm.....the man chaced the kid w/ a gun and cornered him........

Looks like Zimmerman started something......

I guess you would have just layed down belly-up........and submitted?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 3/23/2012 12:09:29 AM >

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:10:34 AM   
DarqueMirror


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Joined: 3/21/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
Would a reasonable person having called 9-1-1 and knowing the police were responding, exit the safety of their car, and pursue someone whom they thought could be dangerous?


If they were looking out for the safety of their neighbors, I'd sure hope so.


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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:12:02 AM   
erieangel


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Joined: 6/19/2011
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quote:

Not really, when you consider my original stance. I don't support his claim. I support the assertion by the police that, absent any concrete proof to dispute it, there's little they can do. Think about Casey Anthony. It's widely believed by many she caused, or at least hand a hand in her daughter's death. Yet she is free, found not guilty in a court of law. Reasonable doubt is a bitch. And Zimmermn's case reeks of it.


The difference between Anthony and Zimmerman is stark. Anthony was actually arrested, charged, tried and acquitted. While I don't agree with that verdict, justice was served. Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged. The shooting wasn't even investigated properly on the night that it happened. How is that justice?

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Profile   Post #: 229
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:12:52 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How does the story not add up. He was talking to her about a guy following him said "there he is again" and she told him to run and he didn't? Do you do everything a woman tells you to? How does that not follow the physical evidence? (not like the SPD bothered to collect any)

Nice try at twisting, trimming and cherry picking what I said. Please read it again. Here's the Reader's Digest Condensed Version for those who have a short attention span. "How did Martin get Zimmerman out of his car, force him down the street and beat him to the point where he was afraid for his live while chatting with his gf on a cell phone?" Even Chuck Norris Can't do that.


He didn't force him. But how did Zimmerman getting out of his car force Martin into a physical confrontation? (Anser: it didn't.)

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Profile   Post #: 230
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:15:35 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn
The emergency dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin, so Zimmerman says "OK" but obviously, by the recording, continues pursuit.

But then Martin's g/f tells him to run, and Martin says "No, I'm not going to run, I'm just going to walk fast."

There we have it; Zimmerman not guilty! Because even though Zimmerman continued to pursue, he said "OK" to official personnel, but Martin said "No" to his g/f as he kept on walking faster.

Regardless of real actions and real intent, Zimmerman said "OK" and Martin said "No" to his g/f.

That proves Zimmerman's innocence beyond any doubt, because he said "OK" to an official person. It's on the record.


Sarcasm and name calling aside, it doesn't matter that what you've stated here doesn't prove his innocence. In our justice system, the accused doesn't have to prove innocence. The accusers must prove guilt, yes beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Profile   Post #: 231
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:17:41 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"actually witnessed Zimmerman start the fight."


Ummmmm.....the man chaced the kid w/ a gun and cornered him........

Looks like Zimmerman started something......

I guess you would have just layed down belly-up........and submitted?


Chased down and cornered hmm? You're able to get "chased down and corned" from "Are you following him?" "Yeah."

Truly amazing. Can you give me Friday's lottery numbers?

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Profile   Post #: 232
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 12:24:52 AM   
DarqueMirror


Posts: 1262
Joined: 3/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
The difference between Anthony and Zimmerman is stark. Anthony was actually arrested, charged, tried and acquitted. While I don't agree with that verdict, justice was served. Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged. The shooting wasn't even investigated properly on the night that it happened. How is that justice?


Cops do it all the time. It's called using ther own judgment in the performance of their duties. How much investigating do they need to do that they haven't done? Talk to the shooter? Check. Talk to witnesses? Check. Gunshot residue test? Not needed, Zimmerman admitted to the shooting. I'm sure they're doing a post-mortem exam on Martin's body. I'm sure the investigation itself is still on-going (especially since they've stated it was). What else do they need to do that they haven't done? Why must they have the guy in custody for any of it? If the investigation comes to conclude it would be prudent to arrest Zimmerman, he will be arrested.

What do they need to do that requires Zimmerman being in custody that they couldn't do with him free?

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 3:08:41 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		It finally hit the dutch national news last night. Just to show you how long it takes for this kinda news to spread round the world.

We just passed a law last year that makes it easier for us to defend our house with proportionate violence.
2 weeks later there was an incident a guy got beat up severly who was lured into a hells angels hide out.
Things will always be abused.
I am for the law change, but it happened.
Thing is with the US, IMO, this should be federal law not statelaw.
Life and death situations concerns all.
Although I do see advantages as well for more state legislations in regard to freedom.
But not on this one.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 4:17:49 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
How does the story not add up. He was talking to her about a guy following him said "there he is again" and she told him to run and he didn't? Do you do everything a woman tells you to? How does that not follow the physical evidence? (not like the SPD bothered to collect any)

Nice try at twisting, trimming and cherry picking what I said. Please read it again. Here's the Reader's Digest Condensed Version for those who have a short attention span. "How did Martin get Zimmerman out of his car, force him down the street and beat him to the point where he was afraid for his live while chatting with his gf on a cell phone?" Even Chuck Norris Can't do that.


He didn't force him. But how did Zimmerman getting out of his car force Martin into a physical confrontation? (Anser: it didn't.)



As long as we're speculating, let's point out that it's JUST AS VALID to speculate that Zimmerman tried to abduct and sexually assault Martin.

Aren't kids supposed to fight back when child molesters try to abduct them?

In this case, Martin is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in fighting for his life.


< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/23/2012 4:20:12 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 4:21:59 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59
"actually witnessed Zimmerman start the fight."


Ummmmm.....the man chaced the kid w/ a gun and cornered him........

Looks like Zimmerman started something......

I guess you would have just layed down belly-up........and submitted?


Chased down and cornered hmm? You're able to get "chased down and corned" from "Are you following him?" "Yeah."

Truly amazing. Can you give me Friday's lottery numbers?


The FUCKING 9-1-1 tapes have ZIMMERMAN RECORDED CHASING AFTER MARTIN.

quote:


The dispatcher, hearing heavy breathing on the phone, asked Zimmerman: "Are you following him?" "Yeah," Zimmerman said. "Okay, we don’t need you to do that," the dispatcher responded.



So, if Zimmerman is CHASING Martin on the 9-1-1 tape,

and Martin ends up dead by Zimmerman, hand.

Zimmerman MUST HAVE CAUGHT UP WITH HIM.

And then shot him dead.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/23/2012 4:23:05 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 236
RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 9:20:04 AM   
erieangel


Posts: 2237
Joined: 6/19/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarqueMirror


quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
The difference between Anthony and Zimmerman is stark. Anthony was actually arrested, charged, tried and acquitted. While I don't agree with that verdict, justice was served. Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged. The shooting wasn't even investigated properly on the night that it happened. How is that justice?


Cops do it all the time. It's called using ther own judgment in the performance of their duties. How much investigating do they need to do that they haven't done? Talk to the shooter? Check. Talk to witnesses? Check. Gunshot residue test? Not needed, Zimmerman admitted to the shooting. I'm sure they're doing a post-mortem exam on Martin's body. I'm sure the investigation itself is still on-going (especially since they've stated it was). What else do they need to do that they haven't done? Why must they have the guy in custody for any of it? If the investigation comes to conclude it would be prudent to arrest Zimmerman, he will be arrested.

What do they need to do that requires Zimmerman being in custody that they couldn't do with him free?



Um. No. The job of the police is to collect all of the evidence. Where are the tests on trajectory? Where is the gunshot residue test on Martin and his clothing to see just how close they were when Zimmerman shot him?

It isn't the job of the police to determine if there is too much reasonable doubt to bring an arrest. The determination of reasonable doubt and how it is used prior to trial is the job of the district attorney. But I guess there was also too much reasonable doubt to arrest the son of a Sanford police lieutenant beat up and put a homeless man in the hospital. Too much reasonable doubt there, even though the guy taped doing it he still was not arrest. The Sanford police dept. is corrupt to its core and that is the only reason why Zimmerman hasn't been arrested.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 9:26:20 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		You don't really need a whole lot more 'evidence' than the dead kid on the ground, and the guy holding the LITERAL smoking gun saying "I did it"...

You file a felony information for manslaughter, hold him for arraignment, and if his attorney has any pretrial motions to make, then that's his opportunity.

It's called "Criminal Procedure Law". And it's all written down...

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 11:12:23 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I have a question, in every neighborhood watch I have ever belonged to, we were NOT allowed to carry guns. My question is simple, is the town somehow different and the neighborhood watch people are allowed to carry guns and act with the authority of police?


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: He was armed with skittles and ice tea... - 3/23/2012 11:30:26 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		George Zimmerman was the only member of the Forever Alone Neighborhood Watch he founded all by himself.

There's no Neighborhood Watch there. It's just the cover story Zimmerman used to go peeping in other people's windows, and stalk and kill black kids like they're animals.

< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/23/2012 11:31:32 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Profile   Post #: 240
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