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Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 3:06:00 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		March 17, 2012 (Lemon Grove)—Lemon Grove resident Michael John Kobulnicky, 50, a leader in the San Diego Tea Party and former regional director of the Southern California Conservative Party, is under arrest for allegedly kidnapping and raping a local woman on Fiesta Island.

“He dragged her out of the car and sexually assaulted her pretty brutally,” San Diego Police Lt. Andra Brown told ECM news partner 10 News in late February, shortly after the February 25 assault occurred.

On his website, http://www.michaelkobulnickyusa.com, Kobulnicky lists his leadership roles as “currently the co-organizer and public relations representative for the San Diego Tea Party.”

After Kobulnicky’s arrest, the San Diego Tea Party issued a statement indicating that Kobulnicky took leave the group in January for personal reasons and had not been in touch since then, the San Diego Union-Tribune reports. He has been removed from his position while the legal process runs its course, the statement said, adding that “"Our hearts and our thoughts go out to the victim.”

The suspect previously identified himself with the Conservative Party USA. In 2009, he was listed as regional director of the Southern California Conservative Party, according to http://conservativepartyusa.org/bios/kobulnicky.html

According to his website, Kobulnicky supports Christian values, is a father of five sons, and is co-founder and president of the National Council of Americans, Inc, a nonprofit that helps youths.

He also lists prior employment as faculty at California Miramar University, teacher and coach at Val Verde Unified School District, manager of a landscape design company, and more.

His Facebook page indicates he became engaged in early March and planned to be married in April. Kobulnicky, who is divorced, was accused of domestic violence in 2008, San Diego Superior Court records indicate.

According to police, Kobulnicky offered a ride to a woman walking on Linda Vista Road around 7 p.m. on February 25. But instead of taking her home, he drove to Fiesta Island. There, the 205-pound, 6 ft. 3-inch tall suspect is accused of pulling the victim out of the vehicle and sexually assaulted the 56-year-old woman, then leaving her on the island.

He is charged with rape, kidnapping, and forcible sex with a foreign object. Evidence includes surveillance video shot at a local convenience store shortly before the kidnapping occurred. Kobulnicky is being held without bail pending arraignment on Monday.

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/9044

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement, there is such a disconnect here between their "values" and the truth.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 3:08:19 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Actually, while we have histrionic idiots on here claiming that a few arrests of people who may be plants discredits the whole of the OWS bunch, there's no earthly reason why this twat can't be similarly treated as an avatar for the whole of the tea party.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 3:11:37 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Point made.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 3:13:42 PM   
ConfidencePlays


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Actually, while we have histrionic idiots on here claiming that a few arrests of people who may be plants discredits the whole of the OWS bunch, there's no earthly reason why this twat can't be similarly treated as an avatar for the whole of the tea party.



... It's kind of annoying that I have no choice but to agree with you. Two wrongs don't make a right but at least it's fair.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 3:23:17 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Two wrongs never make a right, but at least they balance.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 4:29:54 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement, there is such a disconnect here between their "values" and the truth.


How is it that in a nation guided by Christian morality we have so many killers, rapists, and pedophiles? Maybe the morality is a delusion? Something is wrong here.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 4:46:15 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Because its "popular" to run on "christian values". As I have said before.... many people use religion to advance their own agendas. That isnt a religious person.. that isnt a christian person.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/17/2012 10:03:21 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

.............many people use religion to advance their own agendas. That isnt a religious person.. that isnt a christian person.


Exactly.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 4:25:51 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement, there is such a disconnect here between their "values" and the truth.


You mean the truth as in this guy doesn't represent any group and is a responsible for his own actions? Because that's the truth. But go ahead and try to explain why one mans actions should reflect on anyone but that one man. Moon has already started with the "well someone else does it to" so maybe you can come up with something more imaginative.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 4:58:10 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement, there is such a disconnect here between their "values" and the truth.


You mean the truth as in this guy doesn't represent any group and is a responsible for his own actions? Because that's the truth. But go ahead and try to explain why one mans actions should reflect on anyone but that one man. Moon has already started with the "well someone else does it to" so maybe you can come up with something more imaginative.


Perhaps the disconnect can be traced back to the Bible.

The Bible has quite a few less-than-exemplary mentions of rape. Here's one:

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


There are an awful lot more. This particular mention is far from the worst. They are all conveniently listed here.

So the argument can be made that rape is an age old Biblically-mandated and -approved tradition. After all conservative christians are the ones who insist that the Bible is God's word to be taken literally and obeyed scrupulously in every respect. If the above is taken literally, rape can be seen as a Biblical form of courtship.

Charming isn't it?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/18/2012 5:07:45 AM >

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 7:55:23 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is in there too. Do you think rank and file Christians are out on Wiccan hunts??

According to Susan Brownmiller in Against Our Will, states that the Talmud has laws concerning the prostitution of 3 year old girls.

Your anti-religion bias axe is sharp enough.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 8:10:30 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement, there is such a disconnect here between their "values" and the truth.


You mean the truth as in this guy doesn't represent any group and is a responsible for his own actions? Because that's the truth. But go ahead and try to explain why one mans actions should reflect on anyone but that one man. Moon has already started with the "well someone else does it to" so maybe you can come up with something more imaginative.


quote:

While I do realize this isnt the only representative of the christian conservative movement


quote:

Because its "popular" to run on "christian values". As I have said before.... many people use religion to advance their own agendas. That isnt a religious person.. that isnt a christian person.


The disconnect is between what people are claiming are their values, and the truth.

Now, quit your pouting and grab a juice box. 

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 3/18/2012 8:13:08 AM >

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 8:59:28 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

So the argument can be made that rape is an age old Biblically-mandated and -approved tradition. After all conservative christians are the ones who insist that the Bible is God's word to be taken literally and obeyed scrupulously in every respect. If the above is taken literally, rape can be seen as a Biblical form of courtship.

Charming isn't it?


Not at all. Not that I'm trying to defend societal practices of that age, but that was considered quite a punishment, and the intent was because the man had violated her and made her "undesirable", it became his responsibility to pay restitution and take care of her.

I'm certainly glad we've evolved since then, but that passage certainly wasn't in support of rape.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 9:33:06 AM   
xssve


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Status: offline 		So is the bible inerrant or not?

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 9:37:05 AM   
Raiikun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

So is the bible inerrant or not?


I'm pretty sure that those were the laws at the time, so not sure how it being written what those laws were is an error.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 10:49:27 AM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: xssve

So is the bible inerrant or not?


I'm pretty sure that those were the laws at the time, so not sure how it being written what those laws were is an error.

So it depends on the situation? The people? The time? The place? Isn't that moral relativism?

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 12:28:00 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:


So the argument can be made that rape is an age old Biblically-mandated and -approved tradition.


Only if you are really, really desperate to appear stupid.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 12:31:53 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

Now, quit your pouting and grab a juice box.


aww, isn't that cute. Implying I am a child without actually saying it to slide by the moderators. You are a charmer aren't you.

But go ahead and ignore the title of the thread "Conservative christian values now include rape?" I am sure you weren't trying to imply anything with that either.

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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 12:34:13 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 3/18/2012 12:39:38 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Now, quit your pouting and grab a juice box.


aww, isn't that cute. Implying I am a child without actually saying it to slide by the moderators. You are a charmer aren't you.

But go ahead and ignore the title of the thread "Conservative christian values now include rape?" I am sure you weren't trying to imply anything with that either.

Nothing implied at all, straight up, if you believe in biblical inerrancy, Christian values condone rape: it's right there in Black and White.

If you don't believe that, then you're a moral relativist: it's either Christian values or the bible's wrong.

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