Aswad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vincentML
How is it that in a nation guided by Christian morality we have so many killers, rapists, and pedophiles? Maybe the morality is a delusion? Something is wrong here.
I've underlined the 'something' which is wrong.
The USA is not, and has never been, guided by Christian morality. It has, at times, claimed Christianity when such has been a convenient way to bolster support for what it was going to do anyway (e.g. black slavery, propaganda in the Cold War, current anti-woman laws, etc.), much as the jihadists claim Islamic support for their actions when it is convenient.
Apart from that, the terms Christian and Muslim have the effective meaning, in American English, of "Westerner" and "Arab", respectively. In all fairness, the terms have a historical meaning that serves as a basis for this use, as well. Also, others are increasingly adopting this use of the terms, which I see very prominently in Norway (where "Muslim" is not a term that covers Bosnian muslims, Indian muslims and so forth, while it does include Turkish atheists, but primarily designates African and Middle-Eastern people of any religion).
Christian, in this historically minded sense, refers to the part of the world once known as Christendom, with no regard for religion and only nominal regard for land. It is a cultural and/or ethnic term, much as Jew is a cultural and ethnic term. Muslim, in the same sense, refers to the part of the world first unified by the standardization of the Qu'ran, and in some cases the territories that were conquered by those people. For the most part, it does not refer to the extent of Islam, but rather to the extent of the culture and ethnicity in question.
The Catholic founding fathers had an idea of cultural and spiritual unity based on the success of the Roman empire, which was followed up with conquest. The prophet of Islam also had a vision of cultural and spiritual unity that was based on the success of Christendom, and successors carried on that vision, starting with the standardization of the Qu'ran. In both cases, it is quite questionable whether those that carried the torch carried it well, but regardless, the notion of a united and harmonious humanity was part of the original idea.
Of course, the whole thing could be resolved by using more accurate terms.
Another word for Christian, in this increasingly common sense, is what is also known as the "culturally conservative" branch of right wing nationalism. In other words, the ideology that was behind a number of recent acts of terrorism in the west, and will be behind others in the near future. The example closest to my heart is, of course, the Utøya massacre on 7/22 here in Norway, where Anders B. Breivik killed some 70'ish children, wounded some 100'ish or so, and traumatized the 350'ish survivors, after blowing up two key government buildings. His rhetoric is remarkably similar to what I hear on these boards from some posters every day, and hear from prominent U.S. right wing speakers and "Republicans" on a regular basis.
Around here, this hasn't gone unnoticed.
We pin it as a radical, culturally conservative, national socialist movement in response to the fear of Islam. Which we have far more reason to worry about than the USA does, seeing as nearly half of our net population in the capital, and one third in the other major cities, will consist of first and second generation "Muslim" immigrants by 2040 according to the projections in the official statistics by the census bureau. Primarily from the most backwards countries (e.g. Somalia). This does not count unintegrated third and later generations, which there are substantial ghettos of in the capital and major cities. Yes, we have a representative democracy, and our demographic is shifting by our own doing. We're officially not sure this is a problem, but we're debating it. And we're sticking to the issue, rather than simply going ballistic and calling it Christianity.
Correctly identifying the "conservative Christian right" as a dawning national socialist wing in your own culture would go a long way toward alerting people to the divide that has come to the forefront. It may have existed for a long time, for all I know, but from the perspective of an outsider, it came with 9/11... for us, 7/22 had similar effects, as a result of the intense media debate about the motives of the perpetrator. (In that sense, maybe ABB got what he wanted all along.)
Failure to identify and address the problem can and will lead to a new nazi government.
And this time, they will have nuclear weapons.
Yes, that's as on-topic as it gets.
Health,
al-Aswad.
Edited cause I deleted a word by accident, and had a spurious "the".
< Message edited by Aswad -- 3/19/2012 8:57:01 PM >
_____________________________
"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.
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RE: Conservative christian values now include rape? - 
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