RE: Stand your ground

RE: Stand your ground (Full Version)

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Edwynn -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 12:50:39 PM)
Indeed. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/P-00091-Concealed%20Weapons-0911.pdf There are several disqualifying conditions that will result in the ineligibility of the applicant and the denial of the application. Possible reasons for denial include the following: • Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force. After that, there are other indications elsewhere in the form that a three year time lapse from last incident may restore qualification, not sure about this type of injunction in particular. But on the topic of Zimmeman's squeaky cleanliness, this is funny. - (city manager) Bonaparte also addresses a claim made by Martin's father, Tracey Martin: that a law enforcement official told Tracey Martin that Zimmerman wasn't initially arrested because he had a squeaky clean image (in fact, Zimmerman had been charged in connection with assaulting a cop, though the charge was dropped). Bonaparte writes that the official was merely telling the elder Martin how Zimmerman had portrayed himself. "We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information," he adds.- Well that is interesting. As if Tracey Martin (victim's father) would not have been alert to and well aware of such distinction had it been made, he is now graced with the further insult, after the initial lie, of having it explained to the public that he "misconstrued this information." So, how it works in Sanford, then, is that repeating the lie you have been told means that you misconstrued the 'information.' I think we can see here that it's not just the Sanford Police Dept. that needs to be cleaned out, but the whole city government.

Fightdirecto -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 2:09:50 PM)
Sanford, Fla., police chief temporarily steps down quote: The police chief at the center of the fatal neighborhood watch shooting of an unarmed black U.S. teen says he is stepping down temporarily because he has become a distraction. Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee made the announcement at a news conference Thursday. Lee has been criticized after police did not arrest George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the teen to death on Feb. 26. The police chief has said authorities were prohibited from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time of the shooting.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 2:11:05 PM)
I think it would be an excellent idea. They should take Kansas with them, while they are at it. I don't even want to be a citizen of the same country as these people. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Do you ever get the idea that secession can be a good thing ? Does anyone know what the status is of groups that would like to take Texas and Florida out of the Union ? Anyone know where I can donate money to these worthy causes ?

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 4:46:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Nice try, but the only people making any presumptions are the ones screaming murder. K. Well, there's that dead kid lying on the ground. And Zimmerman, with no legal authority, standing over his lifeless body holding a literally smoking gun.. What part ISN'T murder? If Zimmerman has a defense, he can tell it to a jury. Until then, like every other alleged murderer, he can make his case for bail. all hearsay and you are making shit up as you go along. no probable cause it was murder, just hype and drama! DRAMA!!!! quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne If zimmerman was on the ground chances are that there was a fight before the lead started flying and what would someone do if they were losing that fight and the kid who was whomping their ass went for the undrann gun? Well, since Zimmerman is on record as chasing the kid down, Zimmerman would have to make his intention to retreat known, retreat, be prevented from retreating, and suffer great bodily harm, which -- if you don't even need to have an EMT look you over -- wasn't a possibility. Zimmerman cannot meet the statutory requirement for self-defense. So, he's chargeable for manslaughter. Class 2 felony. So, why exactly is the shooter in a felony manslaughter case not being held for arraignment? Everything else is irrelevant. and that record is changing by the second. If there were probable cause he would be in custody and without probable cause LE gets sued LOL quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle lol... Talk about a cop out... MANSLAUGHTER ‑ 782.07 Aggravated assault784.0218.2 Battery 784.038.3 Assault784.0118.1 Culpable negligence784.058.9 DUe process of law may include but is not restricted to statutes. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle AND if Zimmerman REALLY thinks he has a defense, he can explain it to the jury. You know. Like we do in America. he already did to the cops and they released him. Maybe there is something you do not know ya think? quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle How is holding the admitted shooter of an innocent kid for trial on manslaughter charges inconsistent with Due Process, or in any way characterizable as 'lynch mob justice'? all bullshit news paper justice and hearsay, that is absurd. The known evidence did not rise to probable cause. When the evidence does not rise to probable cause you do not get arrested. quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: you just want everyone to join your lynch MOB. By DEFINITION, "Lynch Mobs" do not call for the filing of a felony information and the commencement of criminal procedure against an alleged felon in accordance with all the precepts of Due Process and Florida criminal procedure law. And anyone who is discussing the issue of florida's self-defense law WITHOUT referring to the ACTUAL LAWS, ( and considering the EXEMPTION if you provoke the incident -- which Zimmerman clearly did ), then you're just talking out your ass. on one hand you whine about due process of law and on the other you want the police to act outlaw. make up your mind quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Do you ever get the idea that secession can be a good thing ? Does anyone know what the status is of groups that would like to take Texas and Florida out of the Union ? Anyone know where I can donate money to these worthy causes ? I am taking donations :) LOL

Kirata -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 4:47:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Sanford, Fla., police chief temporarily steps down Interesting. The letter that Zimmerman's father delivered to the Orlando Sentinel stated, "the media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth. The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate." One fake witness has already been exposed. And the link you posted reports that Zimmerman says he had abandoned following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin turned the tables and came after him. People will scream "Liar!" of course, and maybe so. But I don't think we're at the end of this yet. K.

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 4:51:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata "the media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth. The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate." yep ask any cop or official who had the misfortune of being a victim of media misrepresentation to push an agenda. It happens ALL the time as a normal course of business. Time to start suing the fuck out of them when the events can be proven contrary.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 7:48:07 PM)
So now the police chief has stepped down.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 8:12:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto Sanford, Fla., police chief temporarily steps down Interesting. The letter that Zimmerman's father delivered to the Orlando Sentinel stated, "the media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth. The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate." One fake witness has already been exposed. And the link you posted reports that Zimmerman says he had abandoned following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin turned the tables and came after him. People will scream "Liar!" of course, and maybe so. But I don't think we're at the end of this yet. K. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser. The city manager claims that "Sanford city manager says police were barred from arresting Trayvon Martin’s killer" Now isn't that a great thing to know. If I'm ever in Sanford and blow someone away, all I have to do is wait for the police, set the gun on the ground and say "Self Defense" and they are barred from arresting me. (Sarcasm Font OK) As for the story that Zimmerman had abandoned the chase and was jumped. Why have we not heard this before? Have the cops been on the phone with Zimmerman coaching him and now we have a new story?

Edwynn -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 9:19:37 PM)
Exactly. Given all the attention from the start, the 'Zimmerman abandoned chase' story should have come out on day two. But we just now hear it. Don't deny people of their entitled silliness, though. Taking it this far as per this poster: Martin was sneaking around in a back yard. Zimmerman shouted from a great distance; "what are you doing here?", then ran away quickly. Tayvon Martin then ran him down and attacked Zimmerman. I wish the real story and outcome were not so sad. I also wish that some people would just STFU.

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 9:43:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam As for the story that Zimmerman had abandoned the chase and was jumped. Why have we not heard this before? Have the cops been on the phone with Zimmerman coaching him and now we have a new story? careful now! thats getting dangerously close to my turf! Gawd forbid the honest joe gubafia........errrmm I mean "government" would ever be caught red handed in a conspiracy.

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 9:45:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Exactly. Given all the attention from the start, the 'Zimmerman abandoned chase' story should have come out on day two. But we just now hear it. Don't deny people of their entitled silliness, though. Taking it this far as per this poster: Martin was sneaking around in a back yard. Zimmerman shouted from a great distance; "what are you doing here?", then ran away quickly. Tayvon Martin then ran him down and attacked Zimmerman. I wish the real story and outcome were not so sad. I also wish that some people would just STFU. are you privy to that?

erieangel -> RE: Stand your ground (3/22/2012 11:40:36 PM)
It seems the volunteer coordinator for the Sanford Police Dept. who helped set up the neighborhood watch program in that gated community had explicitly told the people (Zimmerman included) at the organizational meeting that they were not chase people down, confront anybody...AND they were not permitted to carry guns. National Sheriffs’ Association, which sponsors the program nationwide, is absolutely clear on one point: guns have no place in a watch group. A manual distributed by the association repeatedly underscores the point: “Patrol members do not carry weapons.” The manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/#.T2wXB9W2YuI

farglebargle -> RE: Stand your ground (3/23/2012 4:28:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Exactly. Given all the attention from the start, the 'Zimmerman abandoned chase' story should have come out on day two. But we just now hear it. Don't deny people of their entitled silliness, though. Taking it this far as per this poster: Martin was sneaking around in a back yard. Zimmerman shouted from a great distance; "what are you doing here?", then ran away quickly. Tayvon Martin then ran him down and attacked Zimmerman. I wish the real story and outcome were not so sad. I also wish that some people would just STFU. are you privy to that? Trayvon Martin is dead. George Zimmerman caused it through act or negligence. Despite clearly being chargeable for Manslaughter under Florida Law, Zimmerman wasn't even held for arraignment. What else do you need to know?

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/24/2012 5:12:45 PM)
there is a huge difference between and act and an act by negligence. For all we know the kid went for his gun and and shot himself in a struggle. quote: What else do you need to know? the facts

farglebargle -> RE: Stand your ground (3/24/2012 5:36:16 PM)
Actually Florida's MANSLAUGHTER law counts whether it's negligence or not. The ONLY two requirements are FACT 1) Trayvon Martin is dead ( which is obvious ) FACT 2) Zimmerman did it. ( which he admits to ) Everything else is for a Judge and Jury to decide and the defense counsel can submit pretrial motions to argue anything he wants...

VideoAdminGamma -> RE: Stand your ground (3/24/2012 7:30:40 PM)
I have pulled some post for violations. I realize this is a very passionate topic to some, but please take a breath and think before you post. Thank you for being a part of CollarMe, VideoAdminGamma

Real0ne -> RE: Stand your ground (3/25/2012 12:02:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Actually Florida's MANSLAUGHTER law counts whether it's negligence or not. The ONLY two requirements are FACT 1) Trayvon Martin is dead ( which is obvious ) FACT 2) Zimmerman did it. ( which he admits to ) Everything else is for a Judge and Jury to decide and the defense counsel can submit pretrial motions to argue anything he wants... yeh take it to court and lose. whats your problem cant wait for the grand jury to examine the facts?

provfivetine -> RE: Stand your ground (3/25/2012 5:47:15 AM)
You can use lethal self-defense when you're being aggressed upon. This law absolutely applies in this instance. http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif]

farglebargle -> RE: Stand your ground (3/25/2012 6:09:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Actually Florida's MANSLAUGHTER law counts whether it's negligence or not. The ONLY two requirements are FACT 1) Trayvon Martin is dead ( which is obvious ) FACT 2) Zimmerman did it. ( which he admits to ) Everything else is for a Judge and Jury to decide and the defense counsel can submit pretrial motions to argue anything he wants... yeh take it to court and lose. whats your problem cant wait for the grand jury to examine the facts? Because STANDARD POLICE AND PROSECUTORIAL STANDARDS DON'T REQUIRE IT. The POLICE have the two facts they need to charge manslaughter. THEIR JOB IS DONE ONCE THEY ARREST THE SUSPECT. And THAT is why the FBI is going to send everyone in the Sanford PD to federal PMITA prison. Where, as cops, they're sure to get a warm welcome. Just ask a cop what you do when you have a dead kid on the ground and a guy standing over him holding a smoking gun admitting to the shooting, and you'll see how far off the rails SPD is.

farglebargle -> RE: Stand your ground (3/25/2012 6:11:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: provfivetine You can use lethal self-defense when you're being aggressed upon. This law absolutely applies in this instance. http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012 [sm=beatdeadhorse.gif] Stop posting links to news articles, and start posting links to the law. That claim has already been debunked by TWO 9-1-1 callers saying that Zimmerman was standing over Martin's dead body IN THEIR BACKYARD. Since Zimmerman is the ARMED GUY CHASING AFTER THE LITTLE KID, than it's clear that Zimmerman was the attacker, and ANY FORCE MARTIN USED AGAINST THE ARMED GUY CHASING HIM is totally lawful. As per Zimmerman's exception to 776 under 776.043 and Martin's coverage under 776.013. Just ask yourself, "IF I WAS BEING CHASED AT NIGHT BY AN ARMED ASSAILANT TWICE MY SIZE, HOW CLOSE WOULD I LET THEM GET BEFORE I FELT THREATENED?"

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