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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 7:52:25 PM   
Iamsemisweet


Posts: 3651
Joined: 4/9/2011
From: The Great Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Jesus, edwynn, that was an asshat comment. Excuse my social skills. I don't see my successful, confident, creative, intelligent sons as damaged by the public school system. Public schools are uneven, some are good, some suck. That's because of the way they are funded. It isn't that education is damaging, it's that the funding is discriminatory.

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The Cat: Oh, you can't help that. We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Alice: How do you know I'm mad?
The Cat: You must be. Or you wouldn't have come here.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:14:32 PM   
xssve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

These christian patriarchy homeschoolers are truly clueless.

Their "plan" is to relegate women to home making and raising hordes of children and they want to curtail their education to make sure these women cannot choose to leave. Now consider who will be home schooling the later generations of this movement? Poorly educated women. Do they really think they can somehow dominate the rest of society with that?

A random kinky thought: If I were a male Dominant really into the "1950's household" kink (which I am not - I like a female submissive that can actually think), looking for a female submissive, it seems my best opportunity/area of search would be to find a Quiverfull family with daughters and talk the father into giving me one of his daughters. Sounds like the daughters would already be "trained".

Maybe, if you were looking for a breeder, not conversation - those people are well and truly brainwashed for the most part.

Your average Southern chick is a better bet, if they aren't holy rollers, they keep it real.

For 50's household, it's more popular among younger, Northern chicks, more of a geek style thing, but the chicks are definitely hot.

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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:16:36 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


but I would point out that ~ 90% of the posters to this thread lack such essentials as basic comprehension, fundamental logic, how to put two triangles to make a square, inability to grasp the simplest point being made


At risk of sounding bellocose, wanna name some fucking names? I'm a poster here AND and ex teacher.

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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:22:24 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


~FR~

Now that everyone has greatly entertained themselves with the anti-home schooling wank party, you are welcome to tell us what a wonderful job conventional education is doing in the US.

I spent 12 years in public school in suburban Atlanta. The schools were integrated and not terribly well funded. I got a suberb education which had nothing to do with my parents, both drunks who paid me very little attention and when they did notice me it was generally to abuse me, and all to do with many different dedicated hard working teachers.

In the end I was accepted to every single university I applied to and only didn't go to my dream school due to my not being able to afford it, see above useless parents. So I spent 6 years in the USN and then went to the University of Chicago where I did very well, graduating Cum Laude.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:25:10 PM   
Edwynn


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Then I trust you to do the math and consider that I was responding to the majority of posters in this thread, not the 10%.

Up to you as to which you belong. I have my spirits up.



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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:28:16 PM   
Aynne88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That article describes very well my own experiences with kids that have been home schooled.

I've only encountered one family who's children got a better education and who's parents home schooled for that very purpose.

All of the others did it for religious reasons and the children are nearly incapable of leaving the nest and coping with the realities of the world. Not in any sort of successful manner. They, especially the girls, are literally stuck within that closed society, with very little concept of how the rest of the community around them lives.



Haven't even read the thread beyond this but 100 percent yes!

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(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:34:32 PM   
Kaliko


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Status: offline 		FR

I've seen a large number of home school programs over a fairly long period of time. It is just as some say here. There are some wonderful programs in place, and there are some that are, unfortunately, in place so those older kids could serve as sitters, etc., while parents aren't home. There are some great parent-teachers, and there are some that need much assistance and you have to truly wonder about the poor child and what he or she is really losing out on.

However...

I have these same misgivings in situations outside of home schooling too, just for other reasons.

I hesitate to say more regulation of home schooling is required because then it starts to lose its existence as "home" schooling.

There are so many ways children can be at worst, damaged, or at best, inadequately prepared for what they face upon graduation. Being confined to religious teaching is maybe (maybe) one way. Some consider my raising my daughter vegetarian to be borderline abusive. What about children who are obese and don't receive enough exercise? Or how about children who are allowed to watch 8 hours a day of TV and are never made to read a book? Or children who have to spend their weekend doing chores instead of going out with friends? Or children who don't take vitamins? Or children who have never participated in a team sport? Or children who have never attended a dance? Will we regulate all of this?

Just because we are so used to doing something a certain way certainly doesn't mean it's the right and only way. Children can be socialized just fine without a school building to attend. I would bet large bucks that someday in the future, school buildings will no longer exist as we know it. Schools today are already beginning to use virtual learning when school is cancelled due to inclement weather. Alternative Learning Plans are also including some home-based and outside-of-school instruction. Attendance at a school building is not the end all be all and will not make or break a child's success in education or in life.

I can say without hesitancy that if I had it to do over again, I would home school in heartbeat.


ETA - just reworded a bit to make me more generic. :)


< Message edited by Kaliko -- 3/22/2012 8:39:41 PM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 8:40:58 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		There are some bad influences in public schools, I think the hardest part of parenting is just keeping your kids hitting the books instead of the streets.

But influence works both ways, and I'm not impressed with the religious home schoolers, most of 'em just seem old before their time - not wise old, annoying old.

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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/22/2012 9:09:57 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


but I would point out that ~ 90% of the posters to this thread lack such essentials as basic comprehension, fundamental logic, how to put two triangles to make a square, inability to grasp the simplest point being made


At risk of sounding bellocose, wanna name some fucking names? I'm a poster here AND and ex teacher.



Just more unresearched trougher bullshit

How about that x teach?




Occasional Paper No. 88

National Center for the Study of Privatization in Education

Teachers College, Columbia University

Home-Schooling in the US

January 2004
Clive R. Belfield
[email protected]
National Center for the Study of Privatization in Education
Teachers College, Columbia University
525 W120th Street, New York NY 10027-6696
www.ncspe.org








~teachers pet


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/22/2012 9:15:04 PM >

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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 4:19:16 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Which would be an awesome measure if ALL home schooled kids took those tests. They don't. In fact I don't know of one situation where the kids did.

And since all kids are not taking the test, using the test as a measure of success of ALL is worthless.

As for the Amish brewhaha.......all I know is that a few years ago, less than 10, the Amish had their 100% cotton undies wadded because they fought the fight and lost. All kids in the state must attend to a certain age, I think it was 16 but I may be wrong. The government website crashes every time I try to look. If something changed after that ruling, I am unaware.

Besides, the Amish are not home schooled here. They have their own schools. They can cite religious reasons for wanting their kids out of school early all they want but the bottom line.......those kids are free slave labour, pure and simple.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/23/2012 4:43:12 AM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 5:49:29 AM   
Edwynn


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As are most farm kids.

Are the Amish farmers worse to their slave kids than non-Amish farmers are to theirs?



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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 6:46:50 AM   
FelineFae


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Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline 		Humans have this wonderful ability to adapt to their world. They don't always use it, but they do have it.

While I feel that the Quiverfull practice of education is as harmful as Unschooling, that is my view. I do believe the parents of these children are placing future hurdles for the children to rise above. I also dislike the negative image this brings to responcible homebased education.

Being born into a bad situation isn't that uncommon. No matter what advantages or disadvantages the parents may bring to the table, it's going to be up to the character of the child to make something of themself. My overall faith in humanity dwindles steadily, yet I maintain some hope for the few shiny ones out there.

Some children will reach their full potential, no matter how where their life began. Many will not, so they will not be lonely in the end.

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 3/23/2012 6:47:54 AM >

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(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 7:31:25 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


As are most farm kids.

Are the Amish farmers worse to their slave kids than non-Amish farmers are to theirs?





My personal experience is......yes and no. Non Amish do not have BEING Amish to hide behind. But certain abuse of children is everywhere. It's just that a kid that goes to public school and is not living within the protection of such a sect may have the benefit of knowing the abuse is wrong or having someone outside the family help. They are also expected to finish school. Within the Amish sects I have been exposed to, there is much that is 'accepted' like child labour beyond what should be acceptable, capitol punishment, and lack of education.

However, a discussion about Amish ways is off topic to this thread as those children are not home schooled. They have schools.

I even knew a family in the 80's, that home schooled their kids. I found out quite a few years after the fact, that the reason the father was so adamant about their kids being home schooled was not religious reasons as hinted occasionally, and not because he wanted a better education than the public schools at the time could offer (they were actually very good in that town, at that time) but because he wanted to isolate them and protect himself. He wanted to be sure their exposure outside the house was controlled by him. He didn't want them spilling any details of what he was doing to them.

The daughter that told me about it years after the fact, thanked me for allowing her to spend time at our house. It was a respite from the abuse of her father, a safe place. Something I was completely clueless about at the time.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/23/2012 7:36:00 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 8:43:23 AM   
Edwynn


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The point was that it is not unusual for farm kids to work in that environment. Referring to it as slave labor was a bit melodramatic.

The horror story related above is another example of several in the thread as attempt to demonize any and all home schooling. Are public schools without incident of child abuse or inappropriate behavior towards children? I mean, they wouldn't do anything like have a five year old girl arrested and hand cuffed and ankle cuffed by police and sitting in the back of a patrol car, would they? 

Well, it looks as though public school is not the safest place for a child in every instance.

If I come up with one or two more horror stories occurring in public schools (not difficult) , can I use that to condemn all of public schooling like people are doing to condemn all homeschooling in this thread?





(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 8:54:14 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I have seen some excellent students come from home-schooling.

Schools vary. So do homes.

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 8:56:16 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The point was that it is not unusual for farm kids to work in that environment. Referring to it as slave labor was a bit melodramatic.

The horror story related above is another example of several in the thread as attempt to demonize any and all home schooling. Are public schools without incident of child abuse or inappropriate behavior towards children? I mean, they wouldn't do anything like have a five year old girl arrested and hand cuffed and ankle cuffed by police and sitting in the back of a patrol car, would they? 

Well, it looks as though public school is not the safest place for a child in every instance.

If I come up with one or two more horror stories occurring in public schools (not difficult) , can I use that to condemn all of public schooling like people are doing to condemn all homeschooling in this thread?

I've read every post in this thread and have not read a single one that condemns all homeschooling. Could you present a link or quote or retract the false claim?

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 9:10:27 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


The point was that it is not unusual for farm kids to work in that environment. Referring to it as slave labor was a bit melodramatic.



The ONLY people I see being melodramatic are the people like you, taking posts like mine, and generalizing them, blowing them out of proportion, and making something they OBVIOUSLY, to an intelligent, thinking, mind........are not.

I think home schooling is a fantastic thing.........IF and WHEN it is done by dedicated, skilled people and done well. Especially for extremely bright kids that happen to live in an area where the schools are complete shit. I've seen ONE family that was doing it fabulously. The things that made it great for them, the kids where being taught by an actual teacher who was committed to her kids education. They had a dedicated place in the house for school. They had a school routine and structure. The kids also participated in a lot of activities involving other kids, like sports and other kid centric, social, community positive, groups. It was not done to isolate the kids but to give them a better education than was available in their local public schools. They also made use of resources like Kahn Academy to educate the kids in areas where the teacher felt she was weak.

This thread was NOT about those cases. It was about the remainder that suck and are doing the kids a vast disservice.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 9:21:08 AM   
Fightdirecto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I've read every post in this thread and have not read a single one that condemns all homeschooling.


My experience has been that, when you try to discuss some inadequancies of some home-schooling, you are more likely to get posts from home-schooling supporters condemning all public schooling.


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(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 10:02:11 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I have seen some excellent students come from home-schooling.

Schools vary. So do homes.



Indeed they do. I never understood bullying until I was ~ 10-12 and had ingratiated myself with one or two of the 'tough guys' that themselves had chosen not to be bullies, and then one other who used to pick on me but then for whatever reason decided to befriend me. The situation at home was not good for these kids. However tough they were at school, they were somewhat less so outside of it, but the few times I was at their house, I've never seen such scared puppies in my life. To put it plainly, they had reason for fear, and it was what they lived with every day.

But to the topic; a woman I befriended who worked at a natural food store home schooled (along with her husband) her 3 kids. They were wonderful kids in every way, but as you allude to, the parents just being who they were probably had more to do with that than the home schooling itself. They were raised in a vegetarian family, but the parents being good at exposing their kids to the 'real world' (only when they were ready for whatever particular item from that, which is the argument of some home schoolers), they of course had the experience of eating meat a few times.

They were in the girl scouts and boy scouts, played league soccer, and otherwise found their way into a multitude of socializing situations. The local community college, and, if I recall, all of the state universities prohibited kids from attending until age 18 if they had ever attended a public school. These kids did not have that limitation and so started at Central Piedmont CC (Charlotte) at age 16, all of them then advancing to a senior college.

The younger two I talked with a good bit, the oldest away at NC School of the Arts at the time. I have a 'different,' somewhat outre manner of thought process and of speaking, when I allow the latter to be expressed, some way of inserting a subtle and minor joke into the 'arc' of a sentence in normal spoken word. I'm only half aware of it usually, and it flies over the conversation in most cases. The youngest of these kids always 'caught' me and she would chuckle. Mom; "what are you laughing at?", girl; "what he said.", mom; "what?", girl; "it was funny."

In any case, I am as concerned as anyone else about some of these home schooling situations. I certainly do not mean to dismiss legitimate concerns of others. As you imply, the problem in many of these instances of less than efficacious endeavors has more to do with the parents than with the home schooling itself. No different than any other school situation in that regard.






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RE: Home-schooled and illiterate - 3/23/2012 11:01:47 AM   
LoreBook


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Status: offline 		Were you home schooled or did you go to public schools Edwynn?

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(in reply to Edwynn)
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