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RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/9/2012 4:10:04 PM

ChatteParfaitt

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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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I stand corrected, the OP was not "very specifically speaking of dominants trying to get to know her."

I made an assumption. A correct one, I believe, as the OP is looking and per her profile and some of her postings here, appears to be quite frustrated in her search. Understandably to my mind.

Killerangel, however, was most definitely speaking of dominants attempting to gt to know her, and it was my reply to her that you took exception to.

I agree, there is a huge communication disconnect on this topic. But let me take you back to the OP's second post:

Not claiming to be perfect by any means, and yes, there are certainly times when I need to be reminded.

Was really thinking more of when it is a central focus or activity within the dynamic. For example, "you will always be naked, shackled and looking at the floor so you always know your place. "

And admittedly I would probably respond differently if they simply said it pleases me to see you in that state, so that is how it will be.

For me, a large part of the appeal of D/s is the more clearly defined roles and expectations. It allows for less conflict in my relationships. I have spent a significant amount of time in my life actively seeking such relationships. Just fail to see a need to fight it when I find it.

I took that to mean, don't *tell* me all the time about putting in my place, or knowing my place, just show me.

And I'm a just show me girl, my own self.

BTW, you siad:

I'm well aware of the predominantly male "dominants" who troll these sites in search of women, preferably of the naive newbie variety....

Regrettably, its not just men who troll MC and Fet, I've encountered this rigid approach in real time as well. And I think this is what turns *me* off the most, that the approach is very rigid, one sided, appears to be scripted, and allows little room for actually getting to know a person.

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Post #: 61

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/9/2012 4:58:17 PM

JeffBC

Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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quote:

Was really thinking more of when it is a central focus or activity within the dynamic. For example, "you will always be naked, shackled and looking at the floor so you always know your place. "

Wow, now THAT is interesting. So that also is "place putting". I'll certainly admit to doing things like that back before Carol internalized her new identity as an owned woman. Maybe not quite with that degree of ... well.. flair. But I definitely had her doing things which were "slavey" in order to help her internalize the role. Now that I think back, none of that worked though. Nor did mantras or any of the other gimmicks I tried.

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I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 62

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/9/2012 5:25:02 PM

LPslittleclip

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Joined: 9/29/2007
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i said up front i was not worthy of the standards of a slave and i would make mistakes as i am only human i do need a yank of the leash once in a while not to put me in my place but just to remind me and keep me centered. i have learned that i crave touch and lond distance is extremly hard and i needed more reinforcement than when i was in person. in person just a glance or a touch would do most of the time but if i was completly out of wack or for too long i would need the physical takedown and restraint to get me back i did not effective communicate my need or it was not recived as intended and that is where the communication breaks down what i ment to say is not what i said what you heard is not what i said and what you understood wan not what i wanted. some times the actions are not understood till after it is done and then it may be too late. communication is more than just a message it is how is it intended and how is it recived and how it is implemented i would have done anything to have had a yank once and a while recently any kind of reinforcement at all but i failled to adequatly communicate my need in a way that was understood

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Post #: 63

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/9/2012 10:27:52 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

I made an assumption. A correct one, I believe, as the OP is looking and per her profile and some of her postings here, appears to be quite frustrated in her search. Understandably to my mind.

Killerangel, however, was most definitely speaking of dominants attempting to gt to know her, and it was my reply to her that you took exception to.

Yes, Killerangel definitely was - in response to an OP very much open to interpretation. To my mind, your endorsement of Killerangel's post affectively applied a compromised and condensed meaning to the greater, general topic. A derailment.... And yeah, I absolutely took exception to that end result (Killerangel's fantasy/porn reasonings - endorsed by you).

quote:

I agree, there is a huge communication disconnect on this topic. But let me take you back to the OP's second post:

Not claiming to be perfect by any means, and yes, there are certainly times when I need to be reminded.

Was really thinking more of when it is a central focus or activity within the dynamic. For example, "you will always be naked, shackled and looking at the floor so you always know your place. "

And admittedly I would probably respond differently if they simply said it pleases me to see you in that state, so that is how it will be.

For me, a large part of the appeal of D/s is the more clearly defined roles and expectations. It allows for less conflict in my relationships. I have spent a significant amount of time in my life actively seeking such relationships. Just fail to see a need to fight it when I find it.

I took that to mean, don't *tell* me all the time about putting in my place, or knowing my place, just show me.

And I'm a just show me girl, my own self.

Well I took that to mean she's talking about her personal relationship experiences - albeit with poor communication channels. Regarding you (and the OP?) being a "show me girl", most adults appreciate actions speak louder than words. But I would also disagree that, in my *personal relationships*, I'll expect all 3 to be in play - she know her place along with times when I remind her verbally and physically. And a fourth; that I often communicate (re our respective D/s places) with "the stare"....

quote:

BTW, you siad:

I'm well aware of the predominantly male "dominants" who troll these sites in search of women, preferably of the naive newbie variety....

Regrettably, its not just men who troll MC and Fet, I've encountered this rigid approach in real time as well. And I think this is what turns *me* off the most, that the approach is very rigid, one sided, appears to be scripted, and allows little room for actually getting to know a person.

Dunno what "MC and Fet" is but I'll take your word that women(?) troll, too. And real life, as well.... Oddly, despite the movie star looks and alround winning personality, I've spent my entire life being a troll-free zone. <shrugs>

Oh, wait - does African scam mail count?

Focus.

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Post #: 64

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 4:46:59 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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I don't know a sub, male or female, who does not *love* the stern voice and the stare. I have quite the glare myself (I'm known for it).

My man does the best "what the fuck is wrong with you?" look. One reason I love it so much is that it's not put on for effect, he's actually communicating a major WTF? That stops me in my tracks, I can assure you.

Same with the stern voice, he doesn't use it often (he's a soft spoken man), but when he does, I pay attention. he has no need to tell me to know my place, if I couldn't or wouldn't pick up on the look and the stern voice, frankly he would not be interested in me as a submissive. He's just not interested in someone he has to force to obey. He prefers to inspire, and that's what I respond to.

In an earlier post you asked me this:

Are you an advocate for passive/neutered "dominance" or just for all relationships to be founded on the egalitarian vanilla (theory)?

There is a huge difference between quiet dominance and "passive or neutered dominance," which is not really dominance at all. Though it may appear to others that I have few controls on me, I think that depends on POV. We don't have many rituals or protocol, this is not the basis for our relationship. What we do is more: "You are here to make me happy." Since virtually all my controls center around what *I* need to do for *him,* in other words, it's not a rigidly scripted set of rules, it's rules he's laid down as things progressed not to "put me in my place" but to help me fulfill my place more satisfactorily.

Just this weekend I was told: "I don't like it when you have your headset on and I don't know it." He doesn't care if I want to listen to music on my own, he just doesn't like me to be unresponsive if he should need something.

Now, I understand you have some well formed ideas about how you want your girl to dress and behave, etc. I don't consider that overly rigid, unless you want your girl in heels all the time, and for medical reasons she can't wear them.

This goes back to the original OP and her rant about "you will be in chains all the time." Well, most people have jobs and chores and a real life to conduct, and *can't* be in chains all the time. Nice fantasy, but real D/s relationships that go beyond the bedroom are, in my mind, more reality based than fantasy based. If that makes sense.

(BTW: MC was a typo for CM.)

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Post #: 65

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 6:15:27 AM

Focus50

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From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

In an earlier post you asked me this:

Are you an advocate for passive/neutered "dominance" or just for all relationships to be founded on the egalitarian vanilla (theory)?

There is a huge difference between quiet dominance and "passive or neutered dominance," which is not really dominance at all.

I agree. Quiet dominance is a matter of personal style. I'm probably mid way between quiet and overt strutter.... lol The passive dominance I've often referred to on these boards is where the "dominant" doesn't actually dominate at all, merely kicks back and accepts the fruits of the submissive's submission.

quote:

Though it may appear to others that I have few controls on me, I think that depends on POV.

For better or worse, I'm the observant type particularly attuned to repetitive patterns of behaviour. When challenged, you have an "in your face" style of posting which, *to me*, fits with you identifying as switch.

Now if you look past my shameless prejudices and ability to generalise, it's been my experience in over a decade of posting online (here, bon.com and the old bdsm-online) that the uberest, most dominant of posters are usually switches. No offense to you personally (still generalising...) but it's like they have to go that extra yard to prove themselves. Online, that is; I have a very different opinion from the switches I've known real life.

So for the right or wrong reasons, I've never been especially surprised that you can be a bit prickly with your posts. My "poking the bear" reference to one of your earlier statements just came to mind.... lol

quote:

Just this weekend I was told: "I don't like it when you have your headset on and I don't know it." He doesn't care if I want to listen to music on my own, he just doesn't like me to be unresponsive if he should need something.

Lol, I can relate. I don't appreciate anyone being so rude as to engage me in conversation while they're wearing sun glasses. So you can figger where the girl fits with that scenario. She's allowed if we're driving somewhere, as that kind of conversation is not safe eyeball to eyeball. But that's it...!

quote:

Now, I understand you have some well formed ideas about how you want your girl to dress and behave, etc. I don't consider that overly rigid, unless you want your girl in heels all the time, and for medical reasons she can't wear them.

This goes back to the original OP and her rant about "you will be in chains all the time." Well, most people have jobs and chores and a real life to conduct, and *can't* be in chains all the time. Nice fantasy, but real D/s relationships that go beyond the bedroom are, in my mind, more reality based than fantasy based. If that makes sense.

(BTW: MC was a typo for CM.)

Apparently it's normal for us Virgo types to be practical. So yeah, heels are hot (on women) but at the right time and place. She looks all cute & girly in her pink joggers when we go for a walk, too. But good and bad, too much of anything is a recipe for tedium. Lol, chains all day....

Personally, I suspect my idea of a practical/working/happy D/s (or M/s) relationship is probably very similar to yours. Quite vanilla in the everyday priorities and practicalities with the D/s accessible as the need and desire arises or allows. I'd call that "normal"...

Focus.

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Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

Post #: 66

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 8:07:48 AM

ChatteParfaitt

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

For better or worse, I'm the observant type particularly attuned to repetitive patterns of behaviour. When challenged, you have an "in your face" style of posting which, *to me*, fits with you identifying as switch.

Now if you look past my shameless prejudices and ability to generalise, it's been my experience in over a decade of posting online (here, bon.com and the old bdsm-online) that the uberest, most dominant of posters are usually switches. No offense to you personally (still generalising...) but it's like they have to go that extra yard to prove themselves. Online, that is; I have a very different opinion from the switches I've known real life.

So for the right or wrong reasons, I've never been especially surprised that you can be a bit prickly with your posts. My "poking the bear" reference to one of your earlier statements just came to mind.... lol

<Just laughs> I tend to be surprised when people think I come across as uber dominant, whatever the context. (If you think I am forthright online, you should see me in person.) Nor do I think I am prickly, as you say.

But then, who always has a good idea of how they come across? Especially in a text only format, such as this one, with no non-verbal cues to rely on?

I will admit to being a forthright, independent person who is not the least afraid of confrontation. That doesn't make me someone who foments confrontation, b/c I don't. I *do* like to stir the pot sometimes, but I (almost) always have a reason, in terms of attempting to make people *think* about their responses.

But then, I first ran away from home when I was 2 years old, b/c my mother broke my pull toy and ticked me off. So I *do* have a long history of independent thought and action. LOL

quote:

.

Personally, I suspect my idea of a practical/working/happy D/s (or M/s) relationship is probably very similar to yours. Quite vanilla in the everyday priorities and practicalities with the D/s accessible as the need and desire arises or allows. I'd call that "normal"...

Focus.

Me too. And yes I agree, I suspect how we actually execute our ideas and ideals of power exchange are quite similar.

For the man and I, I've agree to make him happy, he's agreed to be someone I want to make happy; I've agreed to let him make final decisions, he's agreed to be a responsive and responsible leader in the relationship. For us, that's the backbone of what we do.

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Post #: 67

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 10:32:26 AM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
The passive dominance I've often referred to on these boards is where the "dominant" doesn't actually dominate at all, merely kicks back and accepts the fruits of the submissive's submission.

like... say... me.... and no, I'm not kidding. But that'd pretty reasonably description of Carol and I. Well OK, I'm hardly "kicking back". I have a job to do and I'm doing it. But it's also certainly true that I'm not exactly wresting her submission from her and she is really bad at the "futilely beat her hands against my chest" thing.

That being said, I'm hardly an advocate for it. It's what works for Carol and I. Rarely have I actually done anything with her that was what I'd call "dominating" -- the direct, immediate, and forceful imposition of my will on hers whether or not she wanted me to. I know what it is to do that and it's nothing I'd want to do with the woman I love.. at least not without damned good reason.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 68

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 3:55:14 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
The passive dominance I've often referred to on these boards is where the "dominant" doesn't actually dominate at all, merely kicks back and accepts the fruits of the submissive's submission.

like... say... me.... and no, I'm not kidding. But that'd pretty reasonably description of Carol and I. Well OK, I'm hardly "kicking back". I have a job to do and I'm doing it. But it's also certainly true that I'm not exactly wresting her submission from her and she is really bad at the "futilely beat her hands against my chest" thing.

That being said, I'm hardly an advocate for it. It's what works for Carol and I. Rarely have I actually done anything with her that was what I'd call "dominating" -- the direct, immediate, and forceful imposition of my will on hers whether or not she wanted me to. I know what it is to do that and it's nothing I'd want to do with the woman I love.. at least not without damned good reason.

When I've made mention of passive "dominance", it's been in a context of an inherently unhappy sub stuck in a relationship where she has almost total responsibility for any D/s activity. That if she complains (about the lack of complementing dominant energy), then she's not being submissive etc. So it's all her fault that the only real domination is the "dom" guilting her with her own needs - while still being expected to cater to his, to prove her submission....

If you and Carol are *both* happy with your dynamic, then that's all that really matters. Me, I like being served - but I also enjoy pushing/forcing her regardless of whether she'd have done it willingly, anyway. That the means is as important as the end result....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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Post #: 69

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/10/2012 4:05:06 PM

JeffBC

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Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
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Ahhhh, I had misunderstood totally. Nope, that's not Carol and I. We're in this together... some days she's pulling the sled and other days me but it's a team effort. Yes, we don't have any of the "make her" concepts going on. But we are both definitely involved in the effort to move forward.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 70

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 6:27:51 AM

retlaw

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your place is at YOUR MASTER S feet COLLARED and NAKED for YOUR MASTER S pleasures

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Post #: 71

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 10:16:53 AM

JanahX

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I think because the people that have the great need to show people their place are actually looking for people that clueless. There are FUCKING TONS of them. They literally dont know who the hell they are or WHERE they are. So someone at least who knows where they are ---can take the GIANT step and lend someone their great and deep knowledge of showing them where they are on the planet. Google earth is a great tool for this.

Not having that need, - I just write them off as wankers -

quote:

ORIGINAL: artemiss

Ok, I'll admit this is half rant, because the saying just grates on me.

But on the other hand, it is so prevalent around here that it has to be important to many.

So can some of yor please enlighten be on this need to "show a submissive their place?

I know who I am and what I want, I don't need arbitrary reminders. How many out there truly feel they constantly need to be reminded of their place, and why?

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Post #: 72

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 2:45:43 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: retlaw

your place is at YOUR MASTER S feet COLLARED and NAKED for YOUR MASTER S pleasures

Whoa, you don't look like any Spring chicken yet, in 5yrs at CM, your first post comes right out of the book of Dominant Cliche's 101.

Welcome to the Boards. I guess....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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Post #: 73

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 3:05:17 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX

I think because the people that have the great need to show people their place are actually looking for people that clueless. There are FUCKING TONS of them. They literally dont know who the hell they are or WHERE they are. So someone at least who knows where they are ---can take the GIANT step and lend someone their great and deep knowledge of showing them where they are on the planet. Google earth is a great tool for this.

Not having that need, - I just write them off as wankers -

Kaaaaay, speaking of rants (and some topic deja vu), are you speaking of those inclined to introduce themself with a "kneel bitch" attitude to a stranger or are you including those already sharing a relationship with an *unequal* D/s control dynamic, too?

Because I think we've already established (as best we can without further input from artemiss) that the OP wasn't clear either way. It seemed to me from her second post in particular, that she was talking of personal relationship experience whereas others believe she just meant the geeks and wannabes trolling for naive new meat. BIG difference between the two....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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Post #: 74

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 3:24:02 PM

LunaM

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Joined: 3/3/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: retlaw

your place is at YOUR MASTER S feet COLLARED and NAKED for YOUR MASTER S pleasures

*gives a very unlady-like snort*

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Post #: 75

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 3:28:06 PM

JanahX

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I was referring to the endless wankers that approach with the kneel slave attitude - Ive had six of them alone today.

As for whatever goes on behind closed doors between adults = what the fuck ever. I really dont give a shit. Is it some kind of GAME? Some kind of rollplay? Because honestly - I cant imagine someone trying to put me in MY PLACE in my own home - unless I was some kind of mental deficient. Let alone if Im disrespecting someone to where they actually have the ego to say that seriously - I dont even think I could get past the laughter part.

The way I view it, is that Im a grown adult - The reason Im a grown adult is that Ive had enough luck and common sense to stay alive. I myself dont need anyone to REMIND ME OF MY PLACE - Im not that stupid. I sometimes have to remind my younger niece of her place = but thats because shes only six.

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The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

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Post #: 76

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 3:47:49 PM

BurntKitty

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From: Here To Eternity.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Hell YA! I have been known to remind my bitch that i'm da boss man. Whether it's a "look" or a slap across her face. Hell I've even been known to emphasize a point with a slap. Depends on the situation.

BadOne

Damn, I consider that foreplay. ~swoons~

quote:

ORIGINAL: retlaw

your place is at YOUR MASTER S feet COLLARED and NAKED for YOUR MASTER S pleasures

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Post #: 77

RE: Remind me of my place? - 4/12/2012 5:28:21 PM

artemiss

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Joined: 10/23/2007
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Because I didn't like the direction some of the posts had taken, I was being quiet. But yes, for clarity, I was speaking as single woman on this site. Perhaps because of my lack of tolerance for oppression, I have yet to, nor see myself ever, being involved with someone who entered a relationship with that type of attitude.

(in reply to BurntKitty)

Post #: 78

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