RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (Full Version)

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SoftBonds -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 12:07:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You simply don't get it. How much manpower is used complying with government regulations?


That has nothing to do with the money grabbing power of HMO's.

Have you ever worked in a hospital?

If yes, employed at doing what?

Because you sure seem rather.. unknowing... about the industry you claim to be trained in.


Want to address DS's statement, but your questions are so useful to my response I'm quoting you Tazzy.
I have worked in a hospital, as a billing clerk, and then helping format the budget (in a giant ugly excel spreadsheet of doom).
And I can tell both you and DS that I spent a HELL of a lot more time worrying about the various HMO's and private insurance companies than government regulations. Medicare is annoying, but periodically, rather than continually, and they are such a big chunk of the business that learning their forms is easy. Also, they are a lot more forgiving of typos, as long as you don't screw up birthdate or price.
Then I got to see how many billing clerks we were paying for... and how much of our budget that was. Oh, and BTW, this was in a non-profit hospital which did a lot of work for Indians which was paid for by the BIA instead of insurance, so we didn't bill over half our patients... Can't imagine what a for-profit hospital looks like.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:07:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

So....no. Got it.

You are right, the answer is no. Do your own fucking work. Unless of course you like looking like a damn fool.


I know I'm right. Do my own fucking work? How about you support your allegations?

Didn't think so.



tazzygirl -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:22:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

So....no. Got it.

You are right, the answer is no. Do your own fucking work. Unless of course you like looking like a damn fool.


I know I'm right. Do my own fucking work? How about you support your allegations?

Didn't think so.


rofl

I have supported my allegations.. over and over and over again.

Its time you did your homework little boy.



Marc2b -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:23:55 AM)

quote:

I asked for proof of people saying they wanted free health care. If you cannot offer proof of people in this country, your point is moot.


You asked for proof and when I provided it you moved the goal posts.


quote:

As examples of things working when others say its impossible. Not as to what americans may think based upon what a greek person thinks. Apples and oranges.


Still moving the goal posts.

quote:

The health care law addresses much of that. Clear enough now?


Lots of laws address waste and fraud and yet it still goes on... and what does that have to do with the Constitutionality of the individual mandate?

quote:

That the arguments you are using have been made before, and a successful program was not derailed as a result.


So what? Since I’m not arguing against any one particular health care reform (or the desirability of health care reform in general), what does that have to do with what I am doing (questioning the wisdom and the Constitutionality of the individual mandate)?

quote:

No, you assumed what I meant without asking.


Meant what? I was referring to my opposition to the individual mandate being based upon a distrust of government power, not on the desirability of health care reform. Yet you started off with a bunch of statistics, as if that was somehow relevant to the Constitutionality of the individual mandate. Wanting to fix some problem is not reason enough to violate the Constitution… if it were, the constitution would be meaningless.

quote:

As you did above by saying... And in my case you saw it wrong. ?


No, as I did when you stated that it was not your intention to imply that I was a racist. I am granting you that now, I’m taking you at your word. I’ve conceded the point so I don’t understand why you are getting so upset.

quote:

For myself, I am done having a discussion about this topic with you.


Very well.

Peace and prosperity to you and yours.




tazzygirl -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:24:29 AM)

quote:

And I can tell both you and DS that I spent a HELL of a lot more time worrying about the various HMO's and private insurance companies than government regulations. Medicare is annoying, but periodically, rather than continually, and they are such a big chunk of the business that learning their forms is easy. Also, they are a lot more forgiving of typos, as long as you don't screw up birthdate or price.


Medicare/Medicaid is easy compared to the 100 or so private policies one can see in a large area... and a resort community.. forget it.

Even single payer would cut costs dramatically.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:30:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: erieangel
I have some issues with the PA insurance board (a state-run entity, btw) but it is better than the alternative you, in true Republican form, are espousing.

Excepting that I am not a Republican, so......

You sure as hell sound like one.


I sound similar to Republicans in some ways and Democrats in others. What I am, however, is a fiscal Conservative and politically, very much a Libertarian.

Just because the Republicans are jawing Conservatively doesn't make me a Republican. What's truly sick, is that I believe Democrats are more honest than Republicans. I just don't agree with what the Democrats are saying. I do believe they are being more honest than Republicans, though.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:33:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

I'll pass on the newspapers. Anything I want to read in them, I can get online for less. I'm past reading the comics (surprisingly haven't missed them) and I can always find a tough crossword for Sunday "thinking" time. Anything else you want to wrongly accuse me of?

Dude, you are nuts. You ask what I mean, then dismiss my responses.
I have proven over and over that you know nothing about the health care industry.
More than just me have tried to enlighten you, and all you do is pout and stomp your foot, declaring this "wont work" without having a damn clue what "this is".
Intellectual dishonesty is oozing from ever post you make.
Why dont you man up, put your big boy panties on, and admit you dont have a clue about anything you are talking about. You are convincing no one... and making a laughing stock out of yourself.


I have no idea what your comment has to do with the quote section. They do have a "block" function, right? Use it if you feel it is necessary.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:38:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

Wrong, try again. There is a huge difference between a price cap and a negotiated cost.

Wrong.
quote:

A half-dozen health insurers yesterday filed a lawsuit against the state seeking to reverse last week’s decision by the insurance commissioner to block double-digit premium increases — a ruling they say could leave them with hundreds of millions in losses this year.

http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2010/04/06/health_insurers_sue_to_raise_rates/


I don't see how your comment relates at all. Government is setting a price cap (actually a cap in the % premiums can be raised). Insurance companies are complaining because they are not going to be able to raise revenues enough to cover expected payouts. That may be a "win" in your book as the cap did limit how much higher premiums were going to be, but it still did nothing to the cost of procedures. Had the cap been put on the procedures, the premium increase wouldn't have been as high, or it wouldn't have existed.

But, since you can't see that, I suppose that was simply more of my time wasted.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:40:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Because you sure seem rather.. unknowing... about the industry you claim to be trained in.


Have we entered a discussion regarding modes of rehab?

Oh. Didn't think so. Thus, we have yet to delve into the industry I've been trained in.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:42:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Want to address DS's statement, but your questions are so useful to my response I'm quoting you Tazzy.
I have worked in a hospital, as a billing clerk, and then helping format the budget (in a giant ugly excel spreadsheet of doom).
And I can tell both you and DS that I spent a HELL of a lot more time worrying about the various HMO's and private insurance companies than government regulations.


What about private insurance companies and various HMO's did you worry about?



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 7:45:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
rofl
I have supported my allegations.. over and over and over again.
Its time you did your homework little boy.


You have not supported your claims. When you got questioned, your response was, "read the bill." That is not supporting your allegations.

Towards you last comment, I only have two comments:

1. I'm not a boy.
2. I'm also willing to bet that you are much littler than me.



tazzygirl -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 8:26:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
rofl
I have supported my allegations.. over and over and over again.
Its time you did your homework little boy.


You have not supported your claims. When you got questioned, your response was, "read the bill." That is not supporting your allegations.

Towards you last comment, I only have two comments:

1. I'm not a boy.
2. I'm also willing to bet that you are much littler than me.



Honey, repeatedly I have refuted your misconceptions.. then I realized.. the big strong man needs a woman to teach him about the industry he claims to know so very much about.

Sorry, a male who stomps and pouts, to me, is a little boy.

Grow up and actually do some research before entering a debate on an industry you have repeatedly shown you have very little understanding about.



SoftBonds -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 8:28:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Want to address DS's statement, but your questions are so useful to my response I'm quoting you Tazzy.
I have worked in a hospital, as a billing clerk, and then helping format the budget (in a giant ugly excel spreadsheet of doom).
And I can tell both you and DS that I spent a HELL of a lot more time worrying about the various HMO's and private insurance companies than government regulations.


What about private insurance companies and various HMO's did you worry about?



Perhaps worry was the wrong term, "researching?" "Looking up arcane rules?" Granted, there was a fair amount of worrying, after all, you type in the wrong middle initial and you get back "no such patient," with no clue why you got that reply, given that you have a photocopy of the patient's insurance card in front of you. Of course, back then you got these stupid one-line responses for all problems, so maybe it is better now.
I freely grant that my knowledge of the pain of medical billing is over a decade old (and don't miss it a bit).
OTOH, anyone who wants a job and is detail oriented, it is a great career, once you break in to the industry. A good medical biller can set his/her own salary, and have Doctors fighting over you. You can even go freelance if you like and be "self employed."



erieangel -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 8:46:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

And I can tell both you and DS that I spent a HELL of a lot more time worrying about the various HMO's and private insurance companies than government regulations. Medicare is annoying, but periodically, rather than continually, and they are such a big chunk of the business that learning their forms is easy. Also, they are a lot more forgiving of typos, as long as you don't screw up birthdate or price.


Medicare/Medicaid is easy compared to the 100 or so private policies one can see in a large area... and a resort community.. forget it.

Even single payer would cut costs dramatically.



I can attest strongly to that. In the mental health field alone, prior to 1998, community mental health care was administered through the county health department, which, though they provided oversight, pretty much left the agencies do what they do best--serve people in need. Since private insurance companies have become involved in administering the cost of community mental health care, county and agency budgets have gone down, there is far more emphasis on "billable" time. In essence, if its not on the treatment plan, I can't bill for it. And programs that have proven to be helpful to people in the past have had to be cut because the insurance companies refuse to pay for those programs.

Back when I was in treatment, I was in a program called "stepping into the act". It was an totally unprofessional acting troupe of mental health patients and a few staff members from the agency. We got support from the local live theater in the way of sets and costuming and a local university donated their theater for our annual shows. I gained a lot of self-esteem, learned not to be afraid of crowds, of speaking in front of others and a lot of other things through that acting troupe. But neither of the insurance companies the county has contracted with to administer our community mental health will pay for such a program. They want more "clinical" type stuff shown. I find it odd that the insurance company will pay for me to sit down with a client and "role play" a situation but they won't pay for something that will actually provide them with the experience of doing something well thereby gaining knowledge and self-esteem.




DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 12:24:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoftBonds
Perhaps worry was the wrong term, "researching?" "Looking up arcane rules?" Granted, there was a fair amount of worrying, after all, you type in the wrong middle initial and you get back "no such patient," with no clue why you got that reply, given that you have a photocopy of the patient's insurance card in front of you. Of course, back then you got these stupid one-line responses for all problems, so maybe it is better now.
I freely grant that my knowledge of the pain of medical billing is over a decade old (and don't miss it a bit).
OTOH, anyone who wants a job and is detail oriented, it is a great career, once you break in to the industry. A good medical biller can set his/her own salary, and have Doctors fighting over you. You can even go freelance if you like and be "self employed."


I guess my only response to the "No such Patient" responses have something to do with the sheer volume of the insured. How many John "_" Smith's are there? Punch in the wrong middle initial and you could have 25 different patients (only 25 because you've already used one init.). They don't know why it's wrong, necessarily. They have several John Smith's, but which one received treatment? What if you misspelled the last name ("Smyth")? Now, I'm certain that there were SS#'s, and that should have been adequate to determine, or at least, to cause a information request call to verify the info, but, it was probably more lucrative to pass the buck back to you.

And, thank you for simply answering the question. It was appreciated. I certainly do wish everyone would just answer the questions on here.



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 12:29:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Honey, repeatedly I have refuted your misconceptions.. then I realized.. the big strong man needs a woman to teach him about the industry he claims to know so very much about.
Sorry, a male who stomps and pouts, to me, is a little boy.
Grow up and actually do some research before entering a debate on an industry you have repeatedly shown you have very little understanding about.


I never said I was all that strong, just big.
We have yet to discuss methods of rehab, so the area I know so very much about hasn't come up.
I have yet to stomp and pout.
Go back to my #1 in my last post to you.
And, tazzy, I do recommend that you find a way to simply overlook my posts. I spent double digit # of posts trying to get you to understand that lowering the cost of procedures is my desired way to make health care affordable, that I fully believe (and know) that Congress and the insurance industry are in bed with each other (which is why forcing people onto insurance is a sure way to not fix the problem, but to exacerbate it), and that we actually do have the same end goal, just a vastly different way to get there.

Best of luck to you.



Musicmystery -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 1:28:38 PM)

The two of you need a chat room!

[:D]



tazzygirl -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 1:48:40 PM)

quote:

I never said I was all that strong, just big.
We have yet to discuss methods of rehab, so the area I know so very much about hasn't come up.


I have also worked rehab from time to time. Its really not that much different.

quote:

And, tazzy, I do recommend that you find a way to simply overlook my posts. I spent double digit # of posts trying to get you to understand that lowering the cost of procedures is my desired way to make health care affordable, that I fully believe (and know) that Congress and the insurance industry are in bed with each other (which is why forcing people onto insurance is a sure way to not fix the problem, but to exacerbate it), and that we actually do have the same end goal, just a vastly different way to get there.


And you have yet to lay out a plan on how that should be accomplished. You are whistling dixie and living in a fantasy world.

You have been shown multiple ways to reduce not only direct costs, but indirect costs. Administrative costs, wasteful spending, ect ect ect. Dont blame us because you cant grasp the concepts.




tazzygirl -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/10/2012 1:49:49 PM)

fuck it... so not worth it



DesideriScuri -> RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health Care law? (4/11/2012 6:08:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

I never said I was all that strong, just big.
We have yet to discuss methods of rehab, so the area I know so very much about hasn't come up.

I have also worked rehab from time to time. Its really not that much different.


Really? So, administration of health care facilities (which I've never once claimed any training in) is not "that much different" from providing rehabilitative care? Are you going to tell me that a Hospital Administrator is going to be as capable as a PT/OT/RKT/PTA/OTA/KT at patient assessment and rehabilitative plan creation? You're off your rocker if you think that.

quote:

You have been shown multiple ways to reduce not only direct costs, but indirect costs. Administrative costs, wasteful spending, ect ect ect. Dont blame us because you cant grasp the concepts.


You have yet to show how the cost of individual procedures is going to drop. You have shown how aggregate costs will drop. That is a great thing, but unlikely to actually help an individual to afford health care on his/her own. The only things you are showing, is how to make insurance more affordable. As we've already discussed and agreed upon, Congress and the insurance companies are jacking each other off, making it nearly impossible for individuals to actually afford health care without insurance.

I am of the belief that insurance should be used solely for protection against catastrophic loss, not routine procedures. Protect yourself against financial ruin because of an accident, not pay for every frakkin' thing remotely tied to health care.

That you can't see what I'm trying to do has less to do with me and my arguments and more to do with your ideological blinders.

Best of luck to you, tazzy.



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