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RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 9:17:38 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

The solution toward the health care problem is simple (which does not mean that it is easy, people have a tendency, I've noticed, to also confuse the concepts of simple and easy as well): a tax supported, government run, health care system. I do however, think this is one area where it would be better run by the states rather than the federal government for several reasons.

First, it is questionable that the federal government has the constitutional authority to run such a system.

Second, it would be easier to administer such a system for say, 20 million people, than three hundred million people.

Third, it preserves freedom and choice. If the people of Massachusetts want a state run health care system, they can have one and if the people of Oklahoma don't want one, they don't have to have one.

Fourth, it provides testing grounds for various systems. If Colorado is doing a really shitty job of it, they can look at New York or California and say "hey, look, they seem to be doing it right... we should do what they are doing."

Fifth, it makes changing the system easier. As I mentioned earlier, you'll have a better chance of convincing a majority of twenty million than three hundred million.

Lastly, if, despite your best efforts, you just don't like the way things are going in your State... you have forty-nine others to choose from! surely one of them must be a good fit. If not, oh well, you can't please everyone.



This is what I would love to see as well. But can the government mandate the states to run it? Republicans presented the argument to the Supreme Court that the Medicaid expansion was unconstitutional because it involved the government "coercing the states."


_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 9:37:26 AM   
Musicmystery


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It's a flimsy argument, but this is a politicized court, so the merits are secondary.

Ironically, conservatives used to argue for this "mandate"--before they were taken over by the nutso fringe. After all, we pay anyway, through emergency room visits.

The health care plan itself is largely the Republican one from 1994. But they were never serious about a plan, just an opposition, just as their "reforms" are all repeals...but they have shied away from calling them repeals because much of the plan is popular (despite the rhetorical campaign pretending otherwise).



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 4/3/2012 9:39:33 AM >

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 10:14:25 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

Guess Scalia's broccoli characterization was right on point.


The broccoli bit starts at 3:00

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/411272/march-28-2012/march-28--2012---pt--1

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 11:04:25 AM   
Yachtie


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

cell phones can be viewed today as entitlements.


That's ridiculous. Show me any such entitlement program.


Ok. here's your ridiculous -


An obscure federal program that helps poor people pay for phone service is entering the wireless era. Cell phone companies are offering the needy a bargain that the rest of us can only dream about: free service.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 11:33:12 AM   
Musicmystery


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Did you read this article?

National phone service isn't new. This cell phone company initiative offers 911 service and 68 minutes a month. That's two minutes a day to chat. After that---they can purchase minutes at the usual cost. On a motorola $10 phone.


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 11:39:29 AM   
kalikshama


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My brother, who is disabled, just signed up for SafeLink:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TracFone_Wireless#SafeLink

SafeLink Wireless provides a free cell phone and a limited number of voice minutes each month for low-income-eligible families (one per family) who do not use Lifeline services offered by any other phone or wireless company. It is funded through the Universal Service Fund that almost every US taxpayer contributes to via their existing land-line and wireless service provider, but is only operational in a limited number of states.[4][5] It is similar to the Lifeline and LinkUp government subsidized service for home telephones.[6] Applications for service may be done via their web page, or by having them fax or mail an application form. No choice of phone handset is provided by the application process. Additional minutes over the free monthly benefit may be purchased. As of May 2011, Safelink Wireless had almost 4,000,000 subscribers,[7] the largest Lifeline cell phone provider in the United States.

--------

From your link,

Jose Fuentes, TracFone’s director of government relations wouldn’t say how many people in the state have signed up or how it can make a profit off the $10 per household federal subsidy it receives to provide the Lifeline service.

I imagine TracFone makes money by selling extra minutes.

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Service_Fund

...The Communications Act of 1934 first established the concept of making affordable basic telephone service available to everyone everywhere within a nation, state, or other governmental jurisdiction. This concept led to the formation of a fund known as the Universal Service Fund (USF), which was finally codified in the Telecommunications Act of 1996. In some cases, the concept has been widened to include other telecommunications-information services, mainly Internet access.[12]

Prior to the Telecommunications Act of 1996, the Universal Service Fund (USF) operated as a mechanism by which interstate long distance carriers were assessed to subsidize telephone service to low-income households and high-cost areas in order to ensure that all the people in the United States have access to rapid, efficient, nationwide communications service with sufficient facilities at realistic charges.[13]

The Telecommunications Act of 1996 expanded the traditional definition of universal service - affordable, nationwide telephone service – to include other services, such as rural health care providers and eligible schools and libraries.

The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. Today the FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.[14]

Programs offered

The Universal Service Fund (USF) is one fund with four programs.

The four programs are:

High Cost - This support ensures that consumers in all regions of the nation have access to and pay rates for telecommunications services that are reasonably comparable to those in urban areas. The High Cost Program is by far the largest and most complex of the four programs. The net goal of the program is to keep telephone service affordable for customers in areas where, absent the subsidy, telephone service would be dramatically more expensive than the national average. The complex system of fees, surcharges and subsidies supports telephone companies in rural and remote areas.

Low Income - This support program provides discounts that make basic, local telephone service affordable for millions of low-income consumers. The Low-Income section of the Universal Service Fund is broken down into two programs. One program is known as Link-Up America and assists consumers with the installation costs of phone service. Link-Up program pays up to $30 of the telephone service installation fees, and provides up to $200 of one year, interest-free loans for any additional installation costs. The other is the Lifeline program. Lifeline Assistance provides discounts on basic monthly service at the primary residence for qualified telephone subscribers. These discounts can be up to $10.00 per month, depending on the location. Along with these programs subscribers living on tribal lands may qualify for additional discounts. Residents of Native American Indian and Alaska Native tribal communities may qualify for enhanced Lifeline assistance (up to an additional $25.00) and expanded Link-Up support (up to an additional $70.00). Eligibility may vary from state to state. States with their own programs may have their own eligibility guidelines. For states that rely solely on the federal Lifeline and Link-Up program eligibility criteria, subscribers must either have an income that is at or below 135% of the federal Poverty Guidelines, or participate in other assistance programs. On January 31, 2012, the Federal Communications Commission approved an order changing parts of the Universal Service Fund (USF) known as the "Lifeline Program" to reduce fraud and abuse.[15][16]

Rural Health Care - This program provides subsidies for “tele-health and tele-medicine,” typically a combination of video-conferencing infrastructure and high speed Internet access, to enable doctors and patients in rural hospitals to access specialists in distant cities at affordable rates.

Schools & Libraries - This program, also known as E-Rate, provides subsidies for Internet access, telecommunications services, internal infrastructure and basic maintenance of internal connections to schools and libraries. The subsidies pay a percentage of costs based on need, with rural and low-income schools receiving the greatest subsidy. This support goes to service providers that provide discounts from 20% to 90% based on the level of poverty and the urban/rural status of the population served. Eligible schools, school districts, and libraries may apply individually or as part of a consortium, and must provide the hardware and software elements that are necessary to utilize the connectivity.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:04:22 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
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quote:

When insurance companies start setting the prices, then yes, they do have that responsibility. If you control both doors....


Which prices are you talking about? If you are talking about health care price, I would agree with you (why did we let them have a say in the first place).


quote:

That you will have to explain considering those they fought against were people they would never insure to begin with.


Because they feared having to insure people that would be sure money losers. They probably looked at how much money they were likely to lose and decided from there.


quote:

Expenses set by the same companies denying care. I have no confusion on the issue. I feel insurance companies should be there to protect against the unusual... termites, hurricanes, fires, theft. Seeing a PCP for a well check up isnt an "unusual".


Exactly! Health insurance is for when you are in an auto accident and are going to spend the next six months in the hospital hooked up to money sucking machines… not for when you get your yearly check-up at the doctor’s office. Yet too many people think and expect health insurance should pay for everything health related.


quote:

Yes, they lose money... while paying it out the back end to the managers and CEOs. Access to physicians is blocked to anyone who is poor and has no health insurance. How many insurance companies are in partnership or own physician groups? How many have invested into hospital systems?

Health care is different than health insurance... health insurance has invaded health care. You can no longer separate the two.


Then it’s time to separate the two, isn’t it?


quote:

Something Obama is trying to obtain because, without insurance, you cannot obtain health care. Again, its impossible to separate the two.


It’s impossible if you don’t have insurance and if you are poor. But then, if you are poor, it is not easy to afford the health insurance either.

quote:

Yet you arent complaining about the scam of Medicare... not that I think its a scam, I dont. But its government interference, according to you.


When did I ever call Medicare a scam? When did I say that it was government interference?


quote:

Im not bitching. Posting the facts behind a discussion is now bitching?


It is if they are not relevant to the discussion, which is what to do about the lack of access to health care… not whether such a lack exists or not.

quote:

Interesting.


Very interesting… very interesting indeed.


quote:

So screw the people of one state if its full of Medicare or rich and they dont feel they need a public plan?

Im sorry, youc ant please everyone. Guess you will have to suck it up.


I would leave it up to them to deal with the situation themselves. I refuse to be so condescendingly arrogant as to believe that my way is the only way for every one. I truly believe in freedom and democracy and that means respecting other people’s choices even if I don’t agree with them. Freedom and democracy can be messy, even ugly, sometimes but the alternative is far, far, worse.

quote:

Pst... Obama convinced many people with this promise. While it did not deliver what I had hoped it would, its better than the alternative.


Pst… no he wasn’t. He was elected primarily because George Bush had tainted the Republican Party. How many decades now have people been trying to get a national health care system and failing?

quote:

Unless, of course, you dont mind paying for everyone elses hospital bills.


Under the current system or under a national (or state) health care system some people are going to be paying the hospital bills of others… so what is the difference?


< Message edited by Marc2b -- 4/3/2012 12:17:36 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:12:53 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Did you read this article?



Did you notice the opening line? "An obscure federal program ..."








_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:22:29 PM   
Musicmystery


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So in short, no, you didn't.

You didn't even read my post. This is a long standing PHONE program--obscure at that. A recent cell phone company initiative jumped in to what it clearly hopes is a new market. It is hardly "free service" as implied in the quote you copied.

911 service, a $10 phone, and 68 free minutes a month--then they can buy more minutes. They'd be FAR better off with a land line.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:44:18 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is a long standing PHONE program--obscure at that.


Instituted by whom and for whom?

In relevant part, as posted by kali -

... provides a free cell phone and a limited number of voice minutes each month for low-income-eligible families (one per family) ... It is funded through the Universal Service Fund that almost every US taxpayer contributes to via their existing land-line and wireless service provider

There it is again. Jack pays more so Jill can have access.







_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:44:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

So Catholic hospitals have always been Taxpayer funded? Really?


Dude, try looking at the here and now. Yesterday is gone. Its great to sit back and bitch and moan about what should have been, what could have been, what was meant to be....

Reality is, we are getting screwed.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:50:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
quote:

The problem isn't that these people are uninsured. No, seriously. I'm going to requote your dead on accurate statement.

The problem IS that people are uninsured. It shouldnt be, but it is. It wasnt meant to be, but thats the end result. In order to survive any illness now, you have to have insurance or money.
Who does that leave out? You know the answer.


Good God, get off it. Why do you need insurance? Hmmm? Why? I'll even answer it for you. Because health care is so fucking expensive. That's why. What would happen, do you think, if health care was less expensive? Would it be more affordable, regardless of your income? Hells-fucking-yes it would. Obamacare isn't making anything more affordable. All Obamacare does is shift the expensive cost to others. Thus, it makes it more affordable to some and more expensive to others. And, tazzygirl, that sure the fuck doesn't address the fucking problem: health care is too fucking expensive.

quote:

quote:

The solution isn't to charge someone else. That's just treating the symptom. That doesn't even pretend to go after the underlying issue of basic health care being too expensive. Outside of Constitutionality of the Individual Mandate, I oppose Obamacare because it doesn't address the issue. It simply shifts costs to someone else and kicks that can down the road for someone else to deal with.

And because you have not read the law, because you only see what people in power want you to see about the law, because its not been published all the requirements and benefits within the law, you have no clue what you are talking about.


Who the fuck are the "people in power?" The fucking ones who passed the fucking law are the ones who are in power. Do you know why they haven't published all the requirements and benefits? Because they haven't read the fucking law, either.

quote:

Allow me to help you out. Part of every person's wages goes towards training physicians.... every person who works pays into that fund. Yet, how many are blocked from seeing a physician?
Think it out... every working person pays for the training of every american trained physician.
Yet, every working person isnt able to see a physician.
And you want to complain about unconstitutionality?


Yes, dammit, I am going to complain about unconstitutionality. You don't think the way it is now is Constitutional? Then change it so it is Constitutional. Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right?" Guess what, two unConstitutional things don't make things Constitutional.

I have nothing personally against you tazzygirl. Nothing. But, good Lord, woman. Get a clue. The only reason there is insurance is to spread costs across a risk group. Within that group, there will be those who pay in more than they use and some who pay in less than they use.

Forcing people to participate is unConstitutional.

Answer this, tazzygirl: If the Federal Government has the authority to force you to purchase health insurance against your will, where does their power to force you to do stuff end?

How about they stop regulating the shit out of everything? Remove the monopoly the AMA has in certifying physicians. Allow people to choose who they are going to see and mandate that full disclosure is followed. Same with all the FDA regulations. As long as there is full disclosure, why shouldn't I be able to buy what the fuck ever I want to buy? If I want to buy raw milk, why can't I? As long as I am choosing to drink/use raw milk, who am I hurting? If the milk makes me sick and/or die, it's either on me or it's on the dairy (depending on the way it's set up).

Where does the tyranny end?

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 12:55:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Exactly! Health insurance is for when you are in an auto accident and are going to spend the next six months in the hospital hooked up to money sucking machines… not for when you get your yearly check-up at the doctor’s office. Yet too many people think and expect health insurance should pay for everything health related.


7.50 an hour... you do the math. Here is where you are in error.... people are complaining that their health care isnt free. They are complaining that it isnt affordable. Pull out that little plastic card from an insurance company and you have a co pay for that visit. Dont have one? That will be at least 150.

quote:

quote:

Health care is different than health insurance... health insurance has invaded health care. You can no longer separate the two.


Then it’s time to separate the two, isn’t it?


Im all ears. How. You have the questions, come up with the solutions. How DO we get insurance companies out of hospitals, physician groups and the likes.

quote:

It’s impossible if you don’t have insurance and if you are poor. But then, if you are poor, it is not easy to afford the health insurance either.


Now that you have seen the obvious, what many of the rest of us see.... Any solutions?

quote:

It is if they are not relevant to the discussion, which is what to do about the lack of access to health care… not whether such a lack exists or not.


You cannot discuss how to fix something until you understand why it needs fixing.

quote:

I would leave it up to them to deal with the situation themselves. I refuse to be so condescendingly arrogant as to believe that my way is the only way for every one. I truly believe in freedom and democracy and that means respecting other people’s choices even if I don’t agree with them. Freedom and democracy can be messy, even ugly, sometimes but the alternative is far, far, worse.


Thats the problem, we have left it up to them. And look where we are now.

quote:

Pst… no he wasn’t. He was elected primarily because George Bush had tainted the Republican Party. How many decades now have people been trying to get a national health care system and failing?


How many decades did it take to pass the Food Stamp program? Obama's biggest task he proposed was health care reform. If you think that didnt have a lot to do with his election numbers, you need to talk to more people.

quote:

Under the current system or under a national (or state) health care system some people are going to be paying the hospital bills of others… so what is the difference?


Because, under the current system, people simply walk away from their bills, or lose their homes and savings to pay for their illnesses. Under a national health care system, everyone pitches in.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:02:24 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

So Catholic hospitals have always been Taxpayer funded? Really?


Dude, try looking at the here and now. Yesterday is gone.

Reality is, we are getting screwed.



Yes, we are. How did it happen?

Here's one guy explaining how it happened. Seems about right.

Welcome to the new normal.

_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

“Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf.” - George Orwell

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:05:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Good God, get off it. Why do you need insurance? Hmmm? Why? I'll even answer it for you. Because health care is so fucking expensive. That's why. What would happen, do you think, if health care was less expensive? Would it be more affordable, regardless of your income? Hells-fucking-yes it would. Obamacare isn't making anything more affordable. All Obamacare does is shift the expensive cost to others. Thus, it makes it more affordable to some and more expensive to others. And, tazzygirl, that sure the fuck doesn't address the fucking problem: health care is too fucking expensive.


Again, live in the present, not the past. Health care IS expensive. Why? Because of the greed of those investing in insurance companies, HMO's and the like. But, I do guarentee you that the health care law is just the first step towards national care.

quote:

Who the fuck are the "people in power?" The fucking ones who passed the fucking law are the ones who are in power. Do you know why they haven't published all the requirements and benefits? Because they haven't read the fucking law, either.


Dude, calm down, you are going to have a stroke. Fucking this and fucking that.

The people in power are the politicians who told you what was in it without even reading it themselves. Have you read it? I have.

quote:

I have nothing personally against you tazzygirl. Nothing. But, good Lord, woman. Get a clue. The only reason there is insurance is to spread costs across a risk group. Within that group, there will be those who pay in more than they use and some who pay in less than they use.


No, the initial purpose of insurance was that. The end result is to rake in the money, cut the experiences and drop people who are suddenly too cost prohibitive to cover anymore.

quote:

Answer this, tazzygirl: If the Federal Government has the authority to force you to purchase health insurance against your will, where does their power to force you to do stuff end?


You are forced to pay into FICA, you are forced to pay your taxes, you are forced to pay excise taxes, you are forced to have an idetification that you pay for. You are forced to pay for a lot of things.

quote:

How about they stop regulating the shit out of everything? Remove the monopoly the AMA has in certifying physicians.


Now you come to my point. Do you know who pays for the residency programs in the US?

quote:

Allow people to choose who they are going to see and mandate that full disclosure is followed.


Full disclosure of what? The cost? They will tell you that when you call to make an appointment.

quote:

Same with all the FDA regulations. As long as there is full disclosure, why shouldn't I be able to buy what the fuck ever I want to buy? If I want to buy raw milk, why can't I? As long as I am choosing to drink/use raw milk, who am I hurting? If the milk makes me sick and/or die, it's either on me or it's on the dairy (depending on the way it's set up).


Because, if you get sick from raw milk, then the system kicks in and you are treated at a hospital on the tax payers dime if you dont have insurance.

Find a way to allow hospitals to opt out of emergency treatment and you might have a plausible argument.

quote:

Where does the tyranny end?


In health care? When we get back to insurance being a luxury and not a necessity for living.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:10:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

So Catholic hospitals have always been Taxpayer funded? Really?


Dude, try looking at the here and now. Yesterday is gone.

Reality is, we are getting screwed.



Yes, we are. How did it happen?

Here's one guy explaining how it happened. Seems about right.

Welcome to the new normal.


How about we get past the "how" and deal with the here and now. I witnessed the how. Over and over. As group after group bought up and closed down hospitals, making their group bigger and badder, setting prices skyrocketing.

How do you now dissolve those?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia/HCA

What do you do with a corporation like that? This is who is setting the prices. This is who is ensuring that people cannot afford health care.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:18:15 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

Because I have to pay for your little bastards to go to school.


I don't have children but have no problem kicking in for public schools as I consider that part of the Public Good.

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:18:34 PM   
Yachtie


Posts: 3593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Where does the tyranny end?


In health care? When we get back to insurance being a luxury and not a necessity for living.


Tazzy, you just shot your whole foot off with that one. Healthcare need not be expensive. What makes anything expensive and keeps it that way is when one forces cost shifting.

What was it you said?!?! Dude, try looking at the here and now. Yesterday is gone.

You're right, yesterday got cost shifted by mandate onto the backs of our children. What ideology propagated it? Hmmm?


_____________________________

“We all know it’s going to end badly, but in the meantime we can make some money.” - Jim Cramer, CNBC

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:20:55 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
The idea that propegates it is anything less than universal healthcare.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: The truth about those against the Affordable Health... - 4/3/2012 1:27:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Tazzy, you just shot your whole foot off with that one. Healthcare need not be expensive. What makes anything expensive and keeps it that way is when one forces cost shifting.

What was it you said?!?! Dude, try looking at the here and now. Yesterday is gone.

You're right, yesterday got cost shifted by mandate onto the backs of our children. What ideology propagated it? Hmmm


No dear. Its expensive. Now what?

You are trying to turn back the clock.. aint gonna happen.

quote:

Overall, the chief executives were paid well: Nine of 12 health care trade associations paid their CEOs compensation of $1 million or more, including bonuses, deferred compensation and other benefits, according to tax records for 2009. (Tax-exempt groups must file annually with the IRS on a form 990, which is available to the public. The data typically lags a year.) Lobbyists at the associations received compensation in the range of $250,000 to more than $1 million.


http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2011/January/05/health-care-executive-pay.aspx

And then there is this...

The South Carolina Supreme Court has ordered an insurance company to pay $10 million for wrongly revoking the insurance policy of a 17-year-old college student after he tested positive for HIV. The court called the 2002 decision by the insurance company "reprehensible."

I can guarantee you that the policy holders of that company are paying for that judgement. You want to blame cost shifting. There are far more forces to blame than that one.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Yachtie)
Profile   Post #: 80
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